Tell me WE7's big difference from WE6

[mapliopl]

I've seen videos for the new PES 3 or WE7 and it still looks like they have the gayish goal celebrations. If you notice, any goal celebration with more than 2 people, seems like they're f***cking each other on the pitch, or j**rking off, or huggin like they're f**cking the other's arrse... It's so gay, and they still have it.
Besides, the graphics don't look all that great yet, and it still looks like they have no organic animation at all.
It p**sses me off that konami has gained so much money with WE, and they don't spend their loads of money to update it significantly. All the stadium fans still look like the old ISS from SNES. There's no ref on the pitch and no online play. It makes me wonder why the intro video when you turm the game on is sooooooooo awesome, but when you start the game, it's like they've downgraded it on purpose and it looks so stupid...
Fifa this year might blow us away, because the gameplay, much better realistic ball physics and organic animation (also off-the-ball control) might kick WE's arse... Of course they might still keep the most stupid goals going in, but if you put it all together with all that konami is missing out on, it may be the only time this FIFA might surpass our beloved WE.
Just so you know, I'll buy and play both, if I hate one or the other, I'll let you know.

Tell me what you think...
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[mattah]

I'd just like to point out there seems to be a very strong undercurrent of homophobia on this forum. How your feelings about the goal celebrations detract from your enjoyment of the game is up to you, but I can only say that in my case I don't really give a **** about the goal celebration.

What I do give a **** about is the play leading up to the goal.

My opinion is that WE is by far the best simulation of soccer today. I also think that it will be close to impossible for EA to match the gameplay of WE with FIFA. The thing with WE is that often not much really is needed to improve the game. Much of the game is perfect, and really each year we just get tweaks and additions. This year we got 80% of the animation redone, a new graphics engine (apparently), new trick moves, and new AI to play with. I'm not sure that in the 4 or 5 months (or however long EA have to develop FIFA) that they can fine tune their product to such an extent to that which WE boasts.

I must admit that I've never played FIFA for a large period of time. I went looking for a soccer (as the "beautiful game" is called down here) game about four years ago for my PSone. After reading some stuff on the internet, the general feeling seemed to be that a game called ISS 98 was the enthusiasts choice. I grabbed a copy of that and since then have never looked back. Each year I've tried FIFA for a little while, but in every case it has been plainly clear to see that the game is severely lacking in quality.

I don't see the status quo this year changing an awful lot.

 

[mapliopl]

I do agree with you that WE's game play has been unachiavable for quite some time, but I'm waiting till the end of october to make sure it is still true. When I play FIFA I'll know if I'm going to switch or not.

Because to tell you the truth, I want to switch. Simply because FIFA is more organized, it's a licensed game, sound is great, but so far, with F2003 out there, I couldn't stop playing WE6.

I'm telling you, if WE6 had the same graphics, sound and now organic motion, even though it's not licensed, I wouldn't think twice about ditching FIFA.

But, since I'm a very detailed person, I want everything to be right, all jerseys to be the true ones, team names, player names, ref on the pitch, organic motion, etc... I just don't sacrifice gameplay, and that's why I own WE6 and not FIFA.

But October is coming and I have the chance of giving FIFA a try again. If gameplay sucks, I'll keep playing WE7/PES3 since I'm also going to buy the game, but everytime I see the players running like robots, that I don't see the ref on the pitch (by the way, why don't they do that?), and those homo goal celebrations, I'll complain but still play the game.

Sad, but I don't want to sacrifice gameplay, although I think FIFA is not going to disapoint me this time...

 

[theCRO]

HAHAHAHAHA....that's what I think

 

[mapliopl]

same reply

I wrote this in the other thread, and it applies to this one too.

Besides the homo celebrations, I can just think about Konami laughing at us everytime we buy or play the game, because they have the resources to create a superb game, but they only concentrate on minor adjustments.

Instead of the minute long gayish goal celebrations, why not spend less time animating that crap and making the animations of players running look less robotic?

Too bad for Konami...

I do like the gameplay though, but I still think they make too much money every year and they just stock up the money to upgrade metal gear solid and silent hill... while WE just gets "bandanas" , facial expressions. Funny, but true...

WE buyers, including me, should think twice now with FIFA creating a much better gameplay for 2004. THINK people, THINK!!

 

[Y2K]

The different btw WE 6 and WE 7 is the fact that u can do tricks with the players just like real-life in WE 7. U can do the 360 spin which of course u can do in FIFA. But unlike FIFA, you MIGHT lose the ball while doing this, but in FIFA you can do this a million time easily which is soooooooooo fake. U can also flick the ball over on opponent, nutmeg the defenders and lots more. And they require skill to do it which simulate the 'beautiful game' very well.

