Former FIFA addict finally plays PES3 and touches the face of God...

[deftonesmx17]

Sure if your playing FIFA on easy. Once on Professional or World Class, be my guest and try even to get into the same spot and get the shot off. Wont happen either. FIFA becomes less scripted once the difficulty is put up. Remember.......a game made for the general public will be extremely easy and scripted on the default settings. FIFA is the game made for the general public and that is a fact, just like all games made by EA, doesnt matter if its EA games, EA Sports or EA BIG. Am I the only one that noticed that once EA got Squaresoft, the FInal Fantasy Games even went general public? Fianl Fantasy X was a big example of this. PES is very scripted on one or two stars difficulty. Once on 3 or up that seems to change. So all it is , PES has a default that is less scripted, as where FIFA is scripted from the default.

 

[Mel Brennan]

Originally posted by deftonesmx17
...Remember.......a game made for the general public will be extremely easy and scripted on the default settings. FIFA is the game made for the general public and that is a fact, just like all games made by EA, doesnt matter if its EA games, EA Sports or EA BIG. Am I the only one that noticed that once EA got Squaresoft, the FInal Fantasy Games even went general public? Fianl Fantasy X was a big example of this...

Thank you, finally, for some decent analysis; this is exactly what EA DOES do to many gaming experiences.

Odd, though, that their sports best-seller (Madden series) is grounded first and foremost in realism.

I think that has alot to do with the discipline of the development team, and exemplifies the difference between Tiburon (who develops Madden) and EA Canada (who develops FIFA). Tiburon, when approached by EA sensibilities to make the game asaccessible as possible to as many as possible, never sacrifice the true gridiron gamers for that sensibility, but rather find a way to provide more modes, write more intricate AI code, to encompass all levels.

EA Canada, when confronted with that same sensibility, have a history of doing things likeleaving heading OUT of a football game.

Now, all that being said, there's no QUESTION that FIFA 2005, and, more to the point, UEFA 2004-2005, which i've also played extensively in-store recently but not bought, are MUCH better than the past few years of FIFA.

But as a overall football experience, for me, EA has yet to surpass RTWC 98.

It seems that EA took a look at that game, and said to the development team "You are giving them too much! Break it out into games aroudn events, get them to spend all their money on that, and soccer gameplay is so simple that you can tweak it however you want as long as my five year old can pick up the game and play immediately; gridiron is more complicated, so that's not something we require out of the box with Madden"



The above may not be a quote, but it certainly is the sentiment reflected in the development cycle, over time, of the FIFA franchise, and, in terms of them having gotten my money for so long over that same period, they need to now make a game so comprehensively better (hint: FIFA 2005 ain't it) than my past experiences to make up for my lost money at the hands of games that, as has been said, sometimes don't even FEATRE HEADING, that I'm not sure they can ever get back my business with THIS development team.

I look forward to PES5.

 

[Shaft085]

Although i do agree with most of your points Mel, i still honestly believe its down to personal choice at the end of the day.
Yes i have also felt the same level of dissapointment and rage that you have, over previous Fifa releases.
I have been buying fifa since it was first released on Sega Megadive (95-96 i think)
And up untill the last couple of years i feel that EA have done a pretty decent job.
Yes i know there as been a few poor releases, and i also feel that it,s about time that EA took the game to another level now.

Another thing to take into consideration is the level of how seriously people take these games, in terms of realism.
For example, i personaly really love football and did used to play a lot when i was younger.
But i have always treated fifa and most other video games i own, as just a means of escapism.
Just to chill out after work , or a laugh with a few beers with the lads on a friday or saturday night.
It was football (in a way)... It had all of the Real teams & players ... Neat graphics & commentry ... And that,s all that mattered. ( Nothing will beat watching or playing the game for real ) And that is a fact... I will say that i feel the game should have progressed more in the, nearly 10 years that EA have been making it. Seems to be a case of, 1 step forward.. 2 steps back, in recent years.


