FIFA05 non biased review hear me out

[anthony1975uk]

Right lets get the first thing out of the way. I Love Winning Eleven or PES as its called in the UK, and i have been happily playing WE8 since its japanese release date and its awesome, but every year i do look forward with hope for EA's offering as im happy to have an abundance of footy titles to play.

My thoughts on 05 are this - i think Danny Isaac should take a step back or step down, he hasnt managed to nail the gameplay yet and im not sure he ever will. When you base a Football game around marketing features your on to a loser - as most of your development time is taken up on the gimmicks, for instance the first touch system - which works really well mind and is a great addition over 04's effort - should be in the game as standard, its so fundemental to the game, yet its taken them how many versions to implement?

After a day or two of solid play the trouble with fifa is it loses its appeal alltwo quickly, its a game designed to look good but it doesnt allow yourself to express yourself on the pitch. I scored a wonderful goal with Vieri of Inter - i did a little dummy shot then curled it beyond the keeper - but it didnt feel like i had done it. Isaac and his boys have now taken the backward step of scripting some shots in the box and just outside - you can spot this by the way the shots curl around the keeper and its very disappointing.

The fifa team still also hasnt got the mechanics right for team play, you have no freedom of passing and the players seem a little rigid also the most annoying factor is your back four and midfield because they dont move in tandem - they never support the attack and theres hardly anyone in the box. Which brinks me to corners and freekicks, the freekicks are ok except for wehn you get a freekick by the corner flag and the only option available is to shoot which is ridiculous. The corners are terrible because you cant fire in a corner and attack the ball, your three options allow little maneouvering and in fact the opposition keeper claims it the majority of the time.

The crossing model has been tweaked again - i thought they had began to sort this in euro 2004 where on many occasions you could whip in a cross but that seems to have been eliminated for a more lobbed up and down cross - double tapping the cross never beats the first man.

There are plus points though, liscenses are thee, the graphics are quite good, the stadiums are nice too, but the tactics need an overhaul theres no scope for positioning, man marking or compiling your own formations.

So to be fair fifa 05 is fifa 04 with tacked on bits which to me is a year of wasted opportunity by ea again - they need to pull the development out of North America - sorry guys its just not your main sport and it shows, its too pretty to play, theres no grit - which is probably why Madden and co do so well as they are their national sports, give it to a european developer.

Winning eleven 8/Pes 4 is the game of complete choice,you guys who love fifa - dont be scared of picking up pes its much much better than pes 3 which incidentally i never liked, try it and you will love it.

cheers

Ant

 

[Bummy_JaB]

Damn alot of bad reviews for FIFA05. Kind of sad really.

 

[manutd12]

yeah, and kind of realistic as well

 

[Chammas]

If many stops buying Fifa mayde they will put real effort into it?

 

[Shaft085]

Re: FIFA05 non biased review hear me out

Originally posted by anthony1975uk
Right lets get the first thing out of the way. I Love Winning Eleven or PES as its called in the UK, and i have been happily playing WE8 since its japanese release date and its awesome, but every year i do look forward with hope for EA's offering as im happy to have an abundance of footy titles to play.

My thoughts on 05 are this - i think Danny Isaac should take a step back or step down, he hasnt managed to nail the gameplay yet and im not sure he ever will. When you base a Football game around marketing features your on to a loser - as most of your development time is taken up on the gimmicks, for instance the first touch system - which works really well mind and is a great addition over 04's effort - should be in the game as standard, its so fundemental to the game, yet its taken them how many versions to implement?

After a day or two of solid play the trouble with fifa is it loses its appeal alltwo quickly, its a game designed to look good but it doesnt allow yourself to express yourself on the pitch. I scored a wonderful goal with Vieri of Inter - i did a little dummy shot then curled it beyond the keeper - but it didnt feel like i had done it. Isaac and his boys have now taken the backward step of scripting some shots in the box and just outside - you can spot this by the way the shots curl around the keeper and its very disappointing.

The fifa team still also hasnt got the mechanics right for team play, you have no freedom of passing and the players seem a little rigid also the most annoying factor is your back four and midfield because they dont move in tandem - they never support the attack and theres hardly anyone in the box. Which brinks me to corners and freekicks, the freekicks are ok except for wehn you get a freekick by the corner flag and the only option available is to shoot which is ridiculous. The corners are terrible because you cant fire in a corner and attack the ball, your three options allow little maneouvering and in fact the opposition keeper claims it the majority of the time.

The crossing model has been tweaked again - i thought they had began to sort this in euro 2004 where on many occasions you could whip in a cross but that seems to have been eliminated for a more lobbed up and down cross - double tapping the cross never beats the first man.

There are plus points though, liscenses are thee, the graphics are quite good, the stadiums are nice too, but the tactics need an overhaul theres no scope for positioning, man marking or compiling your own formations.

So to be fair fifa 05 is fifa 04 with tacked on bits which to me is a year of wasted opportunity by ea again - they need to pull the development out of North America - sorry guys its just not your main sport and it shows, its too pretty to play, theres no grit - which is probably why Madden and co do so well as they are their national sports, give it to a european developer.

