OPINION: CROWD DYNAMICS, along with GAMEPLAY, are PARAMOUNT!!!!

[4thought]

Think about it. Being in the crowd is the experience to which most of us can relate most...so when the crowd is flat, 2-D and lifeless, it ruins the suspension of disbelief I hope for in any good escapism, be it cine, tele, or PC-based...

We MUST have crowds that stand at key moments, that are possessed of that "hush" just before the explosion that is joy (those who own CM 01/02 know of what I speak from the opening sequence of that game...); they ought be much quieter when the away team is winning...crowd dynamics, IMHO, are WAY TOO OVERLOOKED in terms of fostering an immersive experience in sports games generally, and in the FIFA franchise in particular...

Let's hope FIFA 2003 corrects this error. I mean, it can even be PC-performance based, where if you have a Pentium II, you get the flat crowd we all know and hate; but if youi have a maxed out Falcon Northwest or Alienware GeForce 5 gaming beast of a PC, then you get the dynamic crowd action...

Your thoughts?

 

[MuLLoS]

YES

This has been my ONE gripe with FIFA, that as good as they can make the gameplay, it just ISNT the same without the atmosphere. We should have segregated crowds, scarves in the stands, individual chants, home town favouritism from the refs, booing at decisions against the home team, not everyone erupting when the away team scores, cut scenes to parts of the crowd after a near miss or something, all that stuff! In fact, f*ck the gameplay, lets just have this. It's why championship manager is as effective as it is, so imagine it with graphics....drool.

Another thing while we're looking at improvements, completely scrap the music in the game except for the menu's ea. There is nothing worse than scoring a vital goal and then some shi*tty track coming on over the top of a slow mo dancing celebration from your players ala world cup 2002. They should run to the crowds, arms in the air, teammates hanging on for dear life. There isnt really any need for a cut-scene, just let them score then run off celebrating. THAT, is what a football game should be like!

 

[theCRO]

Re: YES

Originally posted by MuLLoS
We should have segregated crowds, scarves in the stands, individual chants, home town favouritism from the refs, booing at decisions against the home team, not everyone erupting when the away team scores, cut scenes to parts of the crowd after a near miss or something, all that stuff! In fact, f*ck the gameplay, lets just have this.

riiight

 

[::shinji::]

Re: YES

Originally posted by MuLLoS
This has been my ONE gripe with FIFA, that as good as they can make the gameplay, it just ISNT the same without the atmosphere. We should have segregated crowds, scarves in the stands, individual chants, home town favouritism from the refs, booing at decisions against the home team, not everyone erupting when the away team scores, cut scenes to parts of the crowd after a near miss or something, all that stuff! In fact, f*ck the gameplay, lets just have this.

Aww, and you were doing so well until you said "f*ck the gameplay"..

 

[MuLLoS]

little thing called sarcasm mate, hope you understand it some day

 

[Nikolaprinc]

ya that is true

about the GEFORCE 5????? THE GEFORCE 4 TI 4600 IS THE BEST 3-D CARD 128MB AND THE GEFORCE 5 IS COMING maby next year not know because GEFORCE 4 TI 4600 128MB was just rel. 4 mo. ago. REDstar yug.

EDITED BY GRASSY: PIC DELETED, SPAMMING

 

[::shinji::]

Originally posted by MuLLoS
little thing called sarcasm mate, hope you understand it some day

well, if that was sarcasm, then you're not very good at it!

 

[schmeichel01]

Originally posted by MuLLoS
little thing called sarcasm mate, hope you understand it some day

Shinji should I kick his *** or should I leave it to you?

Kicking *** and chewing bubble gum, and I'm all out of gum.

 

[MuLLoS]

Please man, for the love of god, dont kick my ***, it sounds so threatening, especially on a chat forum

Anyway, I thought you "didn't visit these ****e forums anymore"

 

[Neutral LFC]

Re: OPINION: CROWD DYNAMICS, along with GAMEPLAY, are PARAMOUNT!!!!

Originally posted by 4thought
We MUST have crowds that stand at key moments, that are possessed of that "hush" just before the explosion that is joy (those who own CM 01/02 know of what I speak from the opening sequence of that game...); they ought be much quieter when the away team is winning...crowd dynamics, IMHO, are WAY TOO OVERLOOKED in terms of fostering an immersive experience in sports games generally, and in the FIFA franchise in particular...

My friend - what camera angle do you use when you play the game? Should you not be paying more attention to the on field action, rather than the fans in the stands getting to their feet?

Anyway, from an aural standpoint - I totally agree with you, that crowd dynamics are very important, you just need to play Winning Eleven 6 (where the crowds do indeed react to the on field play, with home teams getting much louder support, booing opposing teams, and club team-specific chants) to experience what it can do to the immsersiveness of a game.

However, I think there are more pressing needs in the Fifa series (say, the gameplay itself ) that need to be attended to, but if Fifa sAccer floats your boat then I agree this is an aspect of the game that can be improved significantly. The audio in NCAA 2003 (on the PS2, GC & X-Box) is awesome with tons of songs & chants - though that is made by a different development team than Fifa.

Originally posted by MuLLoS
Another thing while we're looking at improvements, completely scrap the music in the game except for the menu's ea. There is nothing worse than scoring a vital goal and then some shi*tty track coming on over the top of a slow mo dancing celebration from your players ala world cup 2002. They should run to the crowds, arms in the air, teammates hanging on for dear life. There isnt really any need for a cut-scene, just let them score then run off celebrating. THAT, is what a football game should be like!