But tbh, i had actualy made Fifa05 my last purchase, depending on the level of effort put into the game. But due to the fact that the gameplay & ball physics have improved in 05, also the the fact that most of the flaws still in 05 have been corrected or improved in UCL, i have decided to give Fifa06 a chance.
This will depend on my thoughts of the Demo, and the final release in october. If i,m not happy with the amount of effort & commitment, i will (Honestly) replace Fifa for TIF 2006.
Nah, only kidding PES5, because even i don,t like million dollar companies taking the p*** out of me... (or my money)

PES4 is a Good game and i do enjoy playing it. I can also see the improvements in gameplay over Fifa. (i think the shooting system is excellent)
Although i still feel that the gameplay graphics are as arcade looking now, as i did when i first played ISS Pro, many moons ago.
But that doesn,t stop me from giving friends a game or 5... Or having a bash on the demo i have on my PC, from time to time.
As deftones says, it is good to have a change , regardless of how much you may prefer 1 game to another. Besides, i do enjoy the challenge...

I just don,t see this Huge gulf between PES4 & Fifa05,s gameplay, and i see even less between PES & UCL.
I will admit that PES does Edge it, but only slightly, imo.
But each to his/her own, i say... They are both great games for footy fans, and gamers a like.

So lets just enjoy them, and stop this childish bickering...

 

[deftonesmx17]

Originally posted by Shaft085
As deftones says, it is good to have a change , regardless of how much you may prefer 1 game to another. Besides, i do enjoy the challenge...

I just don,t see this Huge gulf between PES4 & Fifa05,s gameplay, and i see even less between PES & UCL.
I will admit that PES does Edge it, but only slightly, imo.
But each to his/her own, i say... They are both great games for footy fans, and gamers a like.

So lets just enjoy them, and stop this childish bickering...

I fully agree. Neither is that far ahead of the other. Even as a FIFA fan that is why I play PES also, a change in pace. FIFA was there first and up until the past few years, PES/WE didnt even exist to the normal person or even the avid gamer for that matter. This is why we dont see PES fans go FIFA.

 

[Mel Brennan]

Originally posted by Shaft085
Although i do agree with most of your points Mel, i still honestly believe its down to personal choice at the end of the day...

Of course it is...but I'm still glad we agree.

 

[KingPaulV]

One key think that I think its worth pointing out is that EA producers look at the BIG picture; afterall they are based in North America, football is nothing here, to make a game that sells they have got to make a game that can be consumable, pretty. PES developers are more purist when it comes to this soccergaming experience. Man, its the little things, for example.

In PES the players have been walking out of the tunnel for years, they take the team picture (I dont know how many of you actually know that for the big international teams the team pictures are taken just like the real life courterparts have historically taken them) the experienced is aimed at those of us that have been watching the sports for years; there is passion somewhere in the mix.

Not so with EA, its more about practicallity and the dollar sign. its about "its pretty to look at" and that's that. not an experience. What made RTWC special was that there was passion along the mix, the later FIFA's including last years have lacked it

 

[Ny8La8]

Originally posted by KingPaulV
One key think that I think its worth pointing out is that EA producers look at the BIG picture; afterall they are based in North America, football is nothing here, to make a game that sells they have got to make a game that can be consumable, pretty. PES developers are more purist when it comes to this soccergaming experience. Man, its the little things, for example.

In PES the players have been walking out of the tunnel for years, they take the team picture (I dont know how many of you actually know that for the big international teams the team pictures are taken just like the real life courterparts have historically taken them) the experienced is aimed at those of us that have been watching the sports for years; there is passion somewhere in the mix.

Not so with EA, its more about practicallity and the dollar sign. its about "its pretty to look at" and that's that. not an experience. What made RTWC special was that there was passion along the mix, the later FIFA's including last years have lacked it

true dat

 

[Mel Brennan]

Originally posted by KingPaulV
...with EA, its more about practicallity and the dollar sign. its about "its pretty to look at" and that's that. not an experience. What made RTWC special was that there was passion along the mix, the later FIFA's including last years have lacked it

But there's also this weird, seemingly incompetent, phenomenon where features introduced one year disappear the next. Hell, sometimes they disappear in the same year (e.g. the radar feature prominent in FIFA 2005, but totally missing in CL 2004-2005).

I don't think that that type of thing is planned, or, if planned, is planned for a set of reasons that normal humans might think rather feculent.

 

[Cyclopssss]

What I especially like about PES (or WE, assuming it's the same game) is that the outcome of the matches are never certain. You can win the first one easily with say, 5-1 and get hammered 4-0 the next. In Fifa, once you figured a certain attacking pattern out that works, you can score everytime with the same pattern. Shots from the edge of the area? bingo, every single time. Not with PES! Also, I've seen my goally make the most increddible saves, in mid-air! Walking backwards and being lobbed by the opponent's forward, I'm thinking 'okay, that's a goal, too bad' and pushing the keeper butting just the same and he just pulls this amazing reflex out of the hat! See, you rarely see that kind of stuff with Fifa. I'm not saying it's bad (for one thing, the lack of licensing can be maddening in PES) but when it comes to excitement and gameplay, I honestly haven't come across anything this good in ages.

