The English Premier League Discussion Thread

[Xifio]

firstly, Gomes sucks ... he's always been error-prone since I first saw him for PSV, and that makes him a constant liability ... IMO, it's not a surprise that a mediocre 40-year-old easily surpassed him ...

and Spurs are good? really? they've got a few talented players, but Harry's system, just like every 4-4-2 including Man Yoo's is outdated; but unlike Srallex's team, they aren't an effective / last-gasp unit ...

as for keeping players:

- Raffie's been mouthing off a lot, and may leave as early as the winter window (hopefully to Milan) ...

- Redknapp's all but confirmed as the next England boss after the EUROs ... it seems to me like he's just going through the motions of getting through this season (he's tangibly aware that last season's Champions League participation was his peak at Spurs, and there's little he can do this season to match, let alone top, it) ...

- the new manager may not mind giving Spurs consent to cash in on a big-money offer for Luka, to have a bigger transfer kitty to bring in his own players ... and Bale may go too, if another monster offer arrives ... it'll surely be a rebuilding summer/year for Spurs ... and considering it's not exactly clear who their new manager will be, Spurs' future (immediate or long-term) is still up in the air ...

 

[Mandieta6]

Friedel is not mediocre, he's excellent.

 

[ShiftyPowers]

firstly, Gomes sucks ... he's always been error-prone since I first saw him for PSV, and that makes him a constant liability ... IMO, it's not a surprise that a mediocre 40-year-old easily surpassed him ...

and Spurs are good? really? they've got a few talented players, but Harry's system, just like every 4-4-2 including Man Yoo's is outdated; but unlike Srallex's team, they aren't an effective / last-gasp unit ...

as for keeping players:

- Raffie's been mouthing off a lot, and may leave as early as the winter window (hopefully to Milan) ...

- Redknapp's all but confirmed as the next England boss after the EUROs ... it seems to me like he's just going through the motions of getting through this season (he's tangibly aware that last season's Champions League participation was his peak at Spurs, and there's little he can do this season to match, let alone top, it) ...

- the new manager may not mind giving Spurs consent to cash in on a big-money offer for Luka, to have a bigger transfer kitty to bring in his own players ... and Bale may go too, if another monster offer arrives ... it'll surely be a rebuilding summer/year for Spurs ... and considering it's not exactly clear who their new manager will be, Spurs' future (immediate or long-term) is still up in the air ...

Raffie's been a pain in the ass his entire career everywhere he's ever been, and for the amount of money they'll get (particularly if it's in January), they would be stupid not to sell. I agree his transfer is imminent. The defense is quite good, the midfield is arguably the best in England (perhaps behind Chelsea), and as I said Adebayor is the missing piece. He wouldn't be my first choice (I'd buy rather someone more consistent next summer), but he's good and highly motivated. I disagree this is a rebuilding time for them, I think if they make the CL again they can keep Modric and Bale, and then afford to make another VdV-esque blockbuster transfer.

 

[Xifio]

Raffie's been a pain in the ass his entire career everywhere he's ever been

haha, what?

and for the amount of money they'll get (particularly if it's in January), they would be stupid not to sell.

they bought him for peanuts + the player wants to leave = they're not going to get much (if it's Milan, expect a loan deal in Jan + a sub-10 mil signing option) ...

I disagree this is a rebuilding time for them, I think if they make the CL again they can keep Modric and Bale, and then afford to make another VdV-esque blockbuster transfer.

I said that next summer and the ensuing season would be a rebuilding now EDIT: rebuilding *period ... right now, I believe it's more "going through the motions" ... at best they're competing for the last Champion League spot, and I don't think they'll make it -- especially if they lose Raffie in the winter ... heck, I'm not convinced they'll make Europe (through the league) at all ...

 

[ShiftyPowers]

Van der Vaart was a whining little bitch at Ajax, and he did the same at Madrid. Usually because he was put on the bench. He seems to think he's Maradona, but he's not even as good as Modric. There's a reason he's the odd man out in the Dutch National Team when everyone is fit.

If you think Spurs will struggle, you're crazy. 4 wins in 6 games including big wins over Liverpool and Arsenal. Losses to United and City when they were fielding a weakened side, but those were their first two games of the year and haven't lost since in any competition. Not sure why you think they are weak. I suspect you just don't like 'Arry for not sucking off Raffie at every turn although naturally I agree with you that they should be playing 4-2-3-1 at all times to accommodate their best players.

