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Is this the death knell for competition in football?

Gunnersgoal22

Youth Team
Pede

For a moment try to forget you support Chelsea, it's understandable that a Chelsea fan may like what's happening at City because a less extreme version of it happened with you and made you very successful. I'll admit that my opinion may be biased as an Arsenal supporter because foreign investment hasn't helped my club as much as it has others, but when I decided whether what's happening at City is good or bad for football, I think I can objectively say in the long run it will hurt the game. If this trend continues it will just be the rich getting richer until every team has their own billionaire which would hurt the game because it would be every team trying to buy their way to glory and forgetting about developing players. Not to mention it would probably take away relegation and promotion. I didn't have that big of a problem with how Abramovich built Chelsea because he he hired a great manager and bought some good players, but Dhabi imo crosses a line with his buy buy buy attitude that isn't sustainable and would hurt the game in the long run.
 

Help?

Fan Favourite
We still have to see how his buy buy buy attitude turns out. He only bought a desperate to leave Robinho. When Abramovich took over, i believe he made some crazy bids to teams as well for their best players, i'm pretty sure there was Beckham, Henry, Kaka and Ronaldinho bids that never materialised. Then Roman brought in Mourinho and Mourinho bought who he wanted. So people might have dreams of buying all these players, but it doesn't mean that that is going to materialise, at least not in the next 3 years for City for sure.




PS. Can you guys imagine what this could potentially do to the city of Manchester and their economy? Two of the richest clubs in the sporting franchise in one place, the mayor must be creaming his pants right now. Liverpool might end up looking like a third world country in comparison.
 

rhizome17

Fan Favourite
Right, so there have been some good posts in here, and some bad posts, and I think in many ways there is a severe over-statement of the entire thing in a similar manner to what happened when Chelsea were bought out a few years ago. Lets try and keep a sense of proportion here people, at the end of the day all that has happened is that a rather rich group has bought a mediocre club.

Firstly, as most people know, I am about as left wing as a person can get. Was I happy when THaksin bought the club? Absolutely not. Am I enamoured by the source of the new owners wealth? Absolutely not. I am politically aware and have no faith in the dealings of uber-capitalists, and were it not for peak-oil, the dependence of the global economy on a single energy source, and the international conflicts that boil down to control of that energy source. So thats out of the way... I am not entirely enthusiastic about the new owners, but I am but a single fan and I am not going to let my support of the GAME be affected.

Now, as far as this deal being the ruin of football. Absolute nonsense. Because what seems to be forgotten by the doom-sayers is that MONEY does not guarantee FOOTBALL SUCCESS. As I said in many of the anti-Chelsea threads some time ago, money will help, but will not guarantee anything. Team mentality and cohesiveness, player psychology, countering opposition tactics, pushing on in a game when you fall a goal behind, NONE of these things can be bought. Yet they are more crucial to success than having great individual players ever will be.

AS far as the transfers go in the just-closed window, look at it like this: City did not make transfer bids in the expectation that all of the nominated players would sign up. The takeover deal was last minute, and spreading the deals around was simply a statement of intent, a power-statement from the new owners to say that 'we can compete' - and the simple hope was that at least one of the players would sign on - in the event, Robinho chose to do so.

Will Robinho win us the title this year? Of course not. Would a fantasy team of the best players in the world be guaranteed to win the title next season? Of course not. Because football is still a GAME that is more than the sum of the individual parts. ANd noone seems to mention the role of the manager here. Would a team of superstars automatically win a trophy with a crap manager? With a crap youth academy? With a crap set of coaches? Absolutely not. THere is more to success than simple cash, otherwise Chelsea would already have won the Champions League.

ANd United fans who bitch about the situation, **** off. You have had it your way for many many years. Money has ALWAYS been the basis of your success in the last two decades or whatever. And money has always been the guiding principle of your Clubs decisions. Your club throws its weight around precisely BECAUSE of the financial input into the club. All that is happening now is that other clubs are playing catch-up, and doing so in an environment where the rules have changed.

I get sick of hearing people complain about smaller teams being able to do this and that - well guess what, the so-called SMALL clubs were once not-so-small - I for one would love to see Walsall and whoever else have a leap to the top. Why? Because they and their fans deserve it after years of watching clubs fortuitous enough to be in the top four continue to drive a wedge between them and the rest thanks to the Champions League money. FFS, lets get some of those small clubs with great history back into the limelight.

