violence in Italy

[farmboy]

this is becoming cliche

a sadly unfortunate truth

 

[KingPaulV]

so then perhaps, they should ban italy, I mean, I think it worked for England, Hooliganism is not nearly what it was; Only a major slam down from FIFA is going to make Italians realize that this has to stop

 

[Kanchelskis]

Despite some racist comments here (and I suppose also that some of you retain yourselves more civil than an Italian barbar with his mouth full of blood...), I'll try to explain the situation that is not clear even here.

Sunday morning some (idiot) boys were kicking themselves in the major motorway station. The cops were on the other side of the motorway, and one of them shooted (no clear why) one time in air, and the next on them. Is possible that the broil was just ended when the cop shooted. This event DIDN'T MATCH anything with italian football, and was a tragedy caused by an accident (or better, a policeman who was not psichologically prepared for the situation).
The only connection between the murder and the football was that them were going to watch a match, but there's nothing else.

The big chaos of the afternoon is a medias' and police's guilt. The first ones started to talk about "violence in football", "hooligans" for their speculation but it was nothing TRUE. It was only a murder for an human error!
The police has confirmed (not now) these news to try to cover the policeman, but there were some witnesses.

Some italian fans, which are (fortunately) MINORITIES, with the pretext of the fact, has started to destroy everything but because they are CRIMINALS and don't care about football, but only to give vent to their sad life and their ******* frustrations.

By now, the first decision is to block the leagues for a week or two and to forbid away public for our matches.

This is sad, but the situation is a collapse of two small sides of italian ******* football, the government body who can't manage the situations and some minorities whom MUST BE BANNED FROM STADIUMS FOR THEIR ENTIRE LIFES.

But please don't judge Italy for some idiots.. and come here, we won't kill you.

(sorry for my english, I'm writing fast)

 

[Theodorakis]

haha.. it`s a perfectly understandable reaction but expect some under-quality shooting jokes, mostly by dragan, occasionally when the word `italian` comes at the scene, kanchelskis.. dont be disheartened, you`re warned

 

[TheGrimSweeper]

The sad part is suspending and banning people from matches only punishes the true fans not the idiots who go to cause ****.

 

[Kanchelskis]

The sad part is suspending and banning people from matches only punishes the true fans not the idiots who go to cause ****.

This is right, but what to do then?

 

[El Diablo Rojo]

They could either play the matches at empty stadiums or suspend football until they come up with a better plan. They'll realize how stupid is banning away supporters when a home crowd causes disturbs, i think it happens more often than an away crowd causing trouble.

 

[snoppf1]

Ok so everyone understands

The hooligans in England in the 80's were different to the hooligans over the world,

In England the hooligans were just nutters who supported their team, went to every match etc.. caused fights and that was it

In Italy and all over the world, the hooligans/ultras are WOVEN INTO THE CLUB ITSELF, THEY ARE PART OR THE CLUBS STRUCTURE.

Some ultras have the power to have a seat or a representative in the clubs BOARD OF DIRECTORS. Infact most are allowed to maintain the clubs stadium facilities and give stadium tours.

This is why its so hard to kick these guys out. in England, they simply banned the nutters from going to matches, put a zero tolerance on violence in football and that was that.

If you did this in say, italy the whole club would have to re structure.

still, the punishments given are too light imo.

 

[El Diablo Rojo]

After the Heysel Disaster England were banned for 5 years. Though Liverpool were banned for 6 years.

Now that i think so, didn't the real comeback against hooliganism in England come after the Hillsborough disaster?

In Italy and all over the world, the hooligans/ultras are WOVEN INTO THE CLUB ITSELF, THEY ARE PART OR THE CLUBS STRUCTURE.

Some ultras have the power to have a seat or a representative in the clubs BOARD OF DIRECTORS. Infact most are allowed to maintain the clubs stadium facilities and give stadium tours.

Argentina, and at some point Brazil, could be a good example of that.
Lately the activities of River Plate's group, los borrachos del tablón, became more relevant after the group seems to be divided and had multiple battles between themselves, the top of that was the murder of a River Plate supporter on the street, who was part of one of these groups. Currently los borrachos del tablón are divided in 2 groups, apparently their conflicts are a matter of money, besides power obviously, some months ago it was known that los borrachos del tablón get a percentage of River Plate player's transfers to other clubs, i think it's just a 2% but still.
The problem is when someone from a club board, let it be the president himself, tries to oppose these groups they don't get any protection from authorities and they may suffer constant threats or even attacks. Also it's believed, and may be true, that the police lets some of these groups do their will and act freely, like the part of the police may have some kind of dirty business with them, i don't know if this may apply to the italian police though.

 

[KingPaulV]

I know that in Argentina, Brazil Italy, and maybe perhaps Scotland, what was described earlier is very true, very much Ultras are interwoven into the frabric of the club. But the example that has been set forth by England; as far as limiting the influence of hooliganism must be followed; regardless of the fact that hooligans were not as Ultras in some countries, violence was not tolerated in England and I think it has paid off. In Spain particularly, apart from the regional rivalries which sometimes can get quite nasty, but that are mostly limited to individual rather than group actions, I think they are the best example. Of course, the rivalry that my team and Barca live, is far from examplary, it is more a lesson on Spanish history than football and it too carries major political understones, but at least, it has remained civil for the most part in these later years.

 

[RobbieD_PL]

Are Italian Ultras predetermining dates for riots? It's as if you have simultaneous chaos all over the country.

 

[KingPaulV]

well I guess they are reacting to what happened, as a unified front, I guess they think its cute or something....lousy bastards....they ruin the image of Italy worldwide, and the image of football world wide....

Here in the US, it is very rare for football, (or soccer) to make the headlines in the sports shows, and it pisses me off when the headlines we make are for negative reasons, such as these riots in Italy...I know some of that has to do with the pre-stablished american bias towards Footy, but still, when things like this happen in such a high profile footballing country (current world champions) it doesnt help.

 

[Theodorakis]

Ok so everyone understands

The hooligans in England in the 80's were different to the hooligans over the world,

In England the hooligans were just nutters who supported their team, went to every match etc.. caused fights and that was it

In Italy and all over the world, the hooligans/ultras are WOVEN INTO THE CLUB ITSELF, THEY ARE PART OR THE CLUBS STRUCTURE.

Some ultras have the power to have a seat or a representative in the clubs BOARD OF DIRECTORS. Infact most are allowed to maintain the clubs stadium facilities and give stadium tours.

This is why its so hard to kick these guys out. in England, they simply banned the nutters from going to matches, put a zero tolerance on violence in football and that was that.

If you did this in say, italy the whole club would have to re structure.

still, the punishments given are too light imo.

so true, mate.. perfectly put together.. sorry for stealing the topic but the situation is also the same in Turkey.. regardless of the ref events in matches, you can always hear an official whining for the ref from the club representative..

disgusting..

 

[snoppf1]

Are Italian Ultras predetermining dates for riots? It's as if you have simultaneous chaos all over the country.

no, actually lol, this is what the new age of english hooligans do, they have fights away from grounds, there all organised these days.

 

[JJSFC]

The wops should be banned right away!
They should have been banned ages ago...

 

[El Diablo Rojo]

no, actually lol, this is what the new age of english hooligans do, they have fights away from grounds, there all organised these days.

So, in England they kicked hooligans out of stadiums but hooligans still cause troubles outside?