 

[Xifio]

it feels like you're trying to implicitly insult me, coz I don't agree with you, or coz I called the American Friedel mediocre, or both ...

that said, on with the reply:

Van der Vaart was a whining little bitch at Ajax, and he did the same at Madrid. Usually because he was put on the bench. He seems to think he's Maradona, but he's not even as good as Modric. There's a reason he's the odd man out in the Dutch National Team when everyone is fit.

both comparisons are pointless coz Rafaël plays 'in the hole', while Luka plays deeper than that, and Maradona was a free-role forward ...

he's the vice-captain for Holland, and the best passer in the team by a long way ... the midfield setup usually sees van Marwijk's son-in-law, van der Vaart, and Sneijder line up ...

but Bert is cautious in bigger games, and plays 2 DMs (or at least a less attack-minded CM) instead of just 1 ... with a counterattacking, rather than a traditional possesion-based, system, you can understand why the chary van Marwijk would prefer Wes ...

If you think Spurs will struggle, you're crazy. 4 wins in 6 games including big wins over Liverpool and Arsenal. Losses to United and City when they were fielding a weakened side, but those were their first two games of the year and haven't lost since in any competition. Not sure why you think they are weak.

well they lost on pens to Stoke in the League Cup ... anyway, they're on a good run in the league with some high-profile wins, but they lack the depth to make it last for the whole season ...

I suspect you just don't like 'Arry for not sucking off Raffie at every turn although naturally I agree with you that they should be playing 4-2-3-1 at all times to accommodate their best players.

when did I say that I don't like him? I remember posting positively on SG about 'Arry 'Oudini since back in his Pompey days ... I just think 4-4-2 is a relic of the past ... we agree that 4-2-3-1 is the way to go for Spurs, so I'll leave it at that ... but I still think he knows his highlight for Spurs will be his Champions League season, and he's mentally preparing for England duty ...

 

[ShiftyPowers]

I'm not implicitly trying to insult you, I'm merely making light (not for the first time) that you have VERY clear preferences for certain players, and don't see clearly when it comes to them. Raffie and Zlatan are two of the biggest or maybe the two biggest, which I don't think is a coincidence since they were the biggest stars at Ajax at the same time and I imagine when you were there too? I could honestly care less about Friedel, he retired from the National Team almost 7 years ago and speaks with an English accent. Aside from 3 weeks in 2002 he's never been one of my favorite players although I certainly don't dislike him.

I disagree about their depth, I think Defoe and Adebayor are fine up top if only one is used; the midfield is absolutely packed with Parker, Modric, Raffie, Sandro, Kranjcar, and Sandro; and there are a lot of solid defenders in the side as well. Maybe some lack of depth on the wing, but Bale doesn't seem to get injured and Lennon is pretty hardy too; and I also think if they were forced to actually play Gio 'Arry would be pleasantly surprised.

Finally, mentioning Raffie, Maradona, and Modric had nothing to do with where they play on the field, but rather overall ability. Okay... Raffie thinks he's Zidane, but in reality he's no better than Aimar.

 

[Arnau]

Van der Vaart is an humble dude, people think he is arrogant, same goes to Thiago, but it isn't so. I don't remember any trouble caused by him when he was at Madrid, with Juande him and Sneijder haven't played much minutes but with Pellegrini was regular starter and had a great season.

 

[ShiftyPowers]

I was actually just reading an article on Jozy Altidore and he said that he liked Pelligrini a lot at Villarreal too. Seems like a genuinely good dude who cares about young players and development. Shame he took that awful awful merry-go-round job at Madrid. I think Pelligrini sold all the Dutchies though, although it was almost certainly not his idea.

EDIT: My bad, Raffie stayed a Madrid a year longer than the other Orangemen.

 

[Arnau]

Actually, Pellegrini wanted to keep Sneijder and Robben but Florentino were still boss. Was unfair to fire him, he did the greatest season ever in terms of points (flop in copa and CL though).

 

[poet11]

Van der Vaart doesn't play in the NT due to a lack of top class defenders. It forces the coach to use two holding midfielders. Other than that I can't see why VdV doesn't get to start. There could have been great two great partnerships....VdV+RvP and Sneijder+Robben.

Regarding club level football..........VdV is just stupid. There has to be issues why big clubs don't want him but Milan would be perfect for him and he might be perfect for Milan. But they might go for a defensive midfielder. I just want him out of ****e Hart Lane.

 

[Xifio]

I'm not implicitly trying to insult you

Raffie thinks he's Zidane, but in reality he's no better than Aimar.

van der Vaart has never boasted about his ability, so clearly this is a dig at my rating of his ability, which is a dig at me ... doesn't matter, but it is what it is ... and anyway, considering that you think van der Vaart has been a troublemaker in his career, your opinion of him lacks credibility ...