At the end of the day, if you know your footballing history, you will know that the game ebbs and flows in terms of dominance. Football did not beign with the Premier League, it did not begin with the Champions League, yet some of the comments on here seem to indicate that only the last decade or so matters as far as footballing history goes. THe fact is, if this deal helps my club be competitive, and maybe snatch a trophy or two over the next few seasons, then great. I can swallow it. But if there is no attempt to maintain our youth system, no attempt to make the club self-sustaining in the long-term, no attempt to incorporate the interests of the fans, then I will be shouting loud and clear what I think about the situation.

And regardless of everything, YES, it has been nice to see the united fans whinge yet again. I seem to remember whinging when Glazer took over, when Chelsea were bought out, when Ronaldinho chose Barca over United, etc. etc. etc. but GET OVER IT.
 

pede54

Team Captain
Gunnersgoal22;2568296 said:
Pede

For a moment try to forget you support Chelsea, it's understandable that a Chelsea fan may like what's happening at City because a less extreme version of it happened with you and made you very successful. I'll admit that my opinion may be biased as an Arsenal supporter because foreign investment hasn't helped my club as much as it has others, but when I decided whether what's happening at City is good or bad for football, I think I can objectively say in the long run it will hurt the game. If this trend continues it will just be the rich getting richer until every team has their own billionaire which would hurt the game because it would be every team trying to buy their way to glory and forgetting about developing players. Not to mention it would probably take away relegation and promotion. I didn't have that big of a problem with how Abramovich built Chelsea because he he hired a great manager and bought some good players, but Dhabi imo crosses a line with his buy buy buy attitude that isn't sustainable and would hurt the game in the long run.

Being a gooner, I guess you agree with Wenger and his romantic but misplaced and out of date view of how the game of football should be run. Thats fine if you want to stick to those principles, but your club will be left behind while all this is going on.

Having a huge investment put into a club does not mean that those clubs are gonna "buy" their success. That is a load of crap. Clubs do not buy success, they earn it like everyone else. Otherwise, United have been buying success for 50 years and so have Real madrid if you want to look at it like that. Some clubs need a kickstart to bring them up to speed and that is all this City thing is. A huge kickstart I know but thats how it is.

Before Abromovich arrived at Chelsea, we did not have a youth setup. Bates sold off our academy and released almost all of our young talent. Roman not only built us a state of the art academy, but has ensured that over the last few years it has been filled with young players who will progress in time to the first team squad. Therefore negating the need to continually buy players from other clubs. Our kids have been together for less than 5 years but they are on their way through. Without the investment we would not have the home grown talent we now have in our youth setup. In fact we would not have a youth setup at all.

I think that a club these days needs investment in youth, AND money should also be available to purchase players from elsewhere if needed. Thats what Arsenal do. They bring through a few young players and BUY the rest. There are not that many players in Arsenals first team that were not bought from elsewhere are there. Almunia, Gallas, Toure, Sagna, Fabregas, Van Persie, Nasri and Adebayor are just a few names that were purchased from other clubs, so it's not true that all Arsenal's players come from the academy. They might spend some time there but they are not home grown.

If Wenger wants to buy cheap then thats up to him. He has been offered money to spend but will not spend it. Its not Arsenal's business what other clubs want to do, and your manager and your fans do not have any right to whinge at other clubs just because some clubs don't carry on like Arsenal do.

If you feel that Arsenal are being left behind then join with the other gooners, who are sick and tired of Wenger's refusal to keep up with the times. Otherwise just feel pleased that Wenger sticks with his outdated principles, as you watch Arsenal slip further down the pecking order.

Harsh but true mate.
 

Bobby

The Legend
Wenger is doing the right thing for Arsenal, he's made the club successful without a sugar daddy.

We've all seen what happens if the sugar daddy goes away, we watched as Gretna's fairytale run came to a sad and abrupt end. Mileson's millions were a blast while they lasted, but when they went away it wasn't long before the hammer came down hard.

These clubs are ending up with wage bills higher than average turnover. When one of these big clubs like Chelsea or Man City crash and burn like Gretna, the authorities are going to step in.

As much as I despise United, there exists a steady stream of revenue within the club. Chelsea and Man City can't really say that.
 

pede54

Team Captain
Yeah you wish Bobby.

Arsenal have never had a sugar daddy????? Are you really sure about that? I don't think so mate. You and the Mancs are delusional. The rest of us know better.

And exactly what has Wenger won in the last 3 years? Oh yeah its been a "transitional period" hasn't it.
 

Bobby

The Legend
pede54;2568331 said:
Yeah you wish Bobby.

Arsenal have never had a sugar daddy????? Are you really sure about that? I don't think so mate. You and the Mancs are delusional. The rest of us know better.

And exactly what has Wenger won in the last 3 years? Oh yeah its been a "transitional period" hasn't it.

