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Now I Want You to See who is Hamas.
- Thread starter Mr.Crosas
- Start date
OrgulloVikingo
Senior Squad
I think that the minute there is absolute peace in the mideast is when God will visit earth again. Thats what many say. Im not ready to recieve God yet so....
But seriously, Israel, wtf are you doin? You're a terrorist state like others. No different , only that it's "justified" because people feel sorry for what happened to you. Doesnt make it right. You too are evil!
But seriously, Israel, wtf are you doin? You're a terrorist state like others. No different , only that it's "justified" because people feel sorry for what happened to you. Doesnt make it right. You too are evil!
It's not terrorism, though, it's counter-terrorism. The fact of the matter is Hamas has explicitly said that it will never stop attacking Israel, and is only willing to postpone its attacks. Israel is defending its citizens from these attacks, and the way to do that is to eliminate the threat. If Hamas militants didn't use their comrades as a defensive tactic, much fewer civilians would have died.
Secondly, Orgullo said that peace in the region will only come when God returns to Earth and something like that, and HE isn't ready to receive God, so... **** the region, no peace. If that's not retarded, I dunno what is. This is exactly why people bash religious folk. Peace will be extremely difficult if not impossible to achieve, but that doesn't detract from the sheer stupidity of that statement.
Thirdly, people feel sorry for Israel? Yeah, 10 years ago, 20 years ago, 30, 40, 50, 60 years ago, when we were the weakling the Arab world tried to crush. The world feels sorry for the underdog, and this time around, the underdog is Hamas. To say that the media hasn't painted the news in Hamas colors would be a blatant lie, and I could cite many examples to back this up.
Fourthly, Orgullo clearly has only a limited idea of what's going on both in the current situation and in the past. He has probably watched the news, seen a few innocent Palestinians in pain, and immediately decided Israel is evil, paying no attention to the story behind this war.
I am not going to bother getting into Israeli history, because that's not the issue at hand. It's important to understand the issue, but few people are even aware of what happened, and no one cares about it, people only care about poor Ahmed who died from shelling.
Orgullo is a retard. Oh, and Hamas genocide? That's fine by me. Palestinian genocide? Not so much. There's a difference between the two, which a lot of people don't seem to acknowledge.
Secondly, Orgullo said that peace in the region will only come when God returns to Earth and something like that, and HE isn't ready to receive God, so... **** the region, no peace. If that's not retarded, I dunno what is. This is exactly why people bash religious folk. Peace will be extremely difficult if not impossible to achieve, but that doesn't detract from the sheer stupidity of that statement.
Thirdly, people feel sorry for Israel? Yeah, 10 years ago, 20 years ago, 30, 40, 50, 60 years ago, when we were the weakling the Arab world tried to crush. The world feels sorry for the underdog, and this time around, the underdog is Hamas. To say that the media hasn't painted the news in Hamas colors would be a blatant lie, and I could cite many examples to back this up.
Fourthly, Orgullo clearly has only a limited idea of what's going on both in the current situation and in the past. He has probably watched the news, seen a few innocent Palestinians in pain, and immediately decided Israel is evil, paying no attention to the story behind this war.
I am not going to bother getting into Israeli history, because that's not the issue at hand. It's important to understand the issue, but few people are even aware of what happened, and no one cares about it, people only care about poor Ahmed who died from shelling.
Orgullo is a retard. Oh, and Hamas genocide? That's fine by me. Palestinian genocide? Not so much. There's a difference between the two, which a lot of people don't seem to acknowledge.
ShiftyPowers
Make America Great Again
Mandieta6;2616919 said:
That's true, but there's no counter-terrorism exception to human rights standards.
Actually, I've talked to sufficient people on subjects like these, and I can gauge someone's understanding on the subject as soon as they start discussing it, anyone can. Unless Orgullo's post was uncharacteristic, I see more than enough grounds to assume he as limited knowledge on the subject.
Actually, it isn't the issue at hand. I said it's important to understand the conflict, but the discussion here is whether what Israel is doing is justified or not, and whether they are 'evil' as Orgullo said. The history of the conflict not including the past few years does not add to that argument, and although essential, is not a part of the discussion, IMO.
