Brazilian wonderkid Kerlon and his SEAL DRIBBLE

[Luis Ah-Hoy]

No, it actually is because they are the most experienced and have a good defense. Talent counts, definitely, but Emerson and Gilberto Silva are going to be just as important as anyone else in the team and they don't exactly play Samba style. Neither does Lucio. And honestly, I wouldn't agree that Brazil is the most talented at all. To me England and Spain probably have more talent. If you just go based on recent success, those are the favorites, however you can't ignore Brazil won in 2002 with a similar squad that is now 4 years more experienced, so therefore they are the favorites

Brazil are the most experienced? So you got to a very complex conclusion, i must say... plz explain us how... how the hell do you measure and compare the experience between the NT's?

Lúcio doesn't play Samba style.... he's just a defender that used to dribble past the opposition, some 2-3 times per NT game... i don't know if he still does it as well as b4, but that's not relevant at all... Lúcio, Gilberto and Emerson are not meant to do any Samba... but Brazilian's forwards are... and they will!

Furthermore, i don't agree that Brazil are HOT FAVOURITES because they have a good defense and experience... because having a good defense is a must for any team that aspires the WC (and even some of the under-dogs have a very good defense also)... and many NT's there, have good defenses (even better than Brazil's), and lots of experience too... so, that's not really the reason...

England more talented than Brazil... lol... yeah... maybe... who knows! :funny:
As for Spain... i guess not even the spanish members at the forum will agree with you... at least most of them, the wise ones...

I think it's strange that someone from Mozambique is cheering for Portugal. I would have guessed that you guys would have a deep resentment for the Portuguese. Guess not.

At last you got something right... :fool:

Kibe Kru is quickly becoming my favorite poster in the Soccer Forum.

Tell me something that i don't know...

 

[Kibe Kru]

Brazil are the most experienced? So you got to a very complex conclusion, i must say... plz explain us how... how the hell do you measure and compare the experience between the NT's?

I guess he meant the squad that won in Japan/Korea is now more experienced.

Furthermore, i don't agree that Brazil are HOT FAVOURITES because they have a good defense and experience... because having a good defense is a must for any team that aspires the WC (and even some of the under-dogs have a very good defense also)... and many NT's there, have good defenses (even better than Brazil's), and lots of experience too... so, that's not really the reason...

I'm confused... If having a good defense is a must, then if Brazil didn't have a good defense they wouldn't be HOT FAVOURITES, right?
Put Marcus Vinicius and Roque Junior in that defence and you'll see how well they do.

 

[WilliamFAlmeida]

offense is the best form of defense

 

[Luis Ah-Hoy]

I guess he meant the squad that won in Japan/Korea is now more experienced.

Let's just wait and see if he confirms that...

I'm confused... If having a good defense is a must, then if Brazil didn't have a good defense they wouldn't be HOT FAVOURITES, right?
Put Marcus Vinicius and Roque Junior in that defence and you'll see how well they do.

Don't be...

If you read my post carefully, you'll notice that i'm not actually saying that "Brazil doesn't have a good defense"... i'm just saying that their defensive strenght (and their experience also), are not the main factors that makes them the HOT FAVOURITES to win the WC... their superior technique is... they have the most powerfull attack... they gave us a convincing example of that, at the Confederations Cup...

 

[Kibe Kru]

Let's just wait and see if he confirms that...

I just re-read his post and he did say that Brazil are the most experienced, so let's just wait for his post.

Don't be...

If you read my post carefully, you'll notice that i'm not actually saying that "Brazil doesn't have a good defense"... i'm just saying that their defensive strenght (and their experience also), are not the main factors that makes them the HOT FAVOURITES to win the WC... their superior technique is... they have the most powerfull attack... they gave us a convincing example of that, at the Confederations Cup...

God, I need to sleep... badly...

Sure, the difference between them and the other good teams with good defense and experience is their superior technique.... you're correct...

They do need defence and experience though...

God, I don't even know if I'm making any sense now...

advice: don't stay up all night coding something to simulate some stuff that won't work anyway because ideal situations never happen in labs...

 

[bingtin]

Getting back onto this Kerlon prick, I'd hate to see him at Manchester United, how many yellows would he get for diving when he's not actually watching where he's running? The English game is not for him, he'll go down if someone breathes down his neck. (I admit that Ronaldo and Ruud have been guilty of this in the past, which is something that I hate, as the opposition gets the ball bloody easily.)

 

[ShiftyPowers]

you can't ignore Brazil won in 2002 with a similar squad that is now 4 years more experienced, so therefore they are the favorites.

Is that enough "confirmation" for you? Because I said it in my last post.

 

[Kibe Kru]

Getting back onto this Kerlon prick, I'd hate to see him at Manchester United, how many yellows would he get for diving when he's not actually watching where he's running? The English game is not for him, he'll go down if someone breathes down his neck. (I admit that Ronaldo and Ruud have been guilty of this in the past, which is something that I hate, as the opposition gets the ball bloody easily.)

