"The Dutch were taught a lesson"

[Manwithdaplan]

I am living in England now, and this is what I read in all the papers here. I grew up in Holland, and my father is Dutch so I am a strong Holland supporter. Of course I saw the game against Scotland, and of course I did not expect them to lose. The truth is, I dont understand why people still think the Dutch to be arrogant. To say that they are in need of, or before yesterday, were in need of being taught a lesson is stupid. I think that that lesson has been taught years ago. I can tell you as well as any Holland supporter that being an oranje fan is just a series of sad, frusterating dissapointments. Recently, being knocked out in the semifinals in 98, the semifinals (in holland!) in 2000, both due to penalties, and then not even qualifying for the wc because of a loss to ireland in 2001 is horrible. But the game against Ireland was the wake-up call for Holland. I did not think, watching yesterday's game, that Holland did not play as a team. They had some wonderful plays, and I felt that in many occasions luck was not on their side. I dont blame the referee for not giving a penalty, it was a close call and that was his decision; I am not saying the scots were bad, they played an excellent game of football and took advantage of their chances. I do blame the Dutch management, because I dont understand why Advocaat swore that v. Nistelrooy and Kluivert would not play togother, but then put them in anyway. I believe that Holland may have tied or won the game had van der Vaart and Makaay played the whole game. But I do NOT believe that Holland was in need of being taught a lesson! They played a good game of football, dominated the majority of the game, but were unlucky with their chances. Scotland got the win, fair and square, but the match didnt prove the weakness of Holland, it proved the strength of Scotland.

Someone, let me know if what I am saying makes sense. I cant stand reading headlines such as, "Scotland Teaches Dutch a Lesson".

It seems to me that, strangely, Holland achieves the same results against less-experienced teams such as Scotland as they do against powerhouse teams such as Argentina...

 

[Amika]

hahahaha.. now this is a shocker... i agreed with you i never thought that scotland can pull this off.. but all credit to them...

 

[ShearerM4]

well they haven't pulled it off yet.

their gonna have to fight even harder over in Amsterdam.

 

[Fernandez]

they will have an advantage if they get that away goal... which they will do...

 

[Lean]

They're playing those oldies that have almost nothing to offer anymore, i mean, they're playing guys who are past it. Frank de Boer, Cocu, maybe Davids (he was much better than he is now, come on!), Overmars (who is a big let down to Barça fans), and even Kluivert, he's not past it, but Makaay is on better form, even though Makaay is not as good as he used to be on Deportivo, but atm he's the better player. I think Mr. Dick (...) should've played Makaay, Seedorf, Vd Vaart. Also, i dont know about Hofland and Van Bommel, but if they were available and they werent called up, then i reckon Netherlands biggest problem is their manager, not the team. Although i reckoned that ages ago...

 

[Manwithdaplan]

Yes the management is a big problem. In my opinion the last good Dutch coach was Frank Rijkaard. But van Bommel was injured, thats why he wasnt playing. I think he will be out for some time, I dont remember exactly how long though... I agree though that too many old players are being played. Cocu and de Boer should not be starting anymore, although I love watching Overmars play for Holland (on barcelona he just doesnt seem that special). Holland has plenty of young talent, they should really be developing it.

 

[Internazionale]

I don't know if this is true. Most Dutch players that play for national team are selfish. There's no unity when they play for NT.

 

[Jambo Den]

Umm, any idea who will replace Stam in central defence?

Also, the only thing good to come out of Holland is Mark De Vries, what a hero.

 

[rpvankasteren]

lol

Stam will most likely be replaced by Wilfred Bouma. He's a class player, and should have played yesterday, in stead of De Boer.

Van Bronckhorst will most likely not start wednesday. In stead Seedorf would be starting. Three defenders and 5 midfielders.

 

[mhflierman]

Originally posted by HeartsFC
Umm, any idea who will replace Stam in central defence?

Also, the only thing good to come out of Holland is Mark De Vries, what a hero.

I think Scotland losing Chris Dailly is a bigger loss to you then us losing Stam. We hardly needed to defend on saturday, Fred Bouma has been called up and will probably play in the centre.