Yes. When you can't buy the world you have to build something.
 

Vedran-10

Starting XI
This isn't the same as Abramovič taking over Chelsea. This group is almost thirteen times richer (Abramovič cca €13b, ADUG cca €165b). It's a different ball game.

I don't agree with Mikey that this will ruin football, though. Quite clearly a team can't have 50 players so ADUG can never buy all the superstars. But still, what worries me is that there would be no safety anymore. The likes of Ronaldo and Kaka won't join City now because they don't have any chance for silverware this season. But in a few seasons, once they have built a strong team, I don't think players will be that reluctant to sign. I agree with Pede here - players will be mercenaries, there won't be any loyalty soon. It's quite obvious football is heading in that direction. Until not long ago, you just knew that some players wouldn't be moving from their clubs. Maldini in Milan, Del Piero in Juve, Totti in Roma... those are loyal players that we won't be seeing around for much longer. In the future, I do believe everything will revolve around wages and trophies, and that's why this ADUG thing is, IMO, more serious than Chelsea were.

It's true what Help says, you also need some sort of strategy, a quality manager, hard work and all that. But weren't we also saying the same thing about Chelsea? And look at them now, several titles and almost a Champions league. I think with City we will see something very similar, though probably stronger and more successful.

btw it's hilarious how these Gunners are proud of their club. How is AW a saviour of football? Don't be ridiculous. He's the man who steals other clubs' youth. First you people say how these big, bad, rich clubs buy success because they have huge budgets. But what do you do then? You take advantage of legal loopholes and steal their youngsters. Make up your minds, either we're supposed to grow our talent or buy it from somewhere else. Among others, Barcelona have produced the likes of Cesc, Xavi, Puyol, Iniesta, Messi, Bojan, Pique, Merida, Gai, Falque, Jeffren, dos Santos etc. Half of them were stolen, and Juve took Iago Falque the other day. The only one who was actually sold was dos Santos. All because Spain has flawed legal regulation. So just ease down on the saviour talk and try growing your own talent sometimes. You don't do anything that's different from what madrid, United and Chelsea do. They buy for €30m, you buy for €3m, but none of you grow their own players.
 

Arnau

NGR LVR
iago falque leaves barça because the coaches dont want him, juve just sign him like free agent. isnt new cesc, merida, pacheco or pique case.


but i totally agree in your last paragraph!


all bad things of the football are EPL and Madrid fault. end of the discusion u_U

Vedran-10;2568345 said:
Xavi, Puyol, Iniesta, Messi, Bojan, Pique, Merida, Gai, Falque, Jeffren,
these are the best players of the world right now.





P.D: football never will die :S, dont worry

P.D: theres a things that arab russian mongolian or asiatic money cant buy, the history of a club and his tradicions for much money that man city has now or much starts like Oleguer or Ivan campo they sign never will be bigger than ATHLETIC DE BILBAO
 

Sevillista

Starting XI
Vedran-10;2568345 said:
This isn't the same as Abramovič taking over Chelsea. This group is almost thirteen times richer (Abramovič cca €13b, ADUG cca €165b). It's a different ball game.

I don't agree with Mikey that this will ruin football, though. Quite clearly a team can't have 50 players so ADUG can never buy all the superstars. But still, what worries me is that there would be no safety anymore. The likes of Ronaldo and Kaka won't join City now because they don't have any chance for silverware this season. But in a few seasons, once they have built a strong team, I don't think players will be that reluctant to sign. I agree with Pede here - players will be mercenaries, there won't be any loyalty soon. It's quite obvious football is heading in that direction. Until not long ago, you just knew that some players wouldn't be moving from their clubs. Maldini in Milan, Del Piero in Juve, Totti in Roma... those are loyal players that we won't be seeing around for much longer. In the future, I do believe everything will revolve around wages and trophies, and that's why this ADUG thing is, IMO, more serious than Chelsea were.

It's true what Help says, you also need some sort of strategy, a quality manager, hard work and all that. But weren't we also saying the same thing about Chelsea? And look at them now, several titles and almost a Champions league. I think with City we will see something very similar, though probably stronger and more successful.

btw it's hilarious how these Gunners are proud of their club. How is AW a saviour of football? Don't be ridiculous. He's the man who steals other clubs' youth. First you people say how these big, bad, rich clubs buy success because they have huge budgets. But what do you do then? You take advantage of legal loopholes and steal their youngsters. Make up your minds, either we're supposed to grow our talent or buy it from somewhere else. Among others, Barcelona have produced the likes of Cesc, Xavi, Puyol, Iniesta, Messi, Bojan, Pique, Merida, Gai, Falque, Jeffren, dos Santos etc. Half of them were stolen, and Juve took Iago Falque the other day. The only one who was actually sold was dos Santos. All because Spain has flawed legal regulation. So just ease down on the saviour talk and try growing your own talent sometimes. You don't do anything that's different from what madrid, United and Chelsea do. They buy for €30m, you buy for €3m, but none of you grow their own players.
English homegrown talent?..................
 

