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i dont get it i really dont

Rport03

Youth Team
Originally posted by ladylover
But who said that you can't run in PES?:kader: , in PES the players act like a team, the strikers cross each other and try to find space to receive a through pass or to receive a cross. The defenders give each other back-up if needed, the midfield do their parts both in defence and attack. If there is a game where players don't run by themself then it has to be Fifa, it is nonscene to control 2 players at the same time, with one you have to try to not lose the ball and the other you have to run into a free space, I can't believe that people are still playing Fifa, while all of this are lacking and even worse they know that it is lacking. Another thing there are a lot of threads showing the good graphics of PES, the players look a like, the last time I saw Fifa the players looked like their faces were rotten or something. PES graphics aren't bad, the pixels are great etc. Each year EA promises a lot of new 'great' features but when you buy the game half of them are left out, every year they give you the same game, Fifa 04, Fifa 05 and UCL all look the same, if you look at PES you can clearly see improvements.

Not to sound like an a$$ but look at the previous page and look at what I was commenting about. because I don't feel like explaining myself again to someone who failed to read at what I was saying and refering too. Just look at my posts and all I can say is, I never said that PES you cxould run. Man doesnt anyone read posts anymore these days. :kader:
 

Rocky

Forza Suarez! (ps brotha can you spare a dime?)
Originally posted by snoppf1
:rolleyes:

ucl and fifa 05 look the same:kader:

bit biased eh?

no, your enlightened:D

seriously, cant judge UCL04/05 havent played it yet
 

simakperrce

Reserve Team
Ok, let's get on the same page here. The player animations can be interpreted in two ways.

Actually, no. They can be interpreted in only ONE way and that is whether they look real to life or not. I agree with the original poster, that the running and dribbling speed in PES are a caricature of reality: too fast, to chopped. Nobody in real football does mathematically correct 90 degree dribbling moves performed at lightspeed velocity. FIFA has the edge here IMO as the player movement is much more floating and the transitions are more gradual (please take note: I am talking about the player animations, NOT the ball physics)

The first is that people like the look of the FIFA animations better which is strictly a graphical/visual area.

Besides of perpetuating lame old concepts (of FIFA "graphic whores" versus the "real" football conoisseur of PES) that's only part of it. The way players move has an immediate effect on your gameplay. Why, for example does PES still so heavily rely on the super-cancel button for getting a player of its predefined path? Why do I have to press two cumbersomely arranged buttons in order to make a player STOP chase a throughball which I know will be intercepted, when the much more intuitive solution would be to just change his running direction with the d-pad or stick?. Not to mention that a really decent AI should have the player NOTICE that the ball will be intercepted and make him stop running in a useless direction automatically. What is natural about a CPU player running along an invisible track EXACTLY parallel to the side line for about half of the pitch, or exactly parallel to the middle line, just because the engine is able to only calculate in increments of 45 degrees? Were is all this a matter of only how things "look"?

The second meaning for animation is how the dribbling plays out because of the animation players in PES are tied to. This is simply a mater of opinion.

It's all a matter of opinion in the end, but like I said, the only thing the animation in PES is "tied" to, is the same old limited 45 degree directional model, which basically has been around since the good old ISSPE1 days on the PS1. Even a first release like "Football Kingdom" gives you more freedom there.

As for the meaning of gameplay, again we are on different pages. An example of poor gameplay is when the CPU controlled defense in FIFA sits back at their own box, then when you have the ball and cross a magical point on the pitch, the D comes after you. This has nothing to do with animations and fluid dribbling and sharp passing and all the other bs FIFA fans like to boast about.

