What Do You Know About Corinthians?

[tinytim]

it seems quite a stupid topic in the middle of so many european guys, but I'm assuming many here do watch brazilian football or appreciate football in a general way.

and well, the reason of this question started to grow since Sao Paulo's title in Libertadores...

i gotta to explain this, and I hope sao paulo 'bambi' fans won't get mad...but in brazil, specially in Sao Paulo (the state where Corinthians is) there are two kind of teams and fans: corinthians and anti-corinthians, corinthians fans and anti-corinthians fans.

so, right after Sao Paulo's conquer, the old question raised by sao paulo fans is the fact that Sao Paulo has international reputation, bigger than Corinthians because of its international titles...and every football fan disregard Corinthians FIFA World Cup of Clubs Title in 2000.

So, I'd like to know it from you, just to clarify things and state the true values to some of my sao paulo fans mates:

1 - How well known Corinthians is around?

2 - How well know Sao Paulo FC is?

3 - Do you recognize Corinthians World Cup of Clubs Title as official?

u tell me folks...

and...please, I'm not trying to provoke Sao Paulo fans here...let's keep this discussion a discussion...or it will get pointless.

yeah, kids, our questions are big...hehehe...

 

[Mikey]

its a passage in the bible right?

 

[tinytim]

its a passage in the bible right?

it's a book from bible actually...not a passage.

and the team with the 2nd biggest number of fans in brasil - the 1st biggest number of really active ones (flamengo's are quitters...specially due to their team's awful performance last years...it is sad, i like flamengo, but...facts are facts).

 

[WilliamFAlmeida]

they are frickers.....thats all I know!
VERDAO!!!
Vai ser Campeao!!!
Com LEAO!!!!

 

[Elber2k3]

1 - How well known Corinthians is around?
They are from Brazil.

2 - How well know Sao Paulo FC is?
They are from Brazil and the son of a bitch Amoroso plays there.

3 - Do you recognize Corinthians World Cup of Clubs Title as official?
What?

 

[Kibe Kru]

Corinthians are the best brazilian club. Period.
ok... serious now...

After Tevez and MSI people know a bit about them... but still it's not like they really know the club, their rivals or such, as they know Boca/River...

About the World Club Championship...
Bambis (sao Paulo supporters) say the title won by Corinthians in 2000 isn't official, or at least can't be considered a world championship because it was held in Brazil and the final was between two brazilian teams... actually they say that because they won the toyota cup twice, and corinthians fans say the toyota is not recognized by FIFA and such... so, it's down to my dad's bigger than yours....

Of course the Corinthians title is official, and bambis are just jealous... of course, they can win it this year... but let's hope not...

Oh, and don't worry about teasing them bambis... I guess there isn't any around here... maybe Grunge is a Sao Paulo follower, but he supports Guarani (haha Campinas!) so it's not a big deal... j/k

 

[pasion1]

it seems quite a stupid topic in the middle of so many european guys, but I'm assuming many here do watch brazilian football or appreciate football in a general way.

and well, the reason of this question started to grow since Sao Paulo's title in Libertadores...

i gotta to explain this, and I hope sao paulo 'bambi' fans won't get mad...but in brazil, specially in Sao Paulo (the state where Corinthians is) there are two kind of teams and fans: corinthians and anti-corinthians, corinthians fans and anti-corinthians fans.

so, right after Sao Paulo's conquer, the old question raised by sao paulo fans is the fact that Sao Paulo has international reputation, bigger than Corinthians because of its international titles...and every football fan disregard Corinthians FIFA World Cup of Clubs Title in 2000.

So, I'd like to know it from you, just to clarify things and state the true values to some of my sao paulo fans mates:

1 - How well known Corinthians is around?

2 - How well know Sao Paulo FC is?

3 - Do you recognize Corinthians World Cup of Clubs Title as official?

u tell me folks...

and...please, I'm not trying to provoke Sao Paulo fans here...let's keep this discussion a discussion...or it will get pointless.

yeah, kids, our questions are big...hehehe...

This is a great thread since I always wondered what many people around the world thought about the big south american clubs (Boca, River, Corinthians, Sao Pablo, Penarol, Nacional, Olimpia etc) (or vice versa)

1) I know that Corinthians may have the largest fan base on earth. It's just incredible.