We weren't outplayed on saturday, we were on the wrong end of luck, but didn't play good either. We didn't win the midfield battle. The ball circulation was way too low. Our build up took way too long, everytime we were getting near the goal, there were 10 scots behind the ball already. We lost this game because of our midfield play, or lack there of.

Cocu was ineffective, Overmars didn't get past his marker enough. You could see that when Van der Vaart entered we created more.

My line up on wednesday, +explanation:
It's extremely attacking, effectively playing with Ooijer and Bouma as real defenders, Reiziger and Zenden as attacking backs, supporting Davids's midfield defensive duties.

Davids playing the holdiong role in midfield, winning balls. A midfield consisting of Van der Meyde, Van der Vaart and Robben. Van der Meyde did good on saturday, Van der Vaart has the creativity we need and Robben is a good replacement for Overmars. He's young, eager and plays good for PSV.

As strikers I'd use Van Nistelrooij who did well, but was played only at head level, getting owned by that long Scottish guy. Van Hooijdonk should be able to get to that scottish guy and cause trouble in the box.

It's a bit expermimental, but the way we tried to break down the Scots on satruday just didn't work.

 

[Jambo Den]

Dailly is a massive loss, was an inspirational figure to the team, and summed up our spirit yesterday. Provided invaluable cover to the central defence, who also did an excellent job (Wilkie mopped up everything, excellently guided through by the solid composure of Elvis - he is captain material Berti!)

My lineup wouldn't really have many alterations to it, as we KNOW they are not as close knit a unit as us, or have the same drive and passion as us. We do this and it will be VERY difficult for any side. Use it Berti, use it!

--------------Douglas
Ross---Wilkie---Elvis---Naysmith
------------McNamara
Fletcher-----------------McCann
-------Dickov----McFadden

We basically get this away goal and the dream almost becomes reality.

 

[Jambo Den]

Before someone says I missed out Barry Ferguson, well he doesnt count as he's never played for Scotland in his career.

 

[shokz]

you love barry ferguson, admit it.

 

[Jambo Den]

Yep, who doesn't love his 10 yard sideways passes or his shirking from tackles?

 

[Dream Team]

The lesson was the last world cup.

 

[Han]

Originally posted by mhflierman

As strikers I'd use Van Nistelrooij who did well, but was played only at head level, getting owned by that long Scottish guy. Van Hooijdonk should be able to get to that scottish guy and cause trouble in the box.

It's a bit expermimental, but the way we tried to break down the Scots on satruday just didn't work.

Your line-up isn't bad at all. I was thinking too to select van Hooijdonck, because I expect us to get some free kicks and then he comes in handy!
In defence I expect Ooyer-Reiziger-de Boer, only playing three at the back.
I think Overmars will be replaced by Robben and van der Vaart will start as well.

This way I expect fireworks... ending in a score which wakens the Scots from their dream: 3-0

 

[Celt]

That looks like a tough team. I (being just a stupid American, I know) can't understand why the Dutch don't seem to do well. There's just so much sheer talent available. Frankly, I'd kill for the chance to manage the Netherlands NT.

 

[AberdeenFC]

Originally posted by HeartsFC
Umm, any idea who will replace Stam in central defence?

Also, the only thing good to come out of Holland is Mark De Vries, what a hero.

lies, its just lies. Hans Gillhaus and Theo Snelders are dutch legends

 

[IceBlu]

any chance of Dailly making it ? i heard that Scotland were going to appeal and stuff ?

i know its a long shot but is there the slightest possibility ?

 

[AberdeenFC]

Originally posted by mhflierman
IAs strikers I'd use Van Nistelrooij who did well, but was played only at head level, getting owned by that long Scottish guy. Van Hooijdonk should be able to get to that scottish guy and cause trouble in the box.

hahahahahahaha!! i never thought i'de see the day that Lee Wilkie OWNED the one and only Ruud Van Nistelrooy! unbelielable that guy couldnt handle a pair of tits. but yesterday he was immense more of that on wednesday Lee! dont want another thread about ur latest blunder!!

oh and ice there going to appeal against the booking, but its highly unlikely it will be wiped