Arsenal F.C. Thread [2011/12]

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Mandieta6

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We'll see about Wilshere. He had one great season and will now miss at least 18 continuous months. Arsenal have a good midfield, I'm not entirely sure, even if he does return to full fitness by midseason, that he could break into the squad (considering that Arsenal will probably need all tbe points they can get at that point for the CL battle, or maybe title battle). I think we won't see the good Wilshere back until next season, actually. Sort of like Essien, this is the season he needs to get back to form or he probably never will (Wilshere's case insn't as drastic, obviously, but still).
 

Filipower

Bunburyist
I prefer Gervinho to Podolski too. And Shifty I wouldn't call them wasteful signings because if if Sahin goes to Arsenal and van Persie stays, than those buys could give Arsenal a much needed thing when all the inevitable injuries come storming down: a decent bench!
 

poet11

Oh and tits.
I'd rather Poldi as striker to be honest. I really don't think Theo and Poldi both at the same time down the wings is a good idea-specially if RVP leaves. He is a top signing given his experience and versatility.

I am pretty hopeful of Gervinho having a good 2nd season as well. He would have been 2nd top scorer had he been able to finish his chances- he is so incredibly awesome at getting into positions but so incredibly frustrating with his finishing.

bdw, Arsene has hinted at the possibility of 4-4-2 with Giroud as target man. Wouldn't be too bad against too defensive opposition tbf. We kinda struggle when we are limited to crosses from wide into the box.I really can't remember the last time we had so many options and so much depth.

And yeah RvP really should stay. He said he hasn't even discussed financial terms and the reason was ambition- Podolski,Giroud,Cazorla and hopefully Sahin is pretty ******* ambitious.
 

Xifio

The Von Trapps
Mandieta6;3282158 said:
We'll see about Wilshere. He had one great season and will now miss at least 18 continuous months. Arsenal have a good midfield, I'm not entirely sure, even if he does return to full fitness by midseason, that he could break into the squad (considering that Arsenal will probably need all tbe points they can get at that point for the CL battle, or maybe title battle). I think we won't see the good Wilshere back until next season, actually. Sort of like Essien, this is the season he needs to get back to form or he probably never will (Wilshere's case insn't as drastic, obviously, but still).
you seem to hold the opinion that players need a lot of time to get back to the top, which just isn't a rule ... Essien may be broken, but comparing two cases doesn't make sense ... Jovetić missed a whole season, and immediately picked up where he left off upon his return ...

until a player returns and then plays poorly, one can only judge their ability on the performances they have displayed before the layoff ...
 

Mandieta6

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You're saying that because of the draft. Obviously some players return at a top level, but they need a few matches to get match fitness back, at least. It's one thing for the best player at a midtable club to get those chances, but completely different for that to happen at a top levwl clib competing for titles, which can't afford to have 10 and a half platers on thw pitxh normally.

Jovetic is an exception. Underlined by how the narrative surrounding his return has been one of surprise regardig his return to form.
 

Xifio

The Von Trapps
Mandieta6;3282340 said:
You're saying that because of the draft.
sure ... coz there's no way I chose as I did in the draft based on the fact I believe what I said in my previous post beforehand ... :rolleyes:



Mandieta6;3282340 said:
Obviously some players return at a top level, but they need a few matches to get match fitness back, at least.
a few matches? definitely! but a few months? definitely nothing definite about that at all ...



Mandieta6;3282340 said:
Jovetic is an exception. Underlined by how the narrative surrounding his return has been one of surprise regardig his return to form.
uhh, what? :confused2:
 

Mandieta6

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Those few matches can easily become a few months for a player like Wilshere who would have very able players, several at this level, perhaps even better, competing for the same spot, at a team that would be facing do-or-die moments as they fight for a CL spot or the title. Playing Jovetic, who is head and shoulders above his teammates, is minium risk for maximum reward. Which is why he's an exception and not the rule.

And I remember reading people saying that they were surprised at how well Jovetic has been doing, and that they thought he'd take much longer to return to form.

Also:

Xifio;3133782 said:
^ one always worries, after such a long injury, whether a player would return the same ... glad "Yoyo" hasn't lost any of his ability

You being glad would imply it was a pleasant surprise. Also, there you go. One always worries a player won't be as good when he returns, which was exactly what I was saying about Wilshere. So yes, I do think you're just saying that because of the draft.
 

Xifio

The Von Trapps
Wilshere will be straight back into the XI when he returns to full fitness ...

and I was expressing my anxiety about, and my relief upon, Jojo's successful return ... not surprise ...
 

Filipower

Bunburyist
Xifio;3282405 said:
and I was expressing my anxiety about, and my relief upon, Jojo's successful return


Didn't even know she was injured!

 

Mandieta6

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Xifio;3282405 said:
Wilshere will be straight back into the XI when he returns to full fitness ...

and I was expressing my anxiety about, and my relief upon, Jojo's successful return ... not surprise ...

Relief beause you were afraid he wouldn't return at the top of his abilities, same point.

And that's not a certainty, it never is.
 

Xifio

The Von Trapps
I agree ... there is always a concern ... but that doesn't make it logicial to assume anything -- one way or the other ... until a player returns, I judge his ability on what he showed before the injury ... on that basis, Wilshere would walk right into Arsenal's starting XI ...
 

Mandieta6

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You see why I'm saying that you're saying this because of the draft? Because you're discussing how we should evaluate these players' ability, and that wasn't my point at all. I'm not arguing Wilshere's ability, or that he would return to that level of ability when he comes back from injury. I'm talking about how long that would take, and my stance is that it would take longer than you think.

Again, if we were having this discussion in a few month's time when the draft is over... well, we wouldn't.
 

Xifio

The Von Trapps
I thought you meant I'm rating Wilshere because of the draft ... I talked about ability coz you mention "good Wilshere" ...

but otherwise, yeah, I probably wouldn't have bothered coming in here to discuss the issue of return from injury ...
 

poet11

Oh and tits.
If Carlos would walk straight into the starting 11 we would have to wait and see. We don't know what the injuries have done to him and he was still very much developing. There is the example of Rosicky who was completely out of sorts for a long time after his return from the mysterious lengthy lay off and then there is Van Persie scoring or assisting in almost every game after returning from pretty long injuries.

Good thing is that this time around we are being proactive rather than gambling on this by looking at Sahin. That would ease the pressure on Carlos to return to full fitness and form.

We should seriously consider investigating why the hell players become injury prone so frequently at Arsenal. There is something not right with the medical staff or training/conditioning/diet etc-the rate at which injuries pile up every season it just can't be bad luck. We will never be able to bring some consistency in our game if we are struggling with fitness all the time. Last season there was this time when we were in title winning form and we had everyone in the first 11 apart from Carlos fit. That period was probably the only time we were able to field almost all the first choice players for more than 2 games in ages. I think we miss at least 2/3/4 first choice players every week usually.
 
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