Winning eleven 8/Pes 4 is the game of complete choice,you guys who love fifa - dont be scared of picking up pes its much much better than pes 3 which incidentally i never liked, try it and you will love it.

cheers

Ant

To show how unbiased i am. I do actualy agree with what,s been said here.
A good honest review... EA, do need to stop F***ing around and produce a finished product, for Fifa06.
Or i feel even the most die hard Fifa fans ( like myself ) will completely loose faith.

 

[Mel Brennan]

Re: FIFA05 non biased review hear me out

Originally posted by anthony1975uk
...There are plus points though, liscenses are thee, the graphics are quite good, the stadiums are nice too, but the tactics need an overhaul theres no scope for positioning, man marking or compiling your own formations...

Two things drive me crazy about FIFA (besides the gameplay):

(1) the lack of tactical control you mention; anyone who plays PES will easily acknowledge that FIFA is totally crushed in this area; more important than that is the real effect of those changes you can make to the tactics in the Konami product; Konami did make the mistake of not fully incorporating, for example, FM2005 stats; the Wolf's new patch, based on those stats, makes PES4, for me, incredible.

(2) The crowds. You talk about the stadia in FIFA, and they do look superb, but they are ruined in terms of any suspension of disbelief, or even in terms of just in-game common sense, by the crowd behaviour.

The crowd in FIFA do one thing, cheer cheer cheer. They are sitting at the wrong time, cheering at the wrong time, and the responses seldom match the audio.

PES' crowd OTOH, while not quite as realistic-looking as the FIFA crowd (maybe realistic in a different way) wear different clothes depending on the season, sits most of the match unless the action is such that they all stand, and if its an away goal the vast majority of the crowd is sitting, quiet, while wherever the designated away end is, is going crazy...very well done. The audio, however well-timed with the action on the pitch and in the stands, stil isn't as refined as FIFA's, but FIFA's programming fails to use their audio correctly, in terms of crowd nosie and behaviour, while PES, with poorer quality audio, gets more out of it in terms of integrating it into the match experience.

Just look at the crowd movement; to me, it lets me know that FIFA developers haven't sat in enough matches to actually know what crowds DO during matches, how they react to play.

Konami must be hitting lots of J-League matches cause their crowd reaction scripts or whatever are spot-on, IMO.

 

[kenjiUSA]

your sig: that gotta hurt

 

[deftonesmx17]

Re: FIFA05 non biased review hear me out

Originally posted by anthony1975uk
The crossing model has been tweaked again - i thought they had began to sort this in euro 2004 where on many occasions you could whip in a cross but that seems to have been eliminated for a more lobbed up and down cross - double tapping the cross never beats the first man.

I will say that I have no problem with whipping a high cross or a low cross in FIFA 05. The double tap of the cross button works just fine if you know when to use it.

 

[Shaft085]

I do agree with most of what Anthony has said (especially the midfield & defence, movement)
But when they, (Anthony and Mel) start talking about the lack of Tactical or Formation options in the game,
it does make me wonder how deep they actualy got into playing Fifa.
It also makes me question their knowledge of the actual game of Football (No Dissrespect intended)

In Fifa05, you have the choice of 14 different Formations to play.
As well as being able to put any player in whatever position in that formation.
eg: You could position an Attacking Midfielder to play just behind your 2 Forwards (to assist in attacks)
Or the opposite and place an Defensive Midfielder in front of the Defence to obviously (assist defenders)
As well as being able to play with wing backs, etc.. etc.

As for the Tactics or IGM (In Game Management) as EA call it.
You can make various Tactical adjustments to your team. ie:

Attacking Strategy -- Wing play / Possession / Long ball
Defensive Strategy--Pressing / Contain / Neutral
Mentality (General style of play) -- Attacking / Defensive / Neutral

Which all can be changed at any point, during a match.
When you also add the option of being able to trigger individual player Runs too...
I can,t see where Anthony & Mel can have a valid argument.

As well as having the choice of 3 different types of Pass, Through ball & Crossing.
I can,t see a reason for not being able to keep your gameplay varied...

 

[Youri Bakker]

The tactics in FIFA are too scripted. They are all preset. In FIFA 99 you could move players a bit more forward in the formation screen, but you can't do it anymore since FIFA 2002 I believe. They really should bring that back. And you should be able to give a player orders. Tell a defensive midfielder to mark a specific player of the opponent for example. These details make from a good game a great game.

 

[deftonesmx17]

Originally posted by Shaft085
I do agree with most of what Anthony has said (especially the midfield & defence, movement)
But when they, (Anthony and Mel) start talking about the lack of Tactical or Formation options in the game,
it does make me wonder how deep they actualy got into playing Fifa.
It also makes me question their knowledge of the actual game of Football (No Dissrespect intended)

In Fifa05, you have the choice of 14 different Formations to play.
As well as being able to put any player in whatever position in that formation.
eg: You could position an Attacking Midfielder to play just behind your 2 Forwards (to assist in attacks)
Or the opposite and place an Defensive Midfielder in front of the Defence to obviously (assist defenders)
As well as being able to play with wing backs, etc.. etc.