 

[theCRO]

Mano if you had played both (you obviously haven't), you'd know the difference. The differences are HUGE and any football fan/WE fan can see them straight from kick off....

 

[mattah]

Originally posted by theCRO
Mano if you had played both (you obviously haven't), you'd know the difference. The differences are HUGE and any football fan/WE fan can see them straight from kick off....

theCRO,If you had bothered to read his posts, you would have seen that he has in fact played WE.

He is raising what he thinks is a fairly valid point (that KCET don't add enough to their game every year), and you come in acting like a FIFA fanboy and flaming him. He's actually one of the few people posting (relatively) mature comments from the FIFA side.

On to the real point:

The problem really lies with the fact that we are used to radical changes between games, but if you think about it, these games are usually years apart in development, whereas with PES/FIFA, a new one is released each year. The difference here is that FIFA is totally redesigned almost every year because of complaints, whereas PES/WE evolves into another newer game.

Take the average software game lifecycle: probably 2, maybe 3, years in development. Then milk that while working on the sequel. You might get a new sequel 3-4 years on the PC, probably 2-3 on the PS2 (no new hardware really to adapt for and cater to). Have a look at PES/WE two to three years ago. We had the original PES. Compare that to WE7, and you can see the development.

EA redesigns their game every year because they have to (because it gets panned and loses ground to PES/WE every year) while Konami doesn't need to - so they improve on what they have got. There is a saying that goes "if it aint broke, don't fix it", and this readily applies here.

My comments on FIFA follow,

I had a look at a FIFA 2k4 video the other day, and possibly the best compliment I could pay it is that it *looks* like WE. That's a huge step. It really did look like football. [1]

I have some huuuge reservations on how well the game will play, but overall impressions of it were positive.

That said, do I think it will be as good as WE7/PES3? No. Categorically no. There is simply no way they could develop as polished a product as WE7 in the time available to them. Think of WE7 as being years in development. It is the combined work of the entire PES series rolled up into the latest package. As I said earlier, FIFA changes so much each year (bringing in things like a separate ball *shock*), that they won't have the time to really fine tune the game like Konami.

WE buyers, including me, should think twice now with FIFA creating a much better gameplay for 2004. THINK people, THINK!!

By all means Mano, try FIFA 2k4. I probably will have a look at the demo. It may or may not impress me to the point of buying it, but I'm not going to make claims that FIFA will be better, because EA's track record is horrendous, and my money is valuable. Also, I already have a perfectly good, wonderful game that I enjoy hugely in WE7. It would take something really really special to knock it off my perch.

.Matt

[1] I mentioned it to a friend of mine, and he said something along the lines of "typical software company, copy the superior competitor ".

 

[theCRO]

Originally posted by mattah
theCRO,If you had bothered to read his posts, you would have seen that he has in fact played WE.

".[/size]

Things like this lead me to that conclusion

looks like they have the gayish goal celebrations. If you notice, any goal celebration with more than 2 people, seems like they're f***cking each other on the pitch, or j**rking off, or huggin like they're f**cking the other's arrse... It's so gay, and they still have it

There's no ref on the pitch and no online play. It makes me wonder why the intro video when you turm the game on is sooooooooo awesome, but when you start the game, it's like they've downgraded it on purpose and it looks so stupid...

Fifa this year might blow us away, because the gameplay, much better realistic ball physics and organic animation (also off-the-ball control) might kick WE's arse... Of course they might still keep the most stupid goals going in, but if you put it all together with all that konami is missing out on, it may be the only time this FIFA might surpass our beloved WE.

I'll keep playing WE7/PES3 since I'm also going to buy the game, but everytime I see the players running like robots, that I don't see the ref on the pitch (by the way, why don't they do that?), and those homo goal celebrations, I'll complain but still play the game.

All that could have been pieced togther by watching a few videos, besides, most of it is innacurate and not one WE player I know would agree. So I conclude that he hasn't really played WE7, maybe he's played WE6 but that's a 2 year old game...

 

[mapliopl]

Yes, I haven't played WE7 yet

And the fact is, it's going to be a while for me. I'm in america and I don't seem to find a cheap and safe way to play imported games, so I may have to wait until feb 2004 to play WE7, which sucks.

Now, in regards to all those comments made above, those were the comments I was looking for from WE fans. Thanks Matt.

Someone who can rationalize that there could be major changes to the game really understands my point. Now, I believe that even though WE's gameplay is certainly unbeatable, if Fifa 2004 comes at least close to it this year, then there will be tons of people thinking twice about WE.