BayernBoz

Senior Squad
When some of you refer to the Chelsea take-over, it seems like you play it down like it was nothing. I would think that winning two titles back-to-back in the EPL is no joke. The "Chelsea thing" in my opinion, was buying success.
 

Mandieta6

Red Card - Life
Life Ban
Basically, Chelsea used money to buy a lot of players. These players proved, in general, good buys as Chelsea won 6 trophies and become the top seed in Europe. You could say that money got them their success.

How is that different from Arsenal, Liverpool or ManU? Most of their players were bought from other clubs. Perhaps in a wider time frame, and using less money, but it's the same thing. You need money in football. Stop romanticising the sport, Chelsea did not ruin footie, and nor will Man City. The problems in today's footie can be seen elsewhere, such as many clubs having to break their transfer records recently, and many players going for bloated fees.
 

Avalanche

Senior Squad
Mandieta6;2568536 said:
The problems in today's footie can be seen elsewhere, such as many clubs having to break their transfer records recently, and many players going for bloated fees.

Exactly. This summer, I saw dozens of players join new clubs for clearly overinflated fees. The following are some of the many examples of this lunacy that has now taken ahold in the transfer market:

-Dimitar Berbatov (ca. 31 million to Man Utd.)
-Robbie Keane (19 million to Liverpool)
-Jose Bosingwa (16.2 million to Chelsea)
-David Bentley (15 million to Spurs)
-Marouane Fellaini (15 million to Everton)
-Roman Pavlyuchenko (14 million to Spurs)
-James Milner (12 million to Villa)
-Peter Crouch (9 million to Pompey)
-Carlos Cuellar (7.8 million to Villa)
-Dave Kitson (5.5 million to Stoke)
-Fabrice Muamba (5 million to Bolton)
-Aaron Ramsey (5 million to Arsenal)
-Borja (4.5 million to West Brom)
-Didier Digard (4 million to Middlesbrough)
-Marvin Emnes (3.2 million to Middlesbrough)
-Seyi Olofinaja (3 million to Stoke)
-Robert Earnshaw (ca. 2.75 million to Forest)

I only included incoming transfers for English clubs, and I also did not include deals in which the fee was "undisclosed", which clearly is a euphemism for "we paid over the odds for this player".
 

Zakov

Senior Squad
Back in 1995, the British record transfer fee was 3.3Mil Shearer from Southampton to Blackburn. And back then it was considered buying success as far as Blackburn and the late Carlos Walker were concerned.

How times have changed, people keep saying that we bought that title, clearly disregarding the effort of the players and the club in winning those trophies, if titles can be bought so effortlessly, tell me why have Spurs and Newcastle spent a lot of money and still can't break in the top 4.

And its harder for us to sign any player these days, whenever we make a bid for a player, the value skyrockets, like Robinho and SWP for example.
It isn't that easier for us, players we could've gotten at 3Mil quid will turn out to be 20Mil worth a signing.
 

MikeyM

Big Daddy
That's exactly why United pay over the odds, if we didn't we couldn't strengthen. I don't blame clubs for trying to make as much for a player as they can - but I do think something needs to be done to at least curb the astronomical prices as clubs will start getting into financial trouble in a desperate attempt to compete. We've seen it with Leeds - they won't be the last.

In actual fact I think the media are a huge influence. They run with a story saying "Berbatov will go for £30M" and Spurs will look at it and say - yeah that's what we'll ask for.


And as I said, they are right to do it. It's good business - It's part of the problem of the inflating fees, but clubs have to make the money. I just think it needs to be looked at longterm.

You want to know why so many top clubs don't buy British players? Because British players cost far more than foreign ones. Look at Spurs spending £15M on David Bentley, yet they got Modric for less.

(Sorry I'm not gunning for Spurs - they were the two examples that came to mind)
 

rony31

Team Captain
Zakov;2568609 said:
Back in 1995, the British record transfer fee was 3.3Mil Shearer from Southampton to Blackburn. And back then it was considered buying success as far as Blackburn and the late Carlos Walker were concerned.

didn't he go to Newcastle the next season for 15M? if that's the case, incredible value increase in just one season.

and I'm pretty sure inflation is at its best when Everton break their transfer record for a player I've never even heard of.
 


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