 

[Shaft085]

Originally posted by Cyclopssss
What I especially like about PES (or WE, assuming it's the same game) is that the outcome of the matches are never certain. You can win the first one easily with say, 5-1 and get hammered 4-0 the next. In Fifa, once you figured a certain attacking pattern out that works, you can score everytime with the same pattern. Shots from the edge of the area? bingo, every single time. Not with PES! Also, I've seen my goally make the most increddible saves, in mid-air! Walking backwards and being lobbed by the opponent's forward, I'm thinking 'okay, that's a goal, too bad' and pushing the keeper butting just the same and he just pulls this amazing reflex out of the hat! See, you rarely see that kind of stuff with Fifa. I'm not saying it's bad (for one thing, the lack of licensing can be maddening in PES) but when it comes to excitement and gameplay, I honestly haven't come across anything this good in ages.

Although i see your point. I do reckon that you should try playing Fifa on the tougher levels (Pro & WC) If you are looking for
more of a challenge...

 

[deftonesmx17]

Yeah on Pro and World Class the CPU wont let you do the same attack pattern over and over. So good luck with that. I see how PES is a good game seeing as how I play it also. I will say that maybe it is the style of soccer you play that FIFA wont let you do. The only thing I can see is attacking with your midfielders, seeing as how in FIFA they are never where they are supposed to be. Thats fixed in UEFA 04/05. I cant get past the widescreen format, it stinks I play the same in both games and can still beat my friends that love PES/WE.

 

[Mel Brennan]

Originally posted by Cyclopssss
What I especially like about PES (or WE, assuming it's the same game) is that the outcome of the matches are never certain. You can win the first one easily with say, 5-1 and get hammered 4-0 the next...the lack of licensing can be maddening in PES) but when it comes to excitement and gameplay, I honestly haven't come across anything this good in ages.

This was quite simply my sentiment last year, and it continues this year. Interestingly, some of the more annoying EA habit sas well (e.g. the radar present in FIFA 2005, but missing from CL 2004-2005..what's the reason for stuff like that? How does that spring from a development model that makes sense to gamers? To anyone?)

Anyway, enjoy!

 

[Robbie boy]

Mel Brennan i've read your opening statement deep man.

i to have been playing footy games since thay started to make home computers (you know the ones less memory than a dig watch) all the fifa games and others too but this pes 4 i think is the closest i seen on any platform.

one thing that fifa dose have witch is fantastic is "first touch"
if that was on this game

will enjoy chating with you mate

 

[Robbie boy]

Originally posted by Shaft085
Although i do agree with most of your points Mel, i still honestly believe its down to personal choice at the end of the day.
Yes i have also felt the same level of dissapointment and rage that you have, over previous Fifa releases.
I have been buying fifa since it was first released on Sega Megadive (95-96 i think)
And up untill the last couple of years i feel that EA have done a pretty decent job.
Yes i know there as been a few poor releases, and i also feel that it,s about time that EA took the game to another level now.

Another thing to take into consideration is the level of how seriously people take these games, in terms of realism.
For example, i personaly really love football and did used to play a lot when i was younger.
But i have always treated fifa and most other video games i own, as just a means of escapism.
Just to chill out after work , or a laugh with a few beers with the lads on a friday or saturday night.
It was football (in a way)... It had all of the Real teams & players ... Neat graphics & commentry ... And that,s all that mattered. ( Nothing will beat watching or playing the game for real ) And that is a fact... I will say that i feel the game should have progressed more in the, nearly 10 years that EA have been making it. Seems to be a case of, 1 step forward.. 2 steps back, in recent years.