Totally agree with the last point - I HATE the fact that Fifa treats goal celebrations as 'cut-scenes', it totally kills any sense of immseriveness or reality (what little you can get with Fifa anyway) when the camera angle completely changes and the game goes widescreen to show you a silly cut scene of Jan Koller doing a backflip or something. It completely seperates 'the game' from 'the celebration' - there's no sense of continuity, unlike in WE6 where the camera angle will stay the SAME as the gameplay one for a few seconds while the goalscorer runs to the touchline (or something or other) and only then will the angle change (and of, course, there are no Fifa-esque 'Broadway' antics). EA Sports should pay attention!

Oh yeah, and no more bloody Vancouver Symphony Orchestra!

 

[Cujobeast51]

In EAs NCAA 2002 The crowd actully left the staidum if the home team was being blown away. Or the staidum isnt always full if your a losing team. And if you begine to win. more people come in the game. And if thiers an empty staidum. You dont hear any cheering! I thought it was great! Im sure it will be added in FIFA 2003.

 

[mihalll]

In nhl the crowd r 3D... in nhl there r national anthems... in nhl ther r better cut scenes. I don't suppose it gives us hope we can expect the same from FIFA 2003?

btw - there r so many things missing in FIFA and there will always be but really the only thing I care is GAMEPLAY & FOOTBALL ATMOSPHERE

 

[INFESTA]

Re: Re: OPINION: CROWD DYNAMICS, along with GAMEPLAY, are PARAMOUNT!!!!

Originally posted by Neutral LFC
Oh yeah, and no more bloody Vancouver Symphony Orchestra!

Definitely. I love WC2002's music.
All the things you guys mentioned would be great improvements but none is really that essential. I just want a decent gameplay and the Vancouver Symphony Orchestra!

 

[XBujinkan]

One Hand Washes the Other; Rant....

For those who submit that EA Sports Canada ought focus on gameplay...agreed...see the title of this thread...

But, IMHO, the crowd dynamics (yes, I agree, particularly aurally) ought be just as important, for the game to be a complete game... I have two theories regarding the production of the FIFA franchise...

(1) That games that are post-World Cup years (i.e., FIFA 99, FIFA 2003) boast the most "new" features...indeed, it was FIFA 99 that set us down this current road we are on now, with most of us in awe of the production value but begging for a return to the gameplay we sensed was on its way to being fully tweaked in RTWC 98...in order to allay the fears of the # crunchers at EA who are frightened of a "casual gamer" dropoff after the completion of a World Cup cycle, I feel confident that FIFA 2003 will be chock full of authentically new goodies (as opposed to "spins" and "tweaks" on previous crap, like FIFA 2000, 2001, and 2002).

(2) That FIFA must have imposed some sort of Disneyesque "everyone-smile-everyone-be-happy" clause on the licensing of the FIFA brand by EA Sports. I think that some sort of clause like that is the ONLY way that programmers who are soccer fans would ever allow a continously cheering, goofy-looking, ****e-sounding crowd, occupying full stadia for a team that is, for example, home for their 20th match with a record of 1-19.
Its as if FIFA literally said to EA Sports Canada "well, we don't want to implant in peoples minds that if a team is no good, then you don't show up; we want the fans to be behind their team, and more importantly behind good play regardless...so make a crowd that is mindless and just happy to be there; one that is into the experience of being at a soccer event, regardless of who is playing."

Becuase, in the end, that's what sports administrators, worldwide, in all major sports, want from fans...attendance, commitment to merchandise and all those other various and sundry purchases associated with fandom; they all go away, or are minimized, when the fan's relationship is based upon the success and proper management of a particular team. I really believe that FIFA Marketing AG (the arm of FIFA that would sanction a licensing deal like this one) would be just as likely as not to demand that the crowd be "happy all the time." I guess, among this set, folks like Matt Holme would be the only folks to really have a chance at knowing the answer...

In any case, I hope to continue to put pressure on EA Sports Canada to recognize that crowds are what gamers know best; its who they are and what they do, in support of their club or national side.

When you disrespect gamers by minimizing the authenticity of the crowds, minimizing the pixelated rendering of the emotion the crowd goes through during the drama that is 90minutes or so on a pitch, then you lose a huge opportunity to create something special, instead of something typical...something I would never put down, as opposed to something I often put down, in more ways than one.

AUTHENTICITY! In the 21st century, with so much fake-ness, in all avenues of life and living, raising its ugly head, you have an opportunity to deliver real authenticity...

Don't disappoint. Don't be typical.

 

[4thought]

HELL YEAH!

Is that as in "Ex-Bujinkan?"
Like nin po ik kan and Shadows of Iga? If so, cool beans kodomo gunjin!!!!

Let's just hope that EA reads this...to me, the most important thing that EA can do to transform the game, alongside gameplay of course...

Matt, have you had any specific discussion about this aspect of the sims from the above perspective???

 

[SB9Dragon]

Where is Matt? i thought he played the game? Haven't seen his posts for a while.... if he comes back hope he ends all of this suspense a little!

 

[4thought]

It would be interesting to find out exactly whom provides stipulations from FIFA, if at all, regarding "look and feel" of the simulation...I do believe that certain aspects of the game (sponsor boards, etc) are clearly mandated...I also think that certain other parts of the experience are mandated by FIFA...it would be interesting to know which ones...

 

[4thought]

MATT!

Matt,
Please tell us what info, if any, you have regarding the stipulations, if any, FIFA places upon EA's production of the game (i.e. mandatory happy crowds, etc.)...

 

[Paul]

Re: MATT!

Originally posted by 4thought
Matt,
Please tell us what info, if any, you have regarding the stipulations, if any, FIFA places upon EA's production of the game (i.e. mandatory happy crowds, etc.)...

if you need to know so desperately, pm or email matt, dont pointlessly bring threads back from the dead

 

[SB9Dragon]

Didnt he just ask if Matt has anything new 2 say? But I bet if Matt had anything new 2 say, then he would say [it].