"Che" Guevara

[Shindig]

Probably one of the few Guerillas actually being allowed to speak. Personally, I think he's been overblown into this pop icon.

Something that, let's face it, Che probably wouldn't have wanted.

How come he gets worshipped whilst bone-fide commies like Kim Jung Il get ridiculed?

 

[Virgo]

Because he was the true freedom fighter. He gave up all his personal life for his dream and for what he believed in and died for it. Therefore he is one of the most inspiring characters in human history.

The people that call him just another commie just show their ignorance about history. Communist regimes were seen as a blessing at the time as opposed to the totalitarian right wing governments that ruled South America.

If he was just your ordinary power thirsty leader like Fidel, he would have stayed in Cuba with a fancy position in the cuban government and enjoy his retirement and would probably still be alive. He was more popular and loved than Fidel anyhow. Some say Fidel had him killed because of it.

 

[Glorious]

Originally posted by Run DMB
Believe it or not I'm related to Dragan.

His maw knows how.

lol

Wasn't he warned that if he left he would be killed? creepy!

 

[TOON ARMY]

Originally posted by Leeds4Life
Over-hyped, brandname revolutionary.

You hit the nail on the head.

What would the poor git say now if he knew he was just a marketing exercise?

 

[Glorious]

Well he was a firebrand and he has just been cleverly marketed in his current position as a brandname for revolution.


but not a stand out man i would have to say.

 

[-William-]

Originally posted by mhflierman
He's a ****.

And that is because....?

 

[Glorious]

Originally posted by JFG_Lancer
So true i always ask people i see wearing them if they know any thing about the man and they usually say something stupid and wrong

i know as i have asked a few people that too!



probably coz he is a commie!

 

[mhflierman]

Originally posted by -William-
And that is because....?

Just like Arash said. And I hate communism.

 

[Vagegast]

Originally posted by Virgo
Because he was the true freedom fighter. He gave up all his personal life for his dream and for what he believed in and died for it. Therefore he is one of the most inspiring characters in human history.

Che's dream?

"Hatred as an element of the struggle; a relentless hatred of the enemy, impelling us over and beyond the natural limitations that man is heir to and transforming him into an effective, violent, selective and cold killing machine. Our soldiers must be thus; a people without hatred cannot vanquish a brutal enemy."
-- "Message to the Tricontinental"

Since when is martyrdom something to aspire for? Especially when the revolution he lead in Bolivia failed to enlist one single Bolivian. Just read his book Bolivian Diaries, Bolivian peasants were actually denouncing him.

The people that call him just another commie just show their ignorance about history. Communist regimes were seen as a blessing at the time as opposed to the totalitarian right wing governments that ruled South America.

I don't judge Che by his ideology but by his actions. How about the "labor camps" he started where gays, dissidents, and AIDS victims are housed now? How about Che leading the very first firing squads in Havana? Does that make him any better than the right-wing regimes that were in power then?

 

[Hyun]

Originally posted by Vagegast
Che's dream?

"Hatred as an element of the struggle; a relentless hatred of the enemy, impelling us over and beyond the natural limitations that man is heir to and transforming him into an effective, violent, selective and cold killing machine. Our soldiers must be thus; a people without hatred cannot vanquish a brutal enemy."
-- "Message to the Tricontinental"

Since when is martyrdom something to aspire for? Especially when the revolution he lead in Bolivia failed to enlist one single Bolivian. Just read his book Bolivian Diaries, Bolivian peasants were actually denouncing him.

I don't judge Che by his ideology but by his actions. How about the "labor camps" he started where gays, dissidents, and AIDS victims are housed now? How about Che leading the very first firing squads in Havana? Does that make him any better than the right-wing regimes that were in power then?

Ideology are just bunches of good sounding words, what I wanted to say to Alvaro.

 

[Virgo]

it's not martyrdom, it's revolution and fighting opression and that's what he believed in. It can't be denied that hate is a powerful ally when it comes to fighting.

I'm not defending the cuban regime and what Fidel has done with it is not in question here. It's not like he was a heartless man, he was a doctor know the help people with serious illnesses like leprosy. You have to consider the times were different when it comes to segregation.

