Something that the FIFA series and the PES series might want to consider...

[Mel Brennan]

...a focus on crowd dynamics.

EA Canada executes MVP Baseball 2005, which takes specific sections ofthe crowd and both makes them full 3-d (so they don't exhibit 2D flatness upon viewing them from the side) and a bit of crowd logic (they respond semi-appropriately to action on the field).

PES does in fact have several aspects of crowd logic down, whereas FIFA has aspects of crowd SOUND down better than PES, but the crowd still just moves in a continuous rah-rah goofy sense, or not at all, and doesn't seem to react to play as PES' crowd does (e.g. standing when it looks like it's gonna be a shot on goal, etc.), but neither game has t right yet.

From a suspension of disbelief standpoint, I feel like crowd dynamics are the second most important thing after gameplay, because the crowd is the thing 99.999% of us know best (.001% of PES/FIFA gamers are professional footballers, the rest attend those matches in the stands, and know what stand behaviour ought to look/feel/sound like).

Here's a shot of the MVP baseball 2005 crowd; I think Danny Issac ought to just go donw the hall and co-opt the crowd code from the baseball game and use that as a platform upon which to build robust crowd dynamics...after they get the gameplay better ...

Your thoughts?

 

[Youri Bakker]

Yeah these crowds look really great! I hope FIFA and PES will have something like this in their next versions.

The crowd movement is better in PES, in FIFA they just sit or they go totally wild. I think they move smoother in FIFA (might be because of the higher resolution of the crowds in FIFA). PES has the team specific crowds and also season depending.
FIFA had team specific crowds in WC 2002, FIFA 2003/2004 but they took it out again for FIFA 2005 and UCL 2004-2005 (EA tactics ). There are only two different types of crowds, summer and rain/evening crowds. The summer crowds always appear when the sun shines even in the winter (they still wear short sleeves). The other crowds appear when the sun doesn't shine. The crowd responded way better in FIFA 2004 then they do in FIFA 2005 and UCL strangly.

 

[jefferson goh]

Why dont we use the crowd form NHL it is more realistic

 

[James007]

great crowds

anpther thing - in MVP 2005, there are 30 major league teams, each with his own stadium. in the EPL, there are only 20 teams, they should try and recreate as many stadia as possible.

 

[Rport03]

Well then again look at it this way there are only 30 teams in that game, but for FIFA lets say, theres how many leagues in the game and on top of that how many total teams? It would be pushing it to have every single stadium for every single team but then again maybe int he next generation systems we might actually see that. But yea the crowds are what makes each sport so great, there reactions, there oooohh's and ahhh's etc.. and yea there movements are really what makes it awesome too.

 

[napolistill#1]

Originally posted by Rport03
Well then again look at it this way there are only 30 teams in that game, but for FIFA lets say, theres how many leagues in the game and on top of that how many total teams? It would be pushing it to have every single stadium for every single team but then again maybe int he next generation systems we might actually see that. But yea the crowds are what makes each sport so great, there reactions, there oooohh's and ahhh's etc.. and yea there movements are really what makes it awesome too.

Actually, there are 30 Major League teams in the game, but there are also Minor League teams (Class AAA, AA and A) for each team making a grand totl of 120 teams. The Minor League stadiums are smaller, and I believe a bit more generic, but they are in there! There should also be more apprpriate crowd sizes for each game as well as the dynamics. Playing a late-season mid-table, meaningless match in front of a packed stadium is unrealsitic regardless of the crowd dynamics. PES has nailed this in the pre-season friendlies (in ML mode) where huge areas of the stadium are empty.

 

[Oliver Kalm]

Uhmmm... yeah lets "improve" the crowd & not make the gameplay any better. Great idea...

 

[Mel Brennan]

Uhmmm... yeah lets "improve" the crowd & not make the gameplay any better. Great idea...

Know what's even a better idea? Reading.

From the thread-starting post:

...From a suspension of disbelief standpoint, I feel like crowd dynamics are the second most important thing after gameplay...