2) Sao Pablo? Well they must know it in Japan as Captan Tsubasa Played there . But Sao Pablo is known....but not THAT famous (as their only history came in the last 10-11 years and recently....just now). But they are WAY bigger than Corinthians. HAving alot of fans means nothing if you have no titles to back it up. Corinthians is "famous" for their fans....but compared to Boca, they aren't seen anywhere near that level (in terms of recognition, respect...etc)

3) No no....HELL NO. That tournament is now just known as a "famous" friendly tournament (just cause of the teams that showed up). But that year Boca beat Real MAdrid and cancelled that one out (The hate for Boca grows stronger than ever in Brazil)


Good Thread. Everyone has different opinions on what they think of a club. IE: In Europe they still think of Penarol as in the same level as Boca/River (even more so)....because they WERE the most famous club from south america from 1960- 1989 (just recently they've been slumping). But winnign 5 Libertadores and 3 World Club cups is pretty damn huge (they were even recognized by Canadian TV here as they showed the "ELite 5" of teams who won 3 Intercontinentals (Milan (Italy), MAdrid (Spain), Penarol (Uruguay), Nacional (Uruguay), and BOca (Argentina).
<Hmm...pretty funny that the 5 greatest clubs of all time are pretty much of the same race (URuguay and Argentina are made up of Italian/Spanish settlers).>

It hurts to see that Nacional isnt as famous....but I see all the time that even casual Canadian fans know of Penarol. (that's huge)

Anyways, I kinda went off topic. But I'd like to see what people think of OTHER clubs too (IE: Celtic, Man U, Chivas) all around the world. (in term of respect, etc)
Good topic.

 

[pasion1]

Corinthians are the best brazilian club. Period.
ok... serious now...

After Tevez and MSI people know a bit about them... but still it's not like they really know the club, their rivals or such, as they know Boca/River...

About the World Club Championship...
Bambis (sao Paulo supporters) say the title won by Corinthians in 2000 isn't official, or at least can't be considered a world championship because it was held in Brazil and the final was between two brazilian teams... actually they say that because they won the toyota cup twice, and corinthians fans say the toyota is not recognized by FIFA and such... so, it's down to my dad's bigger than yours....

Of course the Corinthians title is official, and bambis are just jealous... of course, they can win it this year... but let's hope not...

Oh, and don't worry about teasing them bambis... I guess there isn't any around here... maybe Grunge is a Sao Paulo follower, but he supports Guarani (haha Campinas!) so it's not a big deal... j/k

What are you talking about?

I think Corinthian fans are the only people on earth who consider that a "World Club Cup"

And the Toyota Intercontinental Cup IS supported by Fifa. Everyone knows that. (Blatter himself goes to present the cup too even). Not supported by FIFA?
Dude, don't say that just Corinthians never won it (I'm sure you'd be about to say the Libertadores isn't official either right?)

Even go to team sites and in their history it would say like "1999, Manchester becomes World Champions after beating Palmeiras 1-0"

It's just that they found that way too many people complained that the Cup could only be decided between South America/Europe..........so it's between everyone (though realistically, in the 80's and mid 90's South aMerica/Europe would have wiped the floor with any asian/african/north american team so it wouldnt have made a difference if they played or not).

If you are a Corinthians fan (which seems you are) then you wouldnt know anything of how freaken nervous people get before an Intercontinental. People get days off the next day (since the game is so early). In South America it's usually called the "World Cup final" when they talk about it (In Europe they view it as a little less than what the Champ's League final is....since they are the favorites all the time). But in South america it's the MAIN goal and what all teams think about when starting pre-season. (Ever seen a Euro team wear "Japan bands" or carry JApan Flags after winning the CL?....In South america fans it's normal.

 

[Kibe Kru]

What are you talking about?

I think Corinthian fans are the only people on earth who consider that a "World Club Cup"

And the Toyota Intercontinental Cup IS supported by Fifa. Everyone knows that. (Blatter himself goes to present the cup too even). Not supported by FIFA?
Dude, don't say that just Corinthians never won it (I'm sure you'd be about to say the Libertadores isn't official either right?)

Even go to team sites and in their history it would say like "1999, Manchester becomes World Champions after beating Palmeiras 1-0"

It's just that they found that way too many people complained that the Cup could only be decided between South America/Europe..........so it's between everyone (though realistically, in the 80's and mid 90's South aMerica/Europe would have wiped the floor with any asian/african/north american team so it wouldnt have made a difference if they played or not).

