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George Bush will do ANYTHING to be re-elected...
- Thread starter Aveirenses
- Start date
Brondbyfan
Senior Squad
From the CNS "news" story Elder posted that casts "doubt" on the records:
From the first round of documents released by the administration. Look at line 2 very carefully:
From the first round of documents released by the administration. Look at line 2 very carefully:
Originally posted by Brondbyfan
From the CNS "news" story Elder posted that casts "doubt" on the records:
From the first round of documents released by the administration. Look at line 2 very carefully:
hehe, I never said anything about the stories being accurate or not. I am no expert, but there is doubt about some of it.
And here is a new link from Drudge. Discount it if you want, but he does have his sources. It's possible this thing is a hoax, and if it is, it's a bombshell for CBS and the Boston Globe.
http://www.drudgereport.com/cbsd.htm
And one from ABC just in case you discouny drudge.
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/Politics/Vote2004/bush_documents_040909-1.html
And from MSNBC
http://g.msn.com/0MNBUS00/1?http://...r forgeries?&CM=CoverTSM&CE=StoryHeadlineLink
CNN - nowhere to be found on this issue...
Brondbyfan
Senior Squad
Elder, the "doubt" was largely based on the assertion by this "expert" that it was literally not possible for the small elevated "th" to exist. And there it is in black and white, another Bush service record with the elevated "th." This means the story is over. Their credibility is shattered. You don't now say "well sure they were egregiously mistaken or flat-out lied about that, but let's continue to push their claims." That's the mistake the media made about the Swift Boat guys. It was evident from the very beginning these guys has severe credbility problems, yet the media pimped the story for weeks. My explanation is that they are so afraid of being labelled liberal that they create false parallels. The real scandals in this country all focus around Bush: his persistant lies about his National Guard service, the disaster in Iraq, Bush saying he can't win the war on terror, Cheney making the foul claim that voting for Kerry will get America attacked by terrorists again. The media feels they have to give equal coverage to these damning incidents AND to anything negative that comes out about the Democrats. And they're willing to promulgate the words of liars like the swift boat guys and these so-called "typography" experts if that's what it takes.
Dude, if you did any reading at all into the actual story you would know that the "th" thing is but ONE problem with the memo's. There is even an internal CBS investigation going on.... None of the family members can believe they are real documents... t he guy who "Wrote" them died in '84. Nobody knows where they actually came from, and CBS isn't saying.
I don't know either way whether these are fakes or not. All I do know is that every "expert" who has seen the documents said they are a fraud. It's on all the major networks now, and if it is true, your party is sunk if it isn't already.
*EDIT*
Brondby, take a look at line 5 in the image you attached on the previous page. Why the difference in "th"'s? I;m not saying it means anything, but it's kind of weird.
Brondbyfan
Senior Squad
Well first of all, they said the "th" was the MAJOR problem. And the issue I'm talking about is credibility. They said it was CATEGORICALLY NOT POSSIBLE that the elevated "th" existed at the time. And yet there the "th" is. As you mentioned, it's different in some of the later records on that sheet, leading one to believe the entries were typed up at different points during his service. Considering that the entry with the small "th" is dated September of '68, it would seem possible that the elevated typeface existed FOUR YEARS before these experts claimed it was impossible for Killian to have used it. And since the "experts" claiming this was fake were so incredibly wrong, how can we believe anything else they say? And contrary to what you say, not every expert who has seen these is declaring it a fraud, CBS has several experts examine them. You are also wrong when you say nobody knows where they came from, they were in his personnel file.
You say the Democratic party is sunk if they turn out to be fake. But considering that these documents were found in the Pentagon which is controlled by the Bush administration, and were distributed by the White House, if they are fake isn't the most likely scenario that they were faked by a Bush ally to discredit the AWOL claims? But I'm certainly not jumping on the "they're fake!" bandwagon because there's no credible evidence to support that.
You say the Democratic party is sunk if they turn out to be fake. But considering that these documents were found in the Pentagon which is controlled by the Bush administration, and were distributed by the White House, if they are fake isn't the most likely scenario that they were faked by a Bush ally to discredit the AWOL claims? But I'm certainly not jumping on the "they're fake!" bandwagon because there's no credible evidence to support that.
I have yet to hear one person interviewed say that the "th" thing wasn't around back then. They all admit it was, but not in wide use, and not in the military. In fact, I think it was IBM who had the machine to do it. Therefore, there is no credibility problem.
About the personal file. Where was the personal file? The guy died in '84! And his son and widow say he didn't keep such private records. Sure they might not have known of such things, but where did the records ceom from after 20 years, and who gave them to the press? How do you get private records from a dead guy 20 years later?
About the Pentagon. These aren't the same records. These were found in February if I am not mistaken. The CBS people gave them to the Boston Globe who then ran their stories at the same time. The documents the White House distributed were the exact ones that CBS sent them... the perhaps "forged" ones.
The part I do find the most strange though is that the White House distributed the CBS documents without hesitation. I think someone said there is a mix between truth and untruth here. Yo just don't release something you have no clue about.
I just want to see what happens, it's rather interesting anyway.