But tbh, i had actualy made Fifa05 my last purchase, depending on the level of effort put into the game. But due to the fact that the gameplay & ball physics have improved in 05, also the the fact that most of the flaws still in 05 have been corrected or improved in UCL, i have decided to give Fifa06 a chance.
This will depend on my thoughts of the Demo, and the final release in october. If i,m not happy with the amount of effort & commitment, i will (Honestly) replace Fifa for TIF 2006.
Nah, only kidding PES5, because even i don,t like million dollar companies taking the p*** out of me... (or my money)

PES4 is a Good game and i do enjoy playing it. I can also see the improvements in gameplay over Fifa. (i think the shooting system is excellent)
Although i still feel that the gameplay graphics are as arcade looking now, as i did when i first played ISS Pro, many moons ago.
But that doesn,t stop me from giving friends a game or 5... Or having a bash on the demo i have on my PC, from time to time.
As deftones says, it is good to have a change , regardless of how much you may prefer 1 game to another. Besides, i do enjoy the challenge...

I just don,t see this Huge gulf between PES4 & Fifa05,s gameplay, and i see even less between PES & UCL.
I will admit that PES does Edge it, but only slightly, imo.
But each to his/her own, i say... They are both great games for footy fans, and gamers a like.

So lets just enjoy them, and stop this childish bickering...

Shaft Well said mate

Thats what it's all about

 

[Mel Brennan]

Originally posted by Robbie boy
...i to have been playing footy games since thay started to make home computers (you know the ones less memory than a dig watch) all the fifa games and others too but this pes 4 i think is the closest i seen on any platform...

I agree that while PES4 is not perfect, it's superb, and that there is nothing better, and, in terms of the gameplay (IMO) and the clear depth of tactical, strategic, and global customization (Stone Cold Fact), nothing else is even close.

 

[napolistill#1]

Mel, I have to say I truly enjoyed your original post. As many here have said, your thoughts mirror my own personal experiences with soccer games.

As a former semi-pro player born in Italy and raised on a steady diet of soccer fanatacism, and now a level 4 regional referee (who has reffed state finals, regional olympic development matches and Super Youth League matches with Euro and MLS scouts in the stands), I take soccer (or more importantly, its treatment as an entertainment medium) quite seriously.

I started losing faith in EA in 02 when I was playing WC qualifying matches and the opposing coach (CPU controlled) never made a single substitution or tactical adjustment regardless of the situation. Then it go worse when you actually qualified for the WC in this game and ther was no actual WC tournament (you had to wait until that late spring to buy the EA WC02 game)!!

Once I discovered Konami's game it was never the same. I've never played a video game like PES/WE that has me yelling in joy and disgust and cursing refs and players the way,well, the way real life soccer has me acting! It's gotten to the point where I have to warn my wife I'm getting ready for a gaming session so she can hide the children (and protect their very sensitive ears)!

Thanks once again!

 

[Mel Brennan]

Originally posted by napolistill#1
Mel, I have to say I truly enjoyed your original post. As many here have said, your thoughts mirror my own personal experiences with soccer games.

As a former semi-pro player born in Italy and raised on a steady diet of soccer fanatacism, and now a level 4 regional referee (who has reffed state finals, regional olympic development matches and Super Youth League matches with Euro and MLS scouts in the stands), I take soccer (or more importantly, its treatment as an entertainment medium) quite seriously.

I started losing faith in EA in 02 when I was playing WC qualifying matches and the opposing coach (CPU controlled) never made a single substitution or tactical adjustment regardless of the situation. Then it go worse when you actually qualified for the WC in this game and ther was no actual WC tournament (you had to wait until that late spring to buy the EA WC02 game)!!

Once I discovered Konami's game it was never the same. I've never played a video game like PES/WE that has me yelling in joy and disgust and cursing refs and players the way,well, the way real life soccer has me acting! It's gotten to the point where I have to warn my wife I'm getting ready for a gaming session so she can hide the children (and protect their very sensitive ears)!

Thanks once again!

Thanks for sharing your experience as well It's good to know that the epiphanic nature of not only playing PES, but reflecting back on the FIFA series as a result, is less and less a unique phenomenon.

 

[Mel Brennan]

Originally posted by soccerulez
You do not know the tatical aspect of the game if you like fifa

Or you're not interested. You are concerned about other things, maybe.

 

[Magic_Mushrooms]

UCL 05 craps all over all the PES series, any Carlos*ass with tiny bit knowledge in football can tell.
But thats ok, you kids enjoy unrealistic cartoonish soccer games, which is ok, its all matter of prefrence, us people know actually KNOW what football is about prefer UCL 05.

Ok kids, now lets see you get enraged when you read the truth, lol.


And "touches the face of god" ? lol, get a life.

 

[johan]

Ok I`m seriously getting upset here, why is this moron still here..