If you are a Corinthians fan (which seems you are) then you wouldnt know anything of how freaken nervous people get before an Intercontinental. People get days off the next day (since the game is so early). In South America it's usually called the "World Cup final" when they talk about it (In Europe they view it as a little less than what the Champ's League final is....since they are the favorites all the time). But in South america it's the MAIN goal and what all teams think about when starting pre-season. (Ever seen a Euro team wear "Japan bands" or carry JApan Flags after winning the CL?....In South america fans it's normal.

Whoa calm down mate...
I never said I consider the Toyota to be a lesser cup, I just pointed out many people do that because they lessen the importance of the club world championship...
The competition is official, whether or not you like it... sure, it may have no history compared to the toyota, but it's still official... not like the Ramon de Carranza or the Pachuca tournament...
The fact that Corinthians fans point out, that the Toyota isn't important becausae it isn't a FIFA tournament, is actually flawed, since the Copa America isn't a FIFA tournament (it's a conmebol one) either, and everyone knows how important it is... (FIFA used to deal only with National teams, and the first club competition with their brand on it was the world club championship in 2000 - like the FIFA world cup, the FIFA Confed cup and FIFA world club championship, but not FIFA Toyota Cup... I hope I explained it ok)
The toyota has been extinct, or renamed, to the world club championship, and whether or not you like it, Corinthians won it first...
Sure, the toyota winner was considered world champions because there is no other championship that puts the winner of the Libertadores against the CL winner... but then people can argue it's not a world championship because it has no Africa/Asia... the "would wipe the floor" argument is flawed... because Italy would "Wipe the floor" with the North Koreans in '66... or England would trash USA in '50...
Of course I know how important the toyota cup is... Many friends of mine went to Japan to see the pigs lose to the scum... like I said, Corinthians fans will brag about their title, and every other supporter in earth would say it isn't important... it's football, and discussion is a part of it... no need to come all aggressive on me...

 

[pasion1]

Whoa calm down mate...
I never said I consider the Toyota to be a lesser cup, I just pointed out many people do that because they lessen the importance of the club world championship...
The competition is official, whether or not you like it... sure, it may have no history compared to the toyota, but it's still official... not like the Ramon de Carranza or the Pachuca tournament...
The fact that Corinthians fans point out, that the Toyota isn't important becausae it isn't a FIFA tournament, is actually flawed, since the Copa America isn't a FIFA tournament (it's a conmebol one) either, and everyone knows how important it is... (FIFA used to deal only with National teams, and the first club competition with their brand on it was the world club championship in 2000 - like the FIFA world cup, the FIFA Confed cup and FIFA world club championship, but not FIFA Toyota Cup... I hope I explained it ok)
The toyota has been extinct, or renamed, to the world club championship, and whether or not you like it, Corinthians won it first...
Sure, the toyota winner was considered world champions because there is no other championship that puts the winner of the Libertadores against the CL winner... but then people can argue it's not a world championship because it has no Africa/Asia... the "would wipe the floor" argument is flawed... because Italy would "Wipe the floor" with the North Koreans in '66... or England would trash USA in '50...
Of course I know how important the toyota cup is... Many friends of mine went to Japan to see the pigs lose to the scum... like I said, Corinthians fans will brag about their title, and every other supporter in earth would say it isn't important... it's football, and discussion is a part of it... no need to come all aggressive on me...

Don't think I was being aggressive just because I typed so much (I generally type a lot). My bad if it looked like I was pissed though.

Anyways, National Teams in 1950 are different. You can't think that an African Club could have beaten Liverpool 81-82, Penarol 81-82 or Boca 78. It wasn't even worth playing.

You should take a look at the FIFA World Club part of "Fifa.com". And then you'll see that even that site didn't consider it "the official world championship"

"in 2000, FIFA sponsored the the international tournament of the year as various teams travelled to Brazil." (i'm paraphrasing)

I remember TV from Colombia, Uruguay, Argentina, Mexico arguing about who was the real world champ (soccer shows). And all agreed by a huge margin that it was Boca and not Corinthians (you can't have 2 World Champs). So that tournament (while called the World Club Championship) is pretty much seen now as just another international tournament with some importance.