How many times have you seen him playing? Labelling him a diver already?

What does it have to do with the fact that he's not watching where he's going? a foul is a foul if I'm looking at the ball, the keeper or a hidden pr0n mag

 

[AlienSeafood]

Getting back onto this Kerlon prick, I'd hate to see him at Manchester United, how many yellows would he get for diving when he's not actually watching where he's running? The English game is not for him, he'll go down if someone breathes down his neck. (I admit that Ronaldo and Ruud have been guilty of this in the past, which is something that I hate, as the opposition gets the ball bloody easily.)

umm...can u prove that hes a diver...if ur gonna base it on the video..well, he actually got fouled n didnt dive at all...

 

[SlayerDeuS]

Why do most of the brazilian stars look pretty damn ugly..?

Trick is nice, but he looks like a moron doing it.

Argentine players are uglier, with the likes of Messi, Coloccini, Tevez, Riquelme, captain Sorin and coach Pekerman. Ugliest team of the century.

 

[AlienSeafood]

messi is quite adorable n as for the brasilians, so is kaka... :chick:

 

[Luis Ah-Hoy]

God, I need to sleep... badly...

If you say so...

Sure, the difference between them and the other good teams with good defense and experience is their superior technique.... you're correct...

They do need defence and experience though...

God, I don't even know if I'm making any sense now...

advice: don't stay up all night coding something to simulate some stuff that won't work anyway because ideal situations never happen in labs...

Yes, they do need defence and experience... did i say otherwise?

Advice: you should really try to sleep... you're right, you need it badly... then you should be able to give me some good advice...

 

[Luis Ah-Hoy]

Is that enough "confirmation" for you? Because I said it in my last post.

Nope... that's not enough for me... bcoz you're still pointing "experience" as the main factor for Brazil being considered HOT FAVOURITES... but i insist that Brazil's experience is not greater than Italy's for instance (neither is their defense)... so, what makes them the "HOT FAVOURITES" then?! It's their superior technique...

 

[ladylover]

Getting back onto this Kerlon prick, I'd hate to see him at Manchester United, how many yellows would he get for diving when he's not actually watching where he's running? The English game is not for him, he'll go down if someone breathes down his neck. (I admit that Ronaldo and Ruud have been guilty of this in the past, which is something that I hate, as the opposition gets the ball bloody easily.)

I am quite sure that if Kerlon turns out to be the next world's best footballer you will change your opinion about him in a second, you haven't seen him play, so stop hating......from what I have seen he didn't dive, so I don't understand where you got that from, you should be happy that we could be getting one of the biggest talents around

 

[Kibe Kru]

they do need defence and experience... did i say otherwise?

this time you did not, and I said you're correct... if you thought I was being sarcastic, I was not... though I'd advise against posting here if you can't distinguish sarcasm and truth.

Brazil's experience is not greater than Italy's for instance

How many times have the current italian squad won the World Cup. They're experienced in the game of football, yeah. Not on winning World Cups.

so, what makes them the "HOT FAVOURITES" then?! It's their superior technique...

Sure, there are three, and only three, factors to decide a match (and a world cup). Experience, defense and technique. (oh, and I'm being sarcastic now. see the difference to my previous post?)

 

[Luis Ah-Hoy]

How many times have the current italian squad won the World Cup. They're experienced in the game of football, yeah. Not on winning World Cups.

And who told you that experience comes from winning? Winning things, gives moral boost to the team... but experience itself, comes from playing games at the highest level... and Italy, not only have an experienced squad, they also have plenty of games at the highest level, just like Brazil... and they did thrash Germany (the Tournament hosts, and a team that always aspires the WC), not long ago, remember?

When Germany won the WC in 1954, it took them just 20 years to win it again (so, "only" 5 WC's after)... and after winning it in 1974, it took them more 16 years to win it again in 1990... Brazil won it in 1970... and only in 1994 (24 years after, they won it again!)...

So... experience from winning the previous WC it's still not enough, to justify why Brazil is regarded as the hot favourite!

Sure, there are three, and only three, factors to decide a match (and a world cup). Experience, defense and technique. (oh, and I'm being sarcastic now. see the difference to my previous post?)

Then tell us what are the other factors, that make Brazil the hot favourites, for most people, other than their superior technique...

 

[Kibe Kru]

And who told you that experience comes from winning? Winning things, gives moral boost to the team... but experience itself, comes from playing games at the highest level... and Italy, not only have an experienced squad, they also have plenty of games at the highest level, just like Brazil... and they did thrash Germany (the Tournament hosts, and a team that always aspires the WC), not long ago, remember?

Experience is not how many times you've been through some situations, but how you got through them, and how much you learn from it. If you've experienced only defeats, you still don't know what to do to win. If you've won it once, you know how it is, and you know how to deal with it. The current brazilian squad is full of players that got the title last time. I'm sure they won't be crapping in their pants in the dressing rooms with anxiety if they get there again (Ronaldo 98. Even if he was in the 94 winning squad, in 94 he was a sub. In 98 he was the top star. Pressure got to him.) I can't be that sure about anyone else. Will Italy feel the pressure? I don't know. Will Brazil? No. That's experience. They may feel the pressure of being favourites though, as Brazil haven't been such "hot favourites" for a long time.

