Another side of the Iraqi war

[henry#14]

An Iraqi friend of mine told me today that his mum phoned back to Iraq last night and this this is what had happened to the relatives he had there who hadn't moved to Syria. His whole family is Christian, and are therefore disliked by the local "rebels". apparently a group of muslims thugs came to their house and wanted to rob them, they resisted and were shot; the 9 nine year old kid was fatally wounded, the old man was shot twice in the arm and broke it when he fell and the wife was heavily assaulted and is now in a coma. the only survivor able to tell what happened was the father. He also told them of family friends who were stopped while driving, asked if they were christian, to which they replied 'yes' and were immediately locked in their car and burned alive.

Sorry if a mod wanted this in another thread, but I didn't want it to just fade away in some 50+ page thread.

This seriously shocked me. Also the purpose of this thread is not for some ignoramus to come and start attacking all Iraqis and Muslims, so if that's what you want to do just don't post.

 

[Gareth]

That's terrible

Even with troops there this goes on, imagine what it was like before the toops were there, these things would go on and nobody would even know.

 

[Elder]

Originally posted by Gareth
That's terrible

Even with troops there this goes on, imagine what it was like before the toops were there, these things would go on and nobody would even know.

No way... Saddam was an angel and wouldn't ever let such atrocities happen in his country. I mean come on, there was lots of religous tolerance in Iraq!!

5 Christian churches were also bombed the other day. And today Zarqawi pledged his allegiance to Bin Laden... but as some will argue around here, those two were rivals and could never have ties together... and if they did, it's the US's fault.

Either way, this story is probably just one of hundreds that goes unreported over there. Just like the hundreds of good stories that go unreported.

 

[PhiLLer]

Originally posted by Elder
No way... Saddam was an angel and wouldn't ever let such atrocities happen in his country. I mean come on, there was lots of religous tolerance in Iraq!!

5 Christian churches were also bombed the other day. And today Zarqawi pledged his allegiance to Bin Laden... but as some will argue around here, those two were rivals and could never have ties together... and if they did, it's the US's fault.

Either way, this story is probably just one of hundreds that goes unreported over there. Just like the hundreds of good stories that go unreported.

Lol, you're funny.

 

[rhizome17]

Elder and Gareth, your ignorance is quite stunning at times. Next time, before you post, why don't you actually take the time to do some research - that way you don't look so ignorant.

THe fact is, these events are occurring MORE now that the troops are there. ANd it is not simply that they are christian, it is because christianity is identified with the americans. These sorts of things did not happen on the scale they do now, because until the first Gulf War the regime was a secular one. It was only post 1991 that Saddam began a pro-Islamic rhetoric, and there are cases where Christians were attacked. Were they on the scale they are now? No. And anti-christian sentiment was always couched in terms of its relationship with the US.

Saddam was always far harsher on the Shiites muslims than he was on christians. And Tariq Aziz, the Deputy Prime Minister, was himself a Christian. GIven that, is it likely these things were occurring on a large scale like they are now? No. THey are occurring as a direct consequence of the power vacuum that has been left in the wake of the ill-thought-out war.

henry#14 has posted something that he feels strongly about, and you guys just come in spouting your ignorance. Same old, same old. Just do some research, for your own sakes.

 

[Elder]

Originally posted by rhizome17
Elder and Gareth, your ignorance is quite stunning at times. Next time, before you post, why don't you actually take the time to do some research - that way you don't look so ignorant.

THe fact is, these events are occurring MORE now that the troops are there. ANd it is not simply that they are christian, it is because christianity is identified with the americans. These sorts of things did not happen on the scale they do now, because until the first Gulf War the regime was a secular one. It was only post 1991 that Saddam began a pro-Islamic rhetoric, and there are cases where Christians were attacked. Were they on the scale they are now? No. And anti-christian sentiment was always couched in terms of its relationship with the US.

Saddam was always far harsher on the Shiites muslims than he was on christians. And Tariq Aziz, the Deputy Prime Minister, was himself a Christian. GIven that, is it likely these things were occurring on a large scale like they are now? No. THey are occurring as a direct consequence of the power vacuum that has been left in the wake of the ill-thought-out war.

henry#14 has posted something that he feels strongly about, and you guys just come in spouting your ignorance. Same old, same old. Just do some research, for your own sakes.

