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Feeling Political? Discussion.....

schmeichel01

Goldmember
I just came from a great seminar focusing on political participation, it brought up some great points but also left some questions.

With the exception of voting, is participation in politics is a minority activity?

Why do some participate in politics, and why do some abstain?

I just wanted to get your feelings on the subject, feel free to leave your own questions, thoughts etc... and we can discuss.
 

mhflierman

Starting XI
Re: Feeling Political? Discussion.....

Originally posted by schmeichel01
I just came from a great seminar focusing on political participation, it brought up some great points but also left some questions.

With the exception of voting, is participation in politics is a minority activity?

Why do some participate in politics, and why do some abstain?

I just wanted to get your feelings on the subject, feel free to leave your own questions, thoughts etc... and we can discuss.

Is politics is a minority activity? Yeah I think so. In Holland not many of the people are members of political parties. And I have a feeling that not many people are politically interested. It's really the more elite, upper-class, well educated people who are really interested in politics. Ppartially because they have lot to look after; money, assets, real estate and partially because the "dumber" people don't what politics is about, don't know what's being said or don't know how to participate.

In Holland people keep going on about so called "new politics". Which basically means new people at certain places, getting rid of the old politicians who suddenly seemed to have completely failed according to those fecking populists. It also means getting rid of the political way of speaking.

Someone like Fortuyn was great at it. A real populist. Saying what people want to hear in a simple, yet highly efffective way.
As a result of that many great and good politicians are now out of the parliament. A real loss for the nation. Former ministers such as Dijkstal were voted out because they were too "old".

Is such a farce, that cry for "new politics". It's all media horny people who like being heard and feeling the power, but when it comes down to it they aren't capable of actually doing something. I'm convinced that hadn't Fortuyn been killed and had he become an influentual politician, he would have been found out in no time. The guy was not capable of what politics is about; compromising.

On a more general side, I think political interst should really be supported and stimulated. Most of us live in the luxuary of democracy. Then for please know how it works and what you can do with it.
 

Glorious

Starting XI
well i Australia people have to vote which i like but people who don't like politics do donkey votes or submit invalid votes and then they complain about the government in power! Well maybe your vote would of made the difference between that government in power and in opposition. I know when it comes to election time i carefully think and weigh the pluses and negatives of both parties (Liberal & Labor) and the vote! :) but Labor is my general preference :) I hate people who don't like to vote and then submit invalid votes and complain. >:(
 

JTNY

Starting XI
Originally posted by Glorious_Fan
well i Australia people have to vote which i like but people who don't like politics do donkey votes or submit invalid votes and then they complain about the government in power! Well maybe your vote would of made the difference between that government in power and in opposition. I know when it comes to election time i carefully think and weigh the pluses and negatives of both parties (Liberal & Labor) and the vote! :) but Labor is my general preference :) I hate people who don't like to vote and then submit invalid votes and complain. >:(


I hate anyone who thinks voting makes a difference. No only joking, I do not hate anyone.(H)

Labour and Liberal are both a bunch of polticians. They are almost the same now, after the Hawke/Keating right winging of Labour, into an almost centre party.

Makes no difference in my seat anyway, Labour always win by heaps. Does not matter who you vote for in my seat.
 

Glorious

Starting XI
i totally agree with where the parties are in the 'wings' they are both centre.

but voting is important! (H) ps i hate people being cheeky :p :evil: but that was funny :p
 

monkee

Senior Squad
Re: Feeling Political? Discussion.....

You could argue that voting is also a minority issue now with 50% turnout or less in many developed democracies.

But politics is a minority activity I feel, at least in terms of those actively participating in it. The problem, imo, is that people no longer feel that it makes any difference. We can vote for Labour/Tories/etc, but when it boils down to running the country it's generally the same old story, only that Labour seem to tax more for less and the Tories try to take away vital public services.

Drives to 'dumb down' politics or to make it appeal to the masses are completely unnecessary. Things like 'Cool Britannia', and all the spin put on politics nowadays only cloud over the issues and insult people's intelligence.