I agree here, but it's not like PES doesn't have its own annoying particularities, now is it? One example is the continuing lack of any halfway intelligent off the ball runs by your wingers. They are still waiting leisurely on the sideline until your possessing player has crossed an invisible line in the BACKWARDS direction before they realize: "oh, maybe, I should now run into that wide open space there". This issue has been discussed a million times on forums such as this one, but basically Konami has not been arsed to tackle it one bit. Certainly, the OTB Control in FIFA is wrecked and over-complicated, but I remember an otherwise crap FIFA version (I think it was 2003) which had a very simple control for sending players into open space (by pressing the shoulder buttons) which worked out very good. Again, not even the slightest effort of Konami to better things there since god knows how many years. Mostly, because fanboys used to discredit any critique on their beloved game as a conspiracy by FIFA lovers and bestowed their mantra upon us that "Nobody needs to change something that's already perfect".

This is strictly a poor adaptation of the actual sport of soccer to a gameplay simulation on a video game and feels horrible when playing.

Your opinion. Maybe mine too. But there are still more people playing FIFA than PES. I am sure, in your view they are all dumb kids who have no clue of "actual soccer", as seen by a "semi-professional". BTW, i don't have to be a semi-professional to know a thing or two about football, or why did you feel the need to point this out?

Another gameplay deficciency would be when you are taking a corner and only three of your teammates are in a box, you pick one of them, play a silly mini-game and that's how a corner is taken. Agian, this has nothing to do with real soccer and simply feels wrong.

The corner system in FIFA is ****e. But for every ****e that FIFA displays there is about one that PES has to offer. And I am not talking graphics. Throw in system (in PES4 at least): a joke. Penalties: ludicrous, and always have been. Shots and headers in PES4 are occassionally totally random, and seem to depend on the score. I point a shot to the corner, yet it goes right at the keeper in the middle. I point a clearing header to the outside, yet the ball is headed towards the center and -- surprise! -- falls exactly in front of a CPU player. Still no ability to manually curl the ball from in-game shots (that is, not in set pieces). The through ball is still more subject to the wits of the CPU than anything else (Sure, there is manual passing, but who other than the total experts can use it in an even remotely useful fashion? Why not, like FIFA had it, have a pressure sensitive triangle-pass, which allows me to play the ball wherever I like?). The fact that every defender (even Terry for the love of god) is faster than your speedy wingers (Why bring in stats, when they don't play a role here?). The fact that the CPU doesn't lose stamina, while your team does. The "catch up logic" and the oh so "random" deflections, which, again depending on nothing but the score, magically bounce back to the CPU and try to weasly disguise the simple scripting which lies behind it all. PES4 has added some to this set of annoyances. The keepers who don't react to close shots. The enourmous gaps in midfield which are usually crossed by the CPU by one ore two pixelperfect passes. The hours it takes world class players sometimes to bring a simple pass under control. The fact that players are continuously downed by the CPU pulling shirts. The refs. The booking system. Advantage rule. The oh so realistic rebirth of players and the surfacing of the likes of Maradonna, Beckenbauer and Zico in current day ML teams you are playing against.

There is of course more. You know it. See, I am not commenting much on FIFA, basically because I haven't played it since 2003 (which sucked despite some good features) and PES is undoubtedly still the better package. But we should stick looking at the things we are actually playing and stop pigeonholing people for things we don't know much about.
 

Shaft085

BANNED - Multiple Accounts
Life Ban
OMG! :eek: At last we,ve actualy found a PES/WE player (On this Forum), who is mature enough to give an honest review of the game, and Not just say that it,s Perfect then compile a list of about 20-30 reasons why Fifa,s :sb9:

On a serious note, i,d like to thank you simak, for your good post and your honesty... (Y)

Ps, Are you a Pro Football player ?... You must be, to have that much knowledge.. ;)
 

Santos205

Club Supporter
Most of the things that you have listed are, in my opinion, superficial.
What it comes down to for me at least is the game play. I don't really care about things like the licenses, I just use the edit mode to customise the game anyway. And FIFA they always made stupid mistakes anyway like spelling and often players stats were under rated.

Anyway, I think when it comes to game play that PES blows FIFA away.
 

napolistill#1

Club Supporter
simakperrce said:
I agree here, but it's not like PES doesn't have its own annoying particularities, now is it? One example is the continuing lack of any halfway intelligent off the ball runs by your wingers. They are still waiting leisurely on the sideline until your possessing player has crossed an invisible line in the BACKWARDS direction before they realize: "oh, maybe, I should now run into that wide open space there". This issue has been discussed a million times on forums such as this one, but basically Konami has not been arsed to tackle it one bit. .