No, I do not endorse genocide. I endorse the termination of Hamas. Again, Palestinians does not equal Hamas. Hamas believe they are in the right, quite like we believe we are. The difference is we were trying to be passive, and they were attacking civilians repeatedly and they do not want peace, there is no denying that. I did not simplify this argument into good vs evil, but Orgullo did. Do you expect me not to defend my country when it is called 'evil'?
His reasoning is not only close-minded, it is also selfish. Read his post again, I don't care if he thinks that there won't be peace unless God arrives. It's his choice to believe in God. I just find it ridiculous that he rejects the possibility of peace because HE is not ready to meet God. **** that. I know he has no say on either matter, but his audacity to make that statement irritates me to no end. It does not ******* matter why he thinks so. Should he get cancer now and the only way for him to survive would be for God to manifest, how would it sound if I said that I don't want that to happen because I'm not ready to meet God?
Just like I've had my posts ridicules in the past, if you come to the net and post something stupid, people will judge you. I think he's a moron, who cares?
Of course neither side is right or wrong, I didn't say we were in the right, but we tried handling the situation in a peaceful way and Hamas didn't. Hamas is a terrorist group, not the Palestinians. I want Hamas ended, not the Palestinians. I can assure you most Israelis share this view.
EDIT: I do not endorse or support the limitation of the Palestinians human rights. But I understand that the blockade and the attacks were necessary to ensure the safety of the Israeli people, which is why I do not condemn either of them.
I'm not trying to excuse human rights violation, but the fact of the matter is, whenever a country is at war, they violate human rights. Guatanamo Bay would an example (although a bad one since it's being shut down). Also, I'm not a human rights expert, but I'm sure there be something there about targetting civilians with rockets? Two wrongs don't make a right, but when one side is willing to sacrifice its own and attack anyone in their sight, drastic measures need to be taken.
Actually, it isn't the issue at hand. I said it's important to understand the conflict, but the discussion here is whether what Israel is doing is justified or not, and whether they are 'evil' as Orgullo said. The history of the conflict not including the past few years does not add to that argument, and although essential, is not a part of the discussion, IMO.
No, I do not endorse genocide. I endorse the termination of Hamas. Again, Palestinians does not equal Hamas. Hamas believe they are in the right, quite like we believe we are. The difference is we were trying to be passive, and they were attacking civilians repeatedly and they do not want peace, there is no denying that. I did not simplify this argument into good vs evil, but Orgullo did. Do you expect me not to defend my country when it is called 'evil'?
His reasoning is not only close-minded, it is also selfish. Read his post again, I don't care if he thinks that there won't be peace unless God arrives. It's his choice to believe in God. I just find it ridiculous that he rejects the possibility of peace because HE is not ready to meet God. **** that. I know he has no say on either matter, but his audacity to make that statement irritates me to no end. It does not ******* matter why he thinks so. Should he get cancer now and the only way for him to survive would be for God to manifest, how would it sound if I said that I don't want that to happen because I'm not ready to meet God?
Just like I've had my posts ridicules in the past, if you come to the net and post something stupid, people will judge you. I think he's a moron, who cares?
Of course neither side is right or wrong, I didn't say we were in the right, but we tried handling the situation in a peaceful way and Hamas didn't. Hamas is a terrorist group, not the Palestinians. I want Hamas ended, not the Palestinians. I can assure you most Israelis share this view.
EDIT: I do not endorse or support the limitation of the Palestinians human rights. But I understand that the blockade and the attacks were necessary to ensure the safety of the Israeli people, which is why I do not condemn either of them.
I'm not trying to excuse human rights violation, but the fact of the matter is, whenever a country is at war, they violate human rights. Guatanamo Bay would an example (although a bad one since it's being shut down). Also, I'm not a human rights expert, but I'm sure there be something there about targetting civilians with rockets? Two wrongs don't make a right, but when one side is willing to sacrifice its own and attack anyone in their sight, drastic measures need to be taken.
Theodorakis
Banned
A Jewish girl, who lives in Turkey, types the amount of Hamas rockets landed on Israeli soil on his facebook status everyday.. and everytime I see it, I have an insatiable desire of asking "so, how many deaths?"..
I dont have any sympath for hamas nor israel, I just feel sorry for the people killed who has actually nothing to do with this situation.. and please dont come to me with "this is war, people die.." nonsense..