I'm merely making light (not for the first time) that you have VERY clear preferences for certain players, and don't see clearly when it comes to them. Raffie and Zlatan are two of the biggest or maybe the two biggest, which I don't think is a coincidence since they were the biggest stars at Ajax at the same time and I imagine when you were there too?

very clear preferences? they're my favourite players whose careers I follow: Ronaldo, Kluivert, and Figo and in the 90s and early 00s; Zlatan, Raffie, and Cassano since (though even I thought Cassano, during his pastry stage, would go the way of Dani) ...

oh, and yeah, no coincidence about the Ajax thing:

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I disagree about their depth, I think Defoe and Adebayor are fine up top if only one is used; the midfield is absolutely packed with Parker, Modric, Raffie, Sandro, Kranjcar, and Sandro; and there are a lot of solid defenders in the side as well. Maybe some lack of depth on the wing, but Bale doesn't seem to get injured and Lennon is pretty hardy too; and I also think if they were forced to actually play Gio 'Arry would be pleasantly surprised.

well, 'Arry said, in response to van der Vaart implying that he won't play "on the wing" anymore, that it's Defoe vs. van der Vaart for that spot alongside/behind the striker ... I think that's a joke, but then again, I would ... if it means Milan snap up Raffie because of this mess, I'll be delighted ...

I watched a lot of Spurs last season (getting to know van der Vaart's team) ... Kranjčar cut a really sorry figure the few times he got to sit on the bench -- he knows he doesn't have better wage and lifestyle options than with Spurs in London, so he's going to ride it out ... Redknapp's lack of faith in him is unbelievably clear ... and when he's played him, it's been on the wing ... Redknapp's faith in Gio's work ethic is even less ... and I don't know if Gio speaks English sufficiently / at all, yet, which will irk an Englishman like 'Arry who's decidedly a monoglot ...

Luka is quality, and he has no replacement in the squad ...

Sandro's pretty good ... Parker is decent ...

Huddlestone's injured so much he's hardly had a chance to change my mind about his abilities ... Pienaar (another quality ex-Ajacied) has also struggled with injuries ... after the injured options, you're looking at the likes of Danny Rose in midfield ...

and I'm not convinced 'Arry's got the usual drive this season to really squeeze the best out of his squad -- he's looking to close out on a decently positive note, before moving onto bigger things ...

I've made my judgment clear based on my criteria ... you've made your's ... we'll check up on them in a few weeks ... EDIT: kinda reminds me of our Cesc Fàbregas discussion/argument at the beginning of the summer; look how that turned out ...

 

[ShiftyPowers]

Well, the Cesc thing was based on pure "feel" and speculation; whether Spurs are good one can just watch them play and decide.

I agree about Kranjcar, he is just not a good player right now, in fact he was the main reason they looked so sorry against the Manchester sides (also Modric moping around didn't help). Anyway, if you count Raffie as a striker and don't count Kranjcar, there are still, by my count, 8 upper Premiership quality midfielders in the squad. Even with injuries that should be sufficient.

EDIT: In no way did I intend to take a dig at your rating of van der Vaart, nor do I see any possible way you could have thought that from anything I said.

 

[Mandieta6]

both comparisons are pointless coz Rafaël plays 'in the hole', while Luka plays deeper than that, and Maradona was a free-role forward ...

Yet you mocked me for comparing two similar players who had very different overall ability.

Regarding Kranjcar, he was brought in to act as a replacement for an injured Modric, which at the time made sense, because Modric was envisioned as a No. 10 when he was bought, but his game is different and Kranjcar can't emulate him. He's good if played in his role, but he never gets to. Kind of harsh to criticise him for his poor performances in centre midfield, since he was asked to contain the Manchester sides, and there's no way he can do that.

If Sandro is pretty good, Parker is brilliant. And that's true, Sandro is pretty good, Parker is brilliant.

Spurs have a good squad and a good starting 11, and they've managed to off-load some fringe players and hold on to their better players, and if they keep doing that and keep investing (and they have so far), they should get 4th, what with Pool not quite gelled and Arsenal imploding. If they get 4th, they should hang on to Bale, Modric, etc for another year, at least.

 

[Mandieta6]

Liverpool, Manchester United and Arsenal are interested in Plymouth's 16-year-old winger Matt Lecointe, who is rated as "the next Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain".

Seriously? The NEXT Oxlade-Chamberlain? As in, someone who will become a lower-tier winger and move to a big club and make an appearance or two?

 

[Filipower]

Hahahaha the next Oxlade-Chamberlain

 

[Xifio]

Yet you mocked me for comparing two similar players who had very different overall ability.

the joke was in "stubborn" ...

 

[Mandieta6]

No, you mocked the idea of comparing Bannan and Iniesta. That's what I'm referring to.

 

[ShiftyPowers]

That comparison soundly deserved to be mocked.

 

[Mandieta6]

Because comparing players simply based on their overall ability is better?

Bannan has a similar style, in the way he plays, to Iniesta. He's not as good, he might never be as good, but he plays in the same manner. I've gone over why, I'd be happy to do so again since he's quickly become one of my favorites and I'd be glad to discuss him. But you're only mocking the comparison because of his reputation, I don't think you've even seen him play.