You actually had me going here for a while. Yes, PES/WE is not perfect. And yes, there are flaws (some nitpicky, some not) that do impede perfect gameplay. CPU is limited to AI technology that, surprise, is light years behind what the graphics engines in today's consles can spit out.

But you lost it with this one. PES/WE players (wingers, CM, etc), do make runs all the time whether you're going frontwards, backwards or sideways. The is all part of the attacking pattrens you assign to each player combined with space available, attack ability (ie, ability to get into a good attacking position) and game situation. Combine this with the ability to attack down the left/center/right on the fly and you have a much more strategic (and shall I add realisitc) gameplay experience. This single item truly and always exposes non-PESers out there.

Now I understand your concern about looking at your game, but this is the "PES vs FIFA" forum and it just seemed appropriate to me to discuss FIFA here as a PES/WE gamer.
 

napolistill#1

Club Supporter
Shaft085 said:
Your sorry ass, got got OWNED ... accept it, :fool: ...


No sorry Shaft. I didn't get owned. The part about wingers not making runs is completely wrong and shows that he/she hasn't really spent much time with the game. Some of the other flaws he/she stated are correct! And I still stick to the notion that the way a player "looks" when he runs is on a completely different universe as far as gameplay hitches go as compared to MF's not supporting attack. I can see the game design meetings now at the two corporate hq's:

EA - "hey, I know what we really need to work on. Let's get the pretty player running animations right. And make sure the player can run in all directions (even though the game is played on a 2D surface and therefore multi-directions is physically impossible and just an illusion). That will really make FIFA a great soccer sim"

Konami - "hey, I know what we should do. Let's make sure MF's support the attack and let's make sure players cover for each other. Oh, and let's give the gamer complete control over how he designs his gameplan based on how he sees the opposition and the game situation. Oh yeah, and the play on the field will actually reflect tose tactical designs and decisions and will have a huge affect on how the game plays out. You know, we'll make him feel like a real Carlo Ancelotti or Jose Mourinho."
 

Shaft085

BANNED - Multiple Accounts
Life Ban
Oh shut up crying, you big girls blouse .... :lui:
Go and get yourself a copy of UCL, then come back and talk to me, about the Midfield not supporting Attack... Wingers Not making runs ... Or players, Not covering for each other.

You will also be able to admire the other gameplay improvements, fluency of player movements, plus amazing in-game atmosphere and commentry.
You will soon forget about Fifa05... As well as that stale, boring old (80,s Style) Konami effort.. ;) (Y)
 

napolistill#1

Club Supporter
Shaft085 said:
Oh shut up crying, you big girls blouse .... :lui:
Go and get yourself a copy of UCL, then come back and talk to me, about the Midfield not supporting Attack... Wingers Not making runs ... Or players, Not covering for each other.

You will also be able to admire the other gameplay improvements, fluency of player movements, plus amazing in-game atmosphere and commentry.
You will soon forget about Fifa05... As well as that stale, boring old (80,s Style) Konami effort.. ;) (Y)

As I've said before, I can't make a judgement on UCL since I've never played it. Sounds like a better effort than FIFA05 though. Too bad it hasn't been released here in the USA. Hopefuly they will keep improving and FIFA06 will bring what I'd like to see to the table. Believe me when I tell you that my allegiance to vid games is as fleeting as it gets. If EA ramp up the gameplay and keep the licenses and give me the tactical options availbale in RTWC98, I'll drop Konami like a hot-potato if they don't add the EA features! Being a whore sometimes has its advantages!!
 

johan

Senior Squad
Screw both of them .. I`m waiting for Soccer 3 by Dino Dini. They say/promise it will be the best football game ever.. Dino Dini makes fun of both FIFA/PES/WE and how they have lame gameplay.

Soccer 3 will offer 360 degree movement.. and many more things..
 


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