Okay, there are some people that would probably feel that politics is above their intelligence but I think that most of the country are just tired of being lied to and patronised by our governments no matter who is in power. I think that's why we're seeing apathy towards the issues now.
 

PhiLLer

Fan Favourite
When it all comes down to it, every political party, goverment is exactly the same. Strip away all the fancy "we promise this" and "we promise that" talk and all you are left with are a bunch of people trying to twist the people who voted them into office 'round their fingers by telling them a pack of lies. I have yet to hear of a goverment that never tells lies, politics is full of it and that's what puts people off I think. It has put me off. Even though I do know a decent bit about politics and the parties I will never vote in my life, why? what difference does it make anyway? you vote them in, then they kick you in the backside, it's the same no matter what political party you vote for, they may all have different policies and principle on the outside but you all know that's just to attract as many votes as possible, how many of those promises actually amount to anything? very few.

Take the whole thing in Britain now, over Iraq. Blair is as guilty as sin in that he lied about the WMD and all that goes with it, trying to coverup certain things (David Kelly, or the soldier who was shot in the chest because he didn't have any body armour - he had to hand it in because there wasn't enough to go around). It's the same in America, where it's even worse I suppose, Bush is as big a crook as burgler who goes round peoples houses and nicks stuff off them. And as long as there are politics it always will be like this.

I'm not saying that we have to abolish politics, the country would be in a right mess then, because believe it or not, they actually do some things right and every so often when they feel like it "listen" to the people. But fact is that an honest politician is hard to come by, if they exist, that is.
 

PhiLLer

Fan Favourite
Of course they lie, as well as bending the truth or not telling the truth, then again telling lies = not telling the truth. The Dr. Kelly inquiry in the UK is a good example of that.
 

danza108

Reserve Team
I am an aussie, like others in here, and same as JTNY, labour always win in my seat, both in state or federal, bob carr, the nsw premeir is my member in state parliament.

i reckon aust poltics are more "democratic' if u must, compared with american politics. here with some money, anyone can register with the electoral commission and set up a party. this is much the case all around the world, getting the votes, is a different issue. however in america, there is the 2 party system. can any americans in this forum, answer this question, but why are there only 2? what happened to the freedom of speech or the freedom to constitute your own views. this doesnt seem too democratic, seems more like the old communist regimes with one party in one country.

and i see on american news how politicans always seem to want voters to actually vote. and is it well documentted that most americans dunt give a stuff bout voting. i also know that here, if u dunt vote there is a 40 dollar fee i think, i wouldnt know, i am not older enuff to vote yet. but here it seems more reasonable that everyone is to make them express their political view. but i guess growing up in aust, has influenced my views. but i can also see with complusary voting, is the issue of germanders, where boundaries are changed so gain a political advantage.

another thing, is this democrat thing, wots the deal with it, the candidates campaign in each state for votes? and the count them up? can an american explain this to me. i know howard dean won iowa, so do they do this to all 50 states? its kinda strange. so did bush have to do this in 2000? gore didnt, did he, because he was vice president? i just dont understand. here for labour they have a caucus and they vote for a leader, or liberals have a national conference. the leader then campaigns til the next election, against hte PM

also, how does the american system work, if i remember the 2000 one, parties must win states, but not all state is equal in votes, each vote is allocated a certain amount of votes. is that true?

sorri for all the questions, i jus dunt seem to get american voting system.
 

schmeichel01

Goldmember
The electoral system is usually responsible for the number of parties.

Plurality Systems: (UK and others) countries are devided into constituencies. Each district elects a single member to the legislature. The Candidate with the highest number of votes wins the elects. A majority of the votes cast is not necessary to win the election.
Result: no room for more than 2 parties in reality, as third party has almost no representation unless there is a great deal of support in a single constituencie.

Proportional Representation: (Australia) Seats in legistature are allocated in accordance with the proportion of vores cast for each party. Allows smaller parties to get seats.
Result: More parties, some argue better democracy, however critics say there is less local respresentation, and more inefficency as there are many more political view points that have to be argued......