Wake up Rhizome. Christians aren't being bombed because of a "power vacuum." They are being bombed out of religous hatred by Muslim fanatics. They are directly linked to one man, who pledged his allegience to Osama bin Laden. This certain man was in Baghdad, and in Iraq before the war began training terrorists. (insert typical Rhizome response of "saddam didn't have control over him" line here)

As for Saddam, there are many mass graves pictures we can pull up that shows his "tolerance." In fact, they just found another one recently... but I am sure you will find a way to blame the US for that one won't you?

You're so tiresome.

 

[Virgo]

haha you're such a tool Elder

 

[rony31]

I wanna say "**** all Iraqi muslims who do this ****", but I'm afraid I'm gonna offend someone

it's morons like these that make me glad I'm living safely in Canada... it also makes me realize why my entire community consists of Iraqi Christians and barely any Iraqi Muslims... I hope all these ****ers burn in hell

 

[Elder]

Originally posted by Virgo
haha you're such a tool Elder

Thanks Virgo. Coming from someone who actually thinks Arafat is a peaceful man really means something to me. It's like winning the Nobel Peace prize all for myself.

 

[Elder]

Originally posted by rony31
I wanna say "**** all Iraqi muslims who do this ****", but I'm afraid I'm gonna offend someone

it's morons like these that make me glad I'm living safely in Canada... it also makes me realize why my entire community consists of Iraqi Christians and barely any Iraqi Muslims... I hope all these ****ers burn in hell

You will certainly offend the elitist snobs around here with that post, that's for sure.

But you make one mistake in thinking that the people who did this are Iraqi's. And going back to the religious "tolerance" that Iraq had... If you look at the numbers, I am quite sure there were very few Christians or other religous people who were even in Iraq to be tolerant of. They left long ago...

 

[Virgo]

Originally posted by Elder
Thanks Virgo. Coming from someone who actually thinks Arafat is a peaceful man really means something to me. It's like winning the Nobel Peace prize all for myself.

:boohoo:

 

[Elder]

Originally posted by Virgo
:boohoo:

It doesn't surprise me that your sig has two of the biggest divers in the sport today either... wanker.

 

[Virgo]

Originally posted by Elder
It doesn't surprise me that your sig has two of the biggest divers in the sport today either... wanker.

such an intelligent remark

 

[Elder]

Originally posted by Virgo
such an intelligent remark

Since you support a known terrorist in Arafat, it just makes sense that you would support cheaters who play the game of football.

 

[Hendrik]

Originally posted by Elder
It doesn't surprise me that your sig has two of the biggest divers in the sport today either.

Yeah you tell him

 

[Virgo]

Originally posted by Elder
Since you support a known terrorist in Arafat, it just makes sense that you would support cheaters who play the game of football.

just shut up man or do I have to shut you up with facts in every thread.

It's getting old and annoying.

 

[rhizome17]

Originally posted by Elder
Wake up Rhizome. Christians aren't being bombed because of a "power vacuum." They are being bombed out of religous hatred by Muslim fanatics. They are directly linked to one man, who pledged his allegience to Osama bin Laden. This certain man was in Baghdad, and in Iraq before the war began training terrorists. (insert typical Rhizome response of "saddam didn't have control over him" line here)

As for Saddam, there are many mass graves pictures we can pull up that shows his "tolerance." In fact, they just found another one recently... but I am sure you will find a way to blame the US for that one won't you?

You're so tiresome.

Where did I say he was tolerant of all religions? NOWHERE. I already pointed out the fact that he oppressed the Shiite muslims, and if you cared to listen to anyone else you would see that. The mass graves - were they chrisitans? No. Other muslims. Your problem is that you spout mass generalisations that have no basis in reality. Why don't you just go and do some research before you post such things? Because if you want to be taken seriously it would be a good idea. As long as you continue to push things that are not even close to being facts, there is no way anyone here can take you seriously.

You find me anything that shows Saddam promoted attacks on Christians to the extent they are happening today. The fact remains that Saddam tolerated christianity, why would he make one his deputy or will you conveniently ignore that. He tolerated it to the extent he needed their support, especially in the north amongst the anti-Saddam Kurds.

And you make my point anyway - THERE IS A POWER VACUUM. Otherwise the attacks wouldn't be happening, would they You write without thinking.

 

[Elder]

Originally posted by Virgo
just shut up man or do I have to shut you up with facts in every thread.

It's getting old and annoying.

Fact: You support a terrorist by the name of Yasser Arafat

Fact: Luis Figo spends more time sitting on the Real Madrid pitch after a nice dive than he does running across it.

Fact: Baby Ronaldo dives quite a lot in England... it's in the Portugese culture to cheat while playing football. Just ask Ferreria who admitted as much before he started his career at Chelsea.