I don't know what it is, but WE just hooks you, and if FIFA can do that this time, then we are up for a good fight.

Now, since I'm a very detailed person, I'd like to see the game polished enough that the chants are much more realistic, when the ball is stopped players are not "frozen", better animations and renderings, including substitutions and no homo celebrations. That would be a perfect WE8.

Let's make Konami do that, then we won't even need to ever mention FIFA again, unless, like I said before they blow us away with a decent gameplay.

Thanks

 

[mattah]

Re: Yes, I haven't played WE7 yet

Originally posted by mapliopl And the fact is, it's going to be a while for me. [snip 8<..]

Whoops, I take my hat off to theCRO, well judged dude.

Someone who can rationalize that there could be major changes to the game really understands my point. Now, I believe that even though WE's gameplay is certainly unbeatable, if Fifa 2004 comes at least close to it this year, then there will be tons of people thinking twice about WE.

I understand your point, but I'm not sure if you understand mine. Radically changing something means that ultimately alot of things are left half done and incomplete, poorly implemented, or just straight not done. KCET has had *years* perfecting this game. FIFA have had years producing tripe. Things are not going to just magically change, no matter how much the FIFA kids would like them to.

I don't know what it is, but WE just hooks you, and if FIFA can do that this time, then we are up for a good fight.

From what I have seen, FIFA this year looks to be fairly good (haven't played it yet though ). It won't be as good as WE, and unfortunately I can see a whole heap of little kids claiming it to be.

Now, since I'm a very detailed person, I'd like to see the game polished enough that the chants are much more realistic, when the ball is stopped players are not "frozen", better animations and renderings, including substitutions and no homo celebrations. That would be a perfect WE8.

Chants are available off the web in the form of patches. In WE7, players do not stop once they have lost the ball. The animations and rendering is superior to FIFA on the PS2, and really they lack the headroom to be able to improve this, because afaik they are already pushing the PS2 to its limits just with the AI. The "homo" celebrations are part of the game, get used to it. If you haven't seen a homosexual goal celebration, I would question whether or not you have actually seen any soccer.

 

[theCRO]

I just hit the button before he starts celebrating....who wants to waste time when you could be playing?

 

[mapliopl]

I wont talk about them until I play them

So, This is what I'm going to do, wait until I can play both and make my decisions. Here's how it will go for me, I think...

I'll play both games and decide which one is better... so far, there's only been predictions, but when I play, I'll know at least how much better FIFA is.

Too bad it'll be long until I play WE7, unless I find a way to mod my system or use those boot cds that make u open the tray when you're not supposed to. But this might be a question to a different thread.

I just want to be able to play with my home team (Corinthians from Brazil), and I just hate having to create players from scratch or modifying a team to play with them makes me too angry, but if FIFA continues to irritate me, then I'll have to take the time and do it myself on WE7 in Feb.

Anyhow, my comments are not as relevant anymore since I haven't played both games yet, so I'll stop commenting until I play them, unless there's reason to respond to other comments.

 

[toomerk]

Mano, I don't get what you mean by hyping up EA's hype-machine generated "organic animation". I've seen all their videos, and you know what? The only time they demonstrate this "organic animation" is by showing you a video of players mucking around with the ball by themselves, doing some juggling. On the pitch, in the gameplay videos, I've seen nothing of the sort. Only some trapping animations of aerial balls.

To say that WE doesn't have good animation is just ridiculous. In fact, IMO, the player animation in WE is so realistic, it is the reason why I believe WE's graphics are light years ahead of FIFA. Graphics are not all about having the proper kits. Player animation has a lot to do with it. Show me a video of FIFA where players dribble and shoot with the outside of their foot, backheel passes, flick-ons, back-heel turns to get separation, lunging on-foot volleys, wrong-footed shots have very little strength, shall I go on? I've seen none of these movements in FIFA. FIFA's game still moves too fast, the ball flies around at laser speeds, there (at the moment) doesn't seem to be any build-up play, and from the videos I've seen, players are playing out of position (Vieira on the left wing? Pires in central midfield? Does EA watch football?).

Don't get me wrong. FIFA 2004 looks better, but come on, don't get carried away just because your favorite team isn't in the game. You have WE6. So you should understand what I mean...

 

[theCRO]

and calling WE players "robotic" is an astounding statemen. They'e the most lifelike players of any sports game on any format. FIFA2004 videos clearly show players running into dumb spaces, not looking at the ball (!!!), facing the wrong way and making scripted movements..

plus they also look unco and ackward.

 

[Chammas]

WE

Why have I never heard of WE??? I live in sweden. or is it just on PS?

 

[valioso]

is probably called pro evolution soccer in sweden.. and its only for ps2