As for the Tactics or IGM (In Game Management) as EA call it.
You can make various Tactical adjustments to your team. ie:

Attacking Strategy -- Wing play / Possession / Long ball
Defensive Strategy--Pressing / Contain / Neutral
Mentality (General style of play) -- Attacking / Defensive / Neutral

Which all can be changed at any point, during a match.
When you also add the option of being able to trigger individual player Runs too...
I can,t see where Anthony & Mel can have a valid argument.

As well as having the choice of 3 different types of Pass, Through ball & Crossing.
I can,t see a reason for not being able to keep your gameplay varied...

Most PES fans don't go deep into playing the game. They also make comments that show their lack of playing such as, "I was a FIFA fan for ages and stopped at 2002/2003/2004" and then they will proceed to make comments about FIFA 05. If you havent played it then don't make any comments or if you haven't gone deep into the game(played the demo) don't make comments. They also don't play the game on anything past Semi-Pro, the default setting. They make comments about the computer being too obvious about their plays. Yes I will agree that the CPU plays in an obvious manner when on the lower two settings. They also act as if Football is a super tactical/strategy sport. It may be with formations and set plays and such but on the other hand footie is a game of quick reactions and quick decsions. Fast paced arcade-like comes to mind when thinking of soccer. It isnt American Football. Everything doesnt have to be set up and run in a tactical manner. You are right Shaft. I am starting to question their knowledge of the actual game of Soccer. 90% of goals in real life come from a quick untactical counter attack. Believe me, I buy season tickets for my home team, I see plenty of soccer.. This stands more than true at an international level, where all the players on teams are great. To score you have to catch the opposition off guard and run a quick play. Not sit there and say a player is supposed to be there for my strategy of scoring. In real life players trip, run out of formation, and fill holes when they need to. Aside from the midfielders not supporting the attack, FIFA shows more of an accuracy with real football, by doing the things mentioned.

 

[Mel Brennan]

Let's go through this visually:

Here we have (the fully editable) Barca side, right?

 

[Mel Brennan]

Now, in step 2, I've already done something which you cannot do in FIFA...moved Ronaldinho into an unorthodox position (you can approximate this with Chau's CC, but it - the CC itself - doesn't work for folks I know, leaving them with attackers in DB positions, and vice-versa, but I will grant that the CC allows for a gross approximation of this, but not a finely tuned in terms of player placement within formation as PES4..and EA should provide for formation adjustment (not just substitution, but the actual shaping/creating of formations) in the 21st century, right?:

 

[Mel Brennan]

thirdly, I can dedicate Ronnie, fro mthat unorthodox position, a different role ( and thus different responsibilities and different opportunities for goal-scoring chances given differnt runs, etc...)

 

[Mel Brennan]

Fourth, I can in fact re-shape, within any assigned role, the responsibilities for any given player, producing, here, the same coverage of an area as more obviously presented in image 1, but tucked in behind Eto'o, as not to be obvious...this, when you get into shaping and re-shaping the multiple combinations of settings here, is deep tactical play, built-in by Konami for authentic management. I've been to training sessions for the US National team, for France, Senegal, D.C. United, Real Madrid, Roma, Barca, Galaxy, PSG, and several other clubs...the tactical application gets this deep, and moreso at the highest levels...Konami didn't pull this stuff out dat ass...this comes from immersion in the game:

 

[deftonesmx17]

Konami should use better motion capturing. This is the 21st century right? See how off that comment was. Hell almost all sports games have been using motion capturing since PSX/N64. I also never said you couldnt fully edit every aspect of the game in PES and you could in FIFA. If you like tactical, play a role playing game. I am talking about gameplay not the before screens. I am aware that PES gives you more options before the match but once the main part of the game, the actual game of a soccer match takes over, PES has little to nothing past what FIFA has.
Mel, do the world a favor and learn how to put all your garbage in one post instead of scrolling.

 

[Mel Brennan]

Fifth, i can issue commands that are not quite global, not quite individual, but rather reflective of the pitch being broken up into thirds, O/M/D, style, and establish (as a general rule within an overall strategy yet STILL subject also to the individual assignments I've given to each player) sets of duties, for example, for the defense, where I can establish a certain type of line defense, or, out of a nerly "flat-four" formation, dedicate one of those four to a sweeper role, a duty that won't be readily apparent to any opponent until the game is well underway (btw, this is something that clubs like Real, Barca, and Valencia switch in and out of regularly...well, I can't speak for Madrid right now, because I haven't seen them play under Wanderlei, but you get my drift here). this , to me, is immersion in strategy, and extends gameplay far beyond what one would expect from a football sim.

 

[Mel Brennan]

Sixth, of course I can dedicate on-the-fly control, tailored the way I think is best, to live management...

 

[Mel Brennan]

Not to mention the total control over 5 pages worth of attributes, special attributes, and basic setting that in and of themselves determine much of what might be tactially possible within the game...this is page one of five...

 

[deftonesmx17]

Quit scrolling Carlos@$$. I figured someone of your intelligence would understand forum rules.