When Germany won the WC in 1954, it took them just 20 years to win it again (so, "only" 5 WC's after)... and after winning it in 1974, it took them more 16 years to win it again in 1990... Brazil won it in 1970... and only in 1994 (24 years after, they won it again!)...

So... experience from winning the previous WC it's still not enough, to justify why Brazil is regarded as the hot favourite!

Did I say that winning a World Cup is to be sure you'll win the next? Also, was Germany's 58 squad the same as the 54? Brazil 74 was a bit different than Brazil 70. Brazil 06 is pretty much the same as Brazil 02.

Then tell us what are the other factors, that make Brazil the hot favourites, for most people, other than their superior technique...

Ask "the most people". If "the most people" believe technique is the reason for their favouritism, that's nothing to do with me. I just disagree with that.
I can only speak for myself, and I consider Brazil to be favourites because of the balance of the squad, the experience, the fast counter attacks, the "chemistry" between the players the overall quality of the players (technique included), ability to change the pace of the game (play dead, passing to the side, then getting a quick play to get the defense unprepared), among a number of other things. Is that saying that Brazil will undoubtedly win it? of course not... winning the World Cup involves a lot more than that. Luck, hard work, referees... everything plays a part.

This won't lead anywhere... you'll find a way to say "HOT FAVOURITES" and "superior technique" in your next post, I even think you're pede's grandson. I'll stop posting about the subject.

 

[ShiftyPowers]

Thanks man, I don't even have to defend myself because someone is doing it better than I could.

By the way, Germany, although they technically DID have a twenty year gap and then a sixteen year gap, reached at least the semi-finals in 1958, 1966, 1970 (so 3 of four semi finals) and then again reached the FINAL in 1982 and 1986 before the victory in 1990. Just because a team doesn't win the World Cup does not mean they were unsuccessful. Germany used their experience to reach the semi-final in 7 or 9 tournaments from 1954 to 1990. They used previous successful experiences and built on them into success in the future.

Italy does not have as much experience as Brazil. So they beat Germany in a friendly, what have they done in 2002 and 2004? Nothing. If qualifying for Tournaments and playing friendlies against Germany are your basis for experience, then I guess the United States has as much experience as Brazil too! Don't be ridiculous.

 

[Luis Ah-Hoy]

Did I say that winning a World Cup is to be sure you'll win the next? Also, was Germany's 58 squad the same as the 54? Brazil 74 was a bit different than Brazil 70. Brazil 06 is pretty much the same as Brazil 02.

Brazil took the WC in 1994. Cafu, Dunga, Leonardo, Taffarel were all WC winners, but couldn't lead the team to winning in 1998... not sure about Taffarel, but the rest were all starters for Brazil...

I wish we could just pass this part of group of players that come from a winning WC side, bla bla... this has nothing to do with the greater favouritism for the brazilian side...

ability to change the pace of the game (play dead, passing to the side, then getting a quick play to get the defense unprepared), among a number of other things. Is that saying that Brazil will undoubtedly win it? of course not... winning the World Cup involves a lot more than that. Luck, hard work, referees... everything plays a part.

I don't need to ask anything to anyone, as "most people" i know, most people i hear talking about the subject, either in real life, or in the Television, when being asked, they show they agree with MY POINT OF VIEW... so, if you want to, you can go ask "most people" about that... i'll not even bother...

And tell me something... that brazilian ability to "change the pace of the game, etc etc"... where do you think those things come from?

You speak for yourself, and sometimes you can be right, sometimes you can be wrong... i speak based on a combination of what i see and therefore what i think, what "most people" think... and really, if you ask anyone at these forums that have read some of my previous posts, they'll tell you that i'm just a pragmatic type of person... i don't go for what i want it to be, i go for what i think is the reality.... i don't like Brazil, i wish they weren't so skilled and such a dangerous attacking team, i don't want them to win the WC.... but, i do admit they're the most talented team... and that's basically the opinion of most unbiased people, all over the World... it's simple as that!

Italy does not have as much experience as Brazil. So they beat Germany in a friendly, what have they done in 2002 and 2004? Nothing. If qualifying for Tournaments and playing friendlies against Germany are your basis for experience, then I guess the United States has as much experience as Brazil too! Don't be ridiculous.

Tsc..... experience doesn't come from winning WC... experience comes from players that are used to play at the highest standards against the toughest oppositions, at club and international level... and from this point of view, both Brazil and Italy, have pretty much the same amount of experience...

and plz..... YOU don't be ridiculous and go review your concepts about "experience"...

 

[ShiftyPowers]

I'm sorry, but Italy have NOT played at the highest level internationally. They crashed out in the group stage of Euro 2004 and lost in the second round at World Cup 2002. A team that got to a final would have played MANY MORE competitive games. Translating to more experience.