Now shut the **** up already.

 

[Elder]

Originally posted by rhizome17
Where did I say he was tolerant of all religions? NOWHERE. I already pointed out the fact that he oppressed the Shiite muslims, and if you cared to listen to anyone else you would see that. The mass graves - were they chrisitans? No. Other muslims. Your problem is that you spout mass generalisations that have no basis in reality. Why don't you just go and do some research before you post such things? Because if you want to be taken seriously it would be a good idea. As long as you continue to push things that are not even close to being facts, there is no way anyone here can take you seriously.

You find me anything that shows Saddam promoted attacks on Christians to the extent they are happening today. The fact remains that Saddam tolerated christianity, why would he make one his deputy or will you conveniently ignore that. He tolerated it to the extent he needed their support, especially in the north amongst the anti-Saddam Kurds.

And you make my point anyway - THERE IS A POWER VACUUM. Otherwise the attacks wouldn't be happening, would they You write without thinking.

So according to your logic, there must be a "power vacuum" anywhere in the world where there are terrorist attacks. They are orchestrated attacks to get the attention of the news media and left wing fools to spread their propoganda and hate. These attacks happen all over the world, and it doesn't take a power vacuum for them to happen. I bet if Iraq was a completely reformed country with government control over everything, these people could still slip in and out quite easily. If the people of Fallujah wanted the terrorists out, they would kick them out. But the governor or whoever of Fallujah refused to hand Zarqawi over which is why Fallujah is being bombed at this very time. That doesn't sound like a power vacuum to me...

And how do you know that no Christians were part of the mass graves? I know you think are God's gift to knowledge since you are NEVER wrong, but that's a pretty bold statement. I do believe it was you who said once that Saddam was tolerant of religion in his "secular" country. It could have been someone else, but you all sound the same on these boards it's hard to keep you all straight.

And about tolerating Christianity... how many Christians are in Iraq? Not many... therefore, not very hard to "tolerate" them. But your side seems to have a problem admitting that Saddam "tolerated" terrorists, so why do I bother?

 

[rhizome17]

Originally posted by Elder
So according to your logic, there must be a "power vacuum" anywhere in the world where there are terrorist attacks. They are orchestrated attacks to get the attention of the news media and left wing fools to spread their propoganda and hate. These attacks happen all over the world, and it doesn't take a power vacuum for them to happen. I bet if Iraq was a completely reformed country with government control over everything, these people could still slip in and out quite easily. If the people of Fallujah wanted the terrorists out, they would kick them out. But the governor or whoever of Fallujah refused to hand Zarqawi over which is why Fallujah is being bombed at this very time. That doesn't sound like a power vacuum to me...

And how do you know that no Christians were part of the mass graves? I do believe it was you who said once that Saddam was tolerant of religion in his "secular" country. It could have been someone else, but you all sound the same on these boards it's hard to keep you all straight.

And about tolerating Christianity... how many Christians are in Iraq? Not many... therefore, not very hard to "tolerate" them. But your side seems to have a problem admitting that Saddam "tolerated" terrorists, so why do I bother?

No, again you have it wrong.

How many christians are there in Iraq? Approximately 600,000, or around three per cent of the population. Now that is still quite a number given it is a part of the world populated by muslims, isn't it. How many muslims live in the US? Around 5 million - a per centage much less than christians in Iraq.

Onto the issue of Christians under Saddam. Why do you keep ignoring the fact Tariq Aziz was a Christian? As a matter of fact, the Shia rebellion against Saddam in Basra in 1991 began with attacks on CHristian institutions. Again, GO AND READ UP ON IT before spouting your nonsense.

And as a secular regime, I have already pointed out that Saddams government oppressed the Shia - are yopu unable to make the distinction between the overwhelmingly poor Shia and the Sunni-controlled regime? Or are all muslims the same to you - it would appear so.

Heck, even the Middle East Forum, which promotes American interests in the middle east, has all of this information available. Go and look. At the moment you are full of misoconceptions.

And why in hell can't you recognise a power vacuum when you see one? If there wasn't, how does a group take control of an entire city? Fact remians, there is no popular consensus on the central government. Show me who has complete control of the country, and I will admit there isn't a power vacuum. But as long as entire cities can be taken by a group, it is pretty ovbious to stage one political science students even that there is a power vacuum. By definition, a power vacuum is an expression for a political situation that can occur when a government has no identifiable central authority. Sounds like Iraq to me.