I dont have any sympath for hamas nor israel, I just feel sorry for the people killed who has actually nothing to do with this situation.. and please dont come to me with "this is war, people die.." nonsense..
No, Theo, it really is unfortunate that this has to happen, but unfortunately it does, and it will keep happening until a solution is found.
Xfilo, Israel has given up a lot of land over the years as part of its step for peace with its neighbours. The Palestinians govern the Gaza Strip, don't they? After Egypt attacked Israel, and we conquered Sinai, we gave that back for peace.
You are constantly going back to the grey area of they think they're right, we think we're right. You talk as if Palestinians couldn't live in Israel, they could, and many of them do. Those in Gaza left Israel under the thought that the Arab nations would destroy us and they could govern the whole area. It doesn't matter whose land it rightfully is because no side thinks they're wrong, and in the end, Israel is there and will remain there.
I'm sick with seeing people justifying Hamas' attacks under the line of thought that they want their land back, but they condemn Israel for retaliating. And **** this UK-founded, US-financed thing you're endlessly repeating, it doesn't change anything. As if Hamas doesn't get external support from Arab nations.
Also, military-enforced? Yes, we need a military, and it IS constantly active, constant attacks from all angles kind of make that necessary.
Xfilo, Israel has given up a lot of land over the years as part of its step for peace with its neighbours. The Palestinians govern the Gaza Strip, don't they? After Egypt attacked Israel, and we conquered Sinai, we gave that back for peace.
You are constantly going back to the grey area of they think they're right, we think we're right. You talk as if Palestinians couldn't live in Israel, they could, and many of them do. Those in Gaza left Israel under the thought that the Arab nations would destroy us and they could govern the whole area. It doesn't matter whose land it rightfully is because no side thinks they're wrong, and in the end, Israel is there and will remain there.
I'm sick with seeing people justifying Hamas' attacks under the line of thought that they want their land back, but they condemn Israel for retaliating. And **** this UK-founded, US-financed thing you're endlessly repeating, it doesn't change anything. As if Hamas doesn't get external support from Arab nations.
Also, military-enforced? Yes, we need a military, and it IS constantly active, constant attacks from all angles kind of make that necessary.
The only chance of peace is through dialogue and compromise. There are as usual on both sides, many civilised people who are open to that idea and wish it would happen.
Unfortunately there are on both sides again, people who are so entrenched in their hatred for each other who only wish to see their "enemy" annihilated.
For many years, one British Government after another refused to enter into dialogue with the Catholic IRA. They would come out with the same old crap time and time again, "We do not talk to terrorists".
The death toll on both sides got higher and higher as the years rolled by. Both sides committed murders and attrocities against each other, and against civilians including children. The killing simply continued unabated.
There was during all of this, many people including some senior politicians, from both sides of the "dispute", who were very vocal in their support for dialogue for peace. They were labelled by both sides as "weak", and these "weak" people were hounded and ridiculed by the serving British Government and the English media, until people were almost afraid to voice their views for peace.
Then the IRA had a brainwave. They decided to fight the war on British soil. Suddenly the people of the UK were being bombed and killed by the shedload. Eventually after too many years of this mayhem, citizens of the UK who up to now didn't give a sh!t about the troubles in Ireland, began making it clear that something had to be done, and that a peaceful solution had to be found.
Eventually the British Government thankfully began dialogue with the IRA, and accepted that they might just have a point to their argument. After many ceasefires that failed , (thanks to extremists on both sides), and after a few years of extended dialogue, a peace process was established, the Catholic community gained representation in Irish Government, and we had peace at last.
We could of had peace in Ireland a hundred years ago, before the IRA really got off the ground, if we would have listened to their concerns at the time, or at least treated Catholics as equals, but the British being British, decided that might was more important than right, and subjicated them anyway.
I know that there are many Israeli's and many Palestinian people on both sides of this carnage, who would be more than happy to enter into dialogue for peace. The problem is always the same though. The ordinary man has no voice. All the power is in the hands of those that hate the most, and in the hands of those that are not intelligent enough, to realise or care, that they are indeed in a minority, because it is they who have the power.
Eventually dialogue will have to take place. The alternative is that this situation will carry on for many more years to come. You will kill them, and they will kill you.