Gameplay is always the most important thing; if the gameplay isn't being worked on each year, the purchase automatically becomes not worth it.

Now, maybe its me, but I thought that that would go without saying; we DO have some FIFA adherents here, so maybe that needs to be stated up front.

That being said, I'll continue to quote myself:

...the crowd is the thing 99.999% of us know best (.001% of PES/FIFA gamers are professional footballers, the rest attend those matches in the stands, and know what stand behaviour ought to look/feel/sound like)...

I stand by my statements; in failing to read, or to understand, you're automatically standing by your own.

 

[Shindig]

I'm not bothered about how the crowd look, to be honest. I'm more interested in how they sound. I'm praying for a game to match the atmosphere of World Cup '98, really. I feel it can really make a massive influence on the player's experience of the game.

 

[Panna]

it would be nice if the crowds would get less flat in the next Pes, but they are no priority ofcourse.. l

 

[Oliver Kalm]

I stand by my statements; in failing to read, or to understand, you're automatically standing by your own.

Uhmmm... Yeah.. Ok... Now go focus your worries on the crowd animations again while we all enjoy the wonderful gameplay. Cheers!

 

[Mel Brennan]

Uhmmm... Yeah.. Ok... Now go focus your worries on the crowd animations again while we all enjoy the wonderful gameplay. Cheers!

I see now why Checketts thought he ought to name his team the retarded name he did; he's got mooncalves like you as his ostensible fanbase.

Again, my hebetudinous friend, the post that launches this thread submits that gameplay is most important, and the damn thread title offers crowd dynamics improvement as something that each series might want to consider.

So, unless you burn up your straw men and respond to what's actually been posted, why don't you STHU? Better yet, keep talking. With each post, with every word you offer, we understand more completely how little of anything realted to any of this you actually understand. It's actually kinda funny, what you offer...in a court jester, dance for those holding court kinda way.

So, go ahead... dance for us funny man.

 

[Mel Brennan]

Yeah these crowds look really great! I hope FIFA and PES will have something like this in their next versions.

The crowd movement is better in PES, in FIFA they just sit or they go totally wild. I think they move smoother in FIFA (might be because of the higher resolution of the crowds in FIFA). PES has the team specific crowds and also season depending.
FIFA had team specific crowds in WC 2002, FIFA 2003/2004 but they took it out again for FIFA 2005 and UCL 2004-2005 (EA tactics ). There are only two different types of crowds, summer and rain/evening crowds. The summer crowds always appear when the sun shines even in the winter (they still wear short sleeves). The other crowds appear when the sun doesn't shine. The crowd responded way better in FIFA 2004 then they do in FIFA 2005 and UCL strangly.

I agree with pretty much all of this; thanks for the reasoned analysis.

 

[Rport03]

Well it is true though, the crowds should be getting better, even if there not on everyones top 10 list. When the next gen systems come out we might actually see 3d crowds that act and move like the real deal. Maybe even have each and every "person" act diffrently, waving flags banners etc.. Some of you are concerned over gameplay, well this topic is about crwds not gameplay and even though gameplay will always be improved, there are places to talk about that, but here the conversation is about the crowd and every aspect of the game is important to the atmosphere of the stadium, because watching a replay of a great goal and the crowd is really crappy looking then it kills the goal completly IMO. If your the home team its nice to see a replay of your player moving closer to the goal and having the crowd begin to stand up and once you score they all break out cheering and waving flags etc.. Just total chaos. That and having them made in great detail really will bring the game to life and give it the depth it needs.

 

[ganxxxter]

i still think that gameplay improvements are much, much, much more important for both games than the crowds, pes/we should finally have the option to take quick free-kicks, quick corners and throw-ins as well as the okocha and maybe some other tricks. fifa should get a new engine for the ball physics and its free-kick and corner-system should be improved a lot (EA should get rid of the text bars and the crosshairs)