And you should really compare the right wing governments at the time that were supported by the US, like Pinochet's with the cuban regime before speaking.

 

[Shindig]

Originally posted by Virgo
Because he was the true freedom fighter. He gave up all his personal life for his dream and for what he believed in and died for it. Therefore he is one of the most inspiring characters in human history.

Well, in that case, why not go around with a picture of Silvia Pankhurst on your shirt. I mean, she spearheaded the women's movement in Britain and Lenin slagged her off for being too left wing.

The simple fact is that Che is effectively idolised for doing nothing new. There's been anarchists and freedom fighters since the dawn of time. He simply done it in the 70's and somehow that led to T-shirt sales.

For a communist revolutionary to be effectively act as a corperate logo is a great irony.

 

[Virgo]

He was killed in the 60's man. Get your facts straight.

The guy devoted his life to improving the lives of the south american working classes, that were in serious sh*t at the time. He didn't just make a revolution to sit in the power seat like most. That's what sets him apart from the rest.

 

[-William-]

Originally posted by -William-
There are some doubts that he started the labour camps, and right now El Che would be ashamed of Castro

 

[Funky--K]

what separates him from right-wing is that he had no personal interest in these guerrillas, it was for the people, he never ment to be the one settle on the power 'coz that would mean stop, and he'd never give up any struggle against injustice.

he's gold was not personal achievmentes, but to help the ones who were injusticed


about his death, history says he was ambushed and captured by the Bolivian army who later executed him, but it is not known to what point Fidel was involved in this

 

[Vagegast]

Regarding the labor camp: William, Che set up Cuba's first labor camp in 1960 and its purpose was to rehabilitate those who had not commited any crimes but we're opposed to the revolution. Che himself said the following about it.

[We] only send to Guanahacabibes those doubtful cases where we are not sure people should go to jail. I believe that people who should go to jail should go to jail anyway. Whether long-standing militants or whatever, they should go to jail. We send to Guanahacabibes those people who should not go to jail, people who have committed crimes against revolutionary morals, to a greater or lesser degree, along with simultaneous sanctions like being deprived of their posts, and in other cases not those sanctions, but rather to be reeducated through labor. It is hard labor, not brute labor, rather the working conditions are harsh but they are not brutal.

From Che Guevara. A Revolutionary Life by Jon Lee Anderson.

Originally posted by Virgo
it's not martyrdom, it's revolution and fighting opression and that's what he believed in. It can't be denied that hate is a powerful ally when it comes to fighting.

It was not about martyrdom? Please! His whole ideology revolved around killing others and ending getting himself killed. He yearned and craved for martyrdom. Fortunately, for himself and so many others, he got what he wanted.

I'm not defending the cuban regime and what Fidel has done with it is not in question here. It's not like he was a heartless man, he was a doctor know the help people with serious illnesses like leprosy. You have to consider the times were different when it comes to segregation.

Consider the times? Exactly! People change and they can turn from generous to heartless bastards. People evolve, personalities change. It happens to all of us and it happened to Che, in my opinion.

He could've devoted his life to saving lives as a doctor but instead decided to become a thug and a murderer.

And you should really compare the right wing governments at the time that were supported by the US, like Pinochet's with the cuban regime before speaking.

The only difference between Pinochet and Castro is that Pinochet was supported by the Nixon administration.

 

[Funky--K]

it's easy to discuss these moral issues about him and his acts, but you should look at things as they happened

what other way could they have hapenned? of course murder was not the best option, but then again it was the only option

the only way the revolution would work would be as guerrillas, and Che lead them like no one ever did before

 

[Virgo]

Originally posted by Vagegast
The only difference between Pinochet and Castro is that Pinochet was supported by the Nixon administration.

LMAO yeah that and 5000 dead

I won't even get into this, bcs I have studying to do today.

 

[Vagegast]

Originally posted by Virgo
LMAO yeah that and 5000 dead

I won't even get into this, bcs I have studying to do today.

I'm talking in moral terms. Both were murderers and scum. Period.

 

[Virgo]

If you want to go ahead and call them murderers, how about reflecting a bit about your home land starting with Henry Kissinger? He's no better than any of those two when it comes to murder and he's seen as a hero by some sectors in America when he should be judged by crimes against humanity.