The moderates on both sides need to come together and oust the warmongering factions within their respective camps. It is the extremists on both sides who are perpetuating this situation and nobody else. They need to be removed from power before there is any chance of peace.
The people can do that. Next time there is a vote, vote for peace. Take to the streets against your own government's stance on the situation and let them know that you are sick and tired of all of this.
That's as long as you want peace of course. If you don't, then simply keep supporting the war by remaining silent, or by voting into power the next nutter who promises to wipe out the other side.
Unfortunately there are on both sides again, people who are so entrenched in their hatred for each other who only wish to see their "enemy" annihilated.
For many years, one British Government after another refused to enter into dialogue with the Catholic IRA. They would come out with the same old crap time and time again, "We do not talk to terrorists".
The death toll on both sides got higher and higher as the years rolled by. Both sides committed murders and attrocities against each other, and against civilians including children. The killing simply continued unabated.
There was during all of this, many people including some senior politicians, from both sides of the "dispute", who were very vocal in their support for dialogue for peace. They were labelled by both sides as "weak", and these "weak" people were hounded and ridiculed by the serving British Government and the English media, until people were almost afraid to voice their views for peace.
Then the IRA had a brainwave. They decided to fight the war on British soil. Suddenly the people of the UK were being bombed and killed by the shedload. Eventually after too many years of this mayhem, citizens of the UK who up to now didn't give a sh!t about the troubles in Ireland, began making it clear that something had to be done, and that a peaceful solution had to be found.
Eventually the British Government thankfully began dialogue with the IRA, and accepted that they might just have a point to their argument. After many ceasefires that failed , (thanks to extremists on both sides), and after a few years of extended dialogue, a peace process was established, the Catholic community gained representation in Irish Government, and we had peace at last.
We could of had peace in Ireland a hundred years ago, before the IRA really got off the ground, if we would have listened to their concerns at the time, or at least treated Catholics as equals, but the British being British, decided that might was more important than right, and subjicated them anyway.
I know that there are many Israeli's and many Palestinian people on both sides of this carnage, who would be more than happy to enter into dialogue for peace. The problem is always the same though. The ordinary man has no voice. All the power is in the hands of those that hate the most, and in the hands of those that are not intelligent enough, to realise or care, that they are indeed in a minority, because it is they who have the power.
Eventually dialogue will have to take place. The alternative is that this situation will carry on for many more years to come. You will kill them, and they will kill you.
The moderates on both sides need to come together and oust the warmongering factions within their respective camps. It is the extremists on both sides who are perpetuating this situation and nobody else. They need to be removed from power before there is any chance of peace.
The people can do that. Next time there is a vote, vote for peace. Take to the streets against your own government's stance on the situation and let them know that you are sick and tired of all of this.
That's as long as you want peace of course. If you don't, then simply keep supporting the war by remaining silent, or by voting into power the next nutter who promises to wipe out the other side.
I just don't care any more. I really don't.
Why is there no 2-state solution. We now have such a whacked-up situation of THREE governments in the Land of Palestine.
I always found the Gaza pullout as stupid. The Dividing wall is even more stupid.
But Hamas is also stupid, it certainly doesn't represent all Arab-Palestinians, it's only the ruling party over one particular area. Even if it was elected democratically to power, that doesn't make its power absolute. Bombing civilians and then only to claim they are being used as human shields. It's like they're both creating their own rules of engagement. The argument that because your enemy does not play by international rules voids your obligation to do the same is stupid.
And solely critcizing Israel for its foreign support is hypocritical, inconsistent and stupid. Hamas is also supported by the same "good people" that brought you Hebollah.
This is all so stupid; End it already.
Why is there no 2-state solution. We now have such a whacked-up situation of THREE governments in the Land of Palestine.
I always found the Gaza pullout as stupid. The Dividing wall is even more stupid.
But Hamas is also stupid, it certainly doesn't represent all Arab-Palestinians, it's only the ruling party over one particular area. Even if it was elected democratically to power, that doesn't make its power absolute. Bombing civilians and then only to claim they are being used as human shields. It's like they're both creating their own rules of engagement. The argument that because your enemy does not play by international rules voids your obligation to do the same is stupid.
And solely critcizing Israel for its foreign support is hypocritical, inconsistent and stupid. Hamas is also supported by the same "good people" that brought you Hebollah.
This is all so stupid; End it already.