More bad poll news for Kerry. You guys might as well get ready for Hillary in '08, because Kerry seems to be done.
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040910/D8510QA81.html
Brondy, I know you'll never admit you're wrong, but you just might have to on this story...
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/0,1518,317834,00.html
It seems pretty clear now, to all unbiased observers, that CBS, as well as the Boston Globe who used the same memos from CBS, have screwed up... Does it make Bush a military hero? Hardly, but the fact that a news organization will run a story so quick in order to hurt a sitting president without any real evidence is just another thing that "media bias" folk will use in their arguments.
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/0,1518,317834,00.html
It seems pretty clear now, to all unbiased observers, that CBS, as well as the Boston Globe who used the same memos from CBS, have screwed up... Does it make Bush a military hero? Hardly, but the fact that a news organization will run a story so quick in order to hurt a sitting president without any real evidence is just another thing that "media bias" folk will use in their arguments.
Brondbyfan
Senior Squad
Yup, William Safire. There's an impartial source. Notice the big "OPINION" at the top of the page. And this is nothing new: it's a conservative columnist who apparently fancies himself an amateur forensicist, citing the discredited claims of FreeRepublic posters and "experts" who have made multiple erroneous and misleading statements. And if you look at these statements, they have to keep backtracking: from "It is impossible for Killian to have used the raised 'th'" to "it's sort of a different font from the other document proving the TANG had access to superscript;" from "Times Roman didn't exist" to "OK, Times Roman dates back from before World War II, but it's unlikely Killian would have used it." How much further will they backtrack? Remains to be seen.
Again, are these real or not? The evidence certainly supports them. And no credible evidence has come forward that they are not. I said before, it's possible that an agent working on behalf of Bush faked the documents and handed them to CBS to discredit the AWOL claims. But I'm not going to take the word of people like former Sun Myung Moon employee L. Brent Bozell III.
Again, are these real or not? The evidence certainly supports them. And no credible evidence has come forward that they are not. I said before, it's possible that an agent working on behalf of Bush faked the documents and handed them to CBS to discredit the AWOL claims. But I'm not going to take the word of people like former Sun Myung Moon employee L. Brent Bozell III.
Brondbyfan
Senior Squad
Why on Earth would I admit that I'm wrong when I'm not? From what evidence am I supposed to draw the conclusion that these are fake? From the "th?" Because it existed in other TANG documents. From the proportional type? Becuase that existed as well. The font? Been around since the 30's. The only thing these wild and false claims have done is discredit the purveyors. How can anyone believe anything questioning the authenticity when the people pushing this story have been wrong so many times?
You should admit you're wrong because ALL the evidence is now against you. I don't actually think you've been reading the facts regarding the story, but that's okay.
Basically, the only person who is standing by the story now is Shifty Rather. They appear to be fake... here is yet another story...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A18982-2004Sep13?language=printer
Documents traced to "Kinkos".. the copy store.
Dude, you have lost way too much credibility after this one... I will always love your speeches about jumping to conclusions, and believing only what I want to believe, and "credible sources..." You jumped all over this story like it was the word of God, and now you just look silly.
I hate to rub it in, but I need to get in my licks when I can!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A24635-2004Sep15.html
And also, Shifty Rather finally has his doubts... it's too bad his career is worthless now.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A24633-2004Sep15.html
LOL now looking at this thread, i want to tell you about my english teacher.
Almost at the end of the period, he started talking about Bush and how my english teacher was a leftist and liberal. He says that he was apposed to the war since the beginning, because he firmly believed that it was under false pretenses. Then he says that the Bush family are one of the most powerful families in the world and they have connections worldwide that we wouldn't believe.
Then he starts saying that it is quite possible that they "find" Osama bin Laden next month and Bush wins the re-election. Then he say: "Mark my words."
Then he started attacking him for following the Bible bull**** etc..
I was like **** YEA!!
Almost at the end of the period, he started talking about Bush and how my english teacher was a leftist and liberal. He says that he was apposed to the war since the beginning, because he firmly believed that it was under false pretenses. Then he says that the Bush family are one of the most powerful families in the world and they have connections worldwide that we wouldn't believe.
Then he starts saying that it is quite possible that they "find" Osama bin Laden next month and Bush wins the re-election. Then he say: "Mark my words."
Then he started attacking him for following the Bible bull**** etc..
I was like **** YEA!!
Originally posted by Dave
LOL now looking at this thread, i want to tell you about my english teacher.
Almost at the end of the period, he started talking about Bush and how my english teacher was a leftist and liberal. He says that he was apposed to the war since the beginning, because he firmly believed that it was under false pretenses. Then he says that the Bush family are one of the most powerful families in the world and they have connections worldwide that we wouldn't believe.
Then he starts saying that it is quite possible that they "find" Osama bin Laden next month and Bush wins the re-election. Then he say: "Mark my words."
Then he started attacking him for following the Bible bull**** etc..
I was like **** YEA!!
Hey Moron, what's going on?
They've been saying that about Osama since like the first week of the Afghan war. But I bet they find him after the election, but not after next January.