I can decide which system I like more,in the UK there is greater local representation, more efficient legislation. However in PR countries there is more parties, as a result more view points are represented......
 

JTNY

Starting XI
Although small parties like the Greens and Democrats may only have one or two people in parliament they are influential. Major parties may enact bills that these parties request so that they get their preferences. Also these one or two members are very important in voting on bills.

Don't forget good ol' independents with no affiliation.:mrpimp:
 

rhizome17

Fan Favourite
Originally posted by schmeichel01
No one else has any oppinions, when I can be arsed Ill share my rather long oppinion.

Rhizome? anyone?

Sorry, been away camping on a beach for a week.... :p

Anyway, has participation in politics become a minority activity...

Well, at first glance I guess it could be said that participation has lessened somewhat at the grassroots level of political parties since the primary reason for their existence, the 'class war', has effectively been won in favour of capitalists. Seriously, the political parties we are familiar with in most western democracies were for most of the twentieth century formed along class lines, wiht one speaking in favour of labour and the other in favour of commerce and land owners. Although the brits have to stuff this up by having large numbers of blue collar workers voting Conservative... but never mind, the basic premise still stands.

But since the class struggle has lessened somewhat, politics has become more diverse, especially with the rise of 'middle class' movements such as environmental, peace and the like. People no longer identify themselves in strictly class based terms, especially since service industries have increased in numbers as manufacturing and primary industry has been shipped off to the developing world. And the rise of environmental groups has been translated into an overtly political movement with the formation of green parties etc...

But has participation outside of voting become a minority activity? Well, I don't really know about that.... because much of the political activity that was once undertaken in the service of political parties, whether labour-based or conservatives, now takes place in groups that might not be aligned to political parties but is nonetheless political in nature.... I am thinking here of the massive numbers of people who protested against the war in Iraq, or the large numbers of people who attend protests at IMF and World Bank meetings and the like... these are large numbers of people taking part in a political movement.... also all the volunteers who do work for Amnesty, Human Rights Watch, or maintain websites centred on politics or people who participate in online forums... these are all political activities, they are just not expressed in terms of political parties and parliamentary representation...

Anyway, I guess it could also be argued people increasingly choose to abstain simply because they don't really see the choice... over the last 20 - 30 years the media, which is meant to be the institution that keeps a check on political power, has increasingly failed to do just that, being consolidated into the ownership of a few wealthy businessmen and preferring to focus on sensationalism at the expense of information. Thank god for the web.... but the fact remains most people get their news from tv, and that is simply disgraceful in its content. Except for maybe the BBC world service...

Also, most places remian dominated by two major political parties, but they have increasinly 'lost' the electorate and people don't feel they are represented by the 2 big parties anymore... and that is why i favour proportional representation, which we have had for 8 years now, because there are a larger number of voices and people can see their votes are useful in making up the parliament... we currently have 7 parties in parliament from across the spectrum... from the greens to a bunch of right wing nutters....

anyway, thats ebough for now... in conclusion, I guess I wouldn't see it as becoming a minority activity, just that the activities now occur in domains outside of the influence of political parties.... if I think of anything else I will add it...
 

Glorious

Starting XI
Originally posted by schmeichel01
The electoral system is usually responsible for the number of parties.

Plurality Systems: (UK and others) countries are devided into constituencies. Each district elects a single member to the legislature. The Candidate with the highest number of votes wins the elects. A majority of the votes cast is not necessary to win the election.
Result: no room for more than 2 parties in reality, as third party has almost no representation unless there is a great deal of support in a single constituencie.

Proportional Representation: (Australia) Seats in legistature are allocated in accordance with the proportion of vores cast for each party. Allows smaller parties to get seats.
Result: More parties, some argue better democracy, however critics say there is less local respresentation, and more inefficency as there are many more political view points that have to be argued......

I can decide which system I like more,in the UK there is greater local representation, more efficient legislation. However in PR countries there is more parties, as a result more view points are represented......

Oh and where does the USA fit into all this...........

Money System: 2 groups with lots of money fight for the whitehouse, the group with the most money wins! :p jk
 


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