Sure...you can say that you won that tournament (and it does mean something. I mean you did have Man U in there and everything). So sure you have bragging rights....but it's as if Uruguay bragged about winning "3 World Cups" after winning the 1980 Gold World Cup (just because it had the name "World Cup" in there.....and I'm pretty sure "FIFA" too )

Dude, I know how this must bother you. But when pretty much 100% of the Teams on earth (except Corinthians) consider Boca the world champ that year, there's no point arguing.

But It's easy for me to talk. I mean they did just literally STEAL a World Cup from you guys....I'd be pissed.

I remember last year I went to an English school and there were Colombians, MExicans, Argentinians and 3-4 Brazilians. 1 of those was a rabbid Corinthians fan who argued till death that they were "World Champs" (while the other Brazilians obviously argued against him as any chance to take that title away from Corinthians is welcome).

I remember like 20 kids screaming "NO!!" at the same time while he said that it was true. It was crazy. I swear to god it almost ended in a Fist fight! The Argument got so intense that the Argentinian guys just like started pushing/slapping him. (I didn't do anything though....But I did argue against him of course).

What I mean to say is: Fifa already declared that the Intercontinental winners are World Champs in the history books. But there's been so much confusion and argument (over why Asia/Africa/Oceania can't compete) that they created the new Cup (World Club Cup.....and since no more Toyota.....this one counts). And I think it's called the "Toyota World Club Cup" too.

To sum that it's like Fifa got up and said: "OK! Everyone Shut up! All the last champs for the Toyota Cup are the World Champs. But from NOW ON, THIS cup will be the WOrld Cup.

But anyways, I agree and understand how you feel because I'd be really pissed too. I'd be fighting hard to keep my 1 World Cup (which seems like nothing for me....cause we have 3. But that's irelevant.). But now if Corinthians wants to show the world that they are the best there is and worthy of being in same sentense with Milan/Real Madrid.....they should have no problem winning the World Club Cup in the next few years.
(and there's no BS rules to screw you guys this time).

Oh and don't think I'm pissed cause I typed alot. It's a forum and were supposed to discuss stuff like this. I just have a lot of time on my hands

EDIT- HOLY ****...I typed alot.

 

[Ulric_B]

They are white and rules by a russian maffioso?
Socrates came from Corinthians, right?

 

[Vagegast]

They're crap

 

[tinytim]

They're crap

I wouldn't like to turn this into a competition but...got just one thing to say about mexican clubs...'HA!'

 

[tinytim]

1 - How well known Corinthians is around?
They are from Brazil.

2 - How well know Sao Paulo FC is?
They are from Brazil and the son of a bitch Amoroso plays there.

3 - Do you recognize Corinthians World Cup of Clubs Title as official?
What?

do you hate amoroso that much? I can't wonder why...hmm...maybe more than ailton??

 

[tinytim]

They are white and rules by a russian maffioso?
Socrates came from Corinthians, right?

yes, they'r black and white (white shirts, black shorts)

socrates was big in corinthians.

and no, corinthians isn't ruled by a russiam maffioso, as u said. it is ruled by a 'sports management' company, called MSI as Porto is, by GSI. The executive for MSI in corinthians is an irani guy, raised in London, called Kia Joorabchian. Some people say that he has straight links with chelsea's abrahmovich...it may be not so far from the truth, if u consider than even corinthians new sponsor is Samsung Mobile.

 

[tinytim]

This is a great thread since I always wondered what many people around the world thought about the big south american clubs (Boca, River, Corinthians, Sao Pablo, Penarol, Nacional, Olimpia etc) (or vice versa)

1) I know that Corinthians may have the largest fan base on earth. It's just incredible.

2) Sao Pablo? Well they must know it in Japan as Captan Tsubasa Played there . But Sao Pablo is known....but not THAT famous (as their only history came in the last 10-11 years and recently....just now). But they are WAY bigger than Corinthians. HAving alot of fans means nothing if you have no titles to back it up. Corinthians is "famous" for their fans....but compared to Boca, they aren't seen anywhere near that level (in terms of recognition, respect...etc)

3) No no....HELL NO. That tournament is now just known as a "famous" friendly tournament (just cause of the teams that showed up). But that year Boca beat Real MAdrid and cancelled that one out (The hate for Boca grows stronger than ever in Brazil)


Good Thread. Everyone has different opinions on what they think of a club. IE: In Europe they still think of Penarol as in the same level as Boca/River (even more so)....because they WERE the most famous club from south america from 1960- 1989 (just recently they've been slumping). But winnign 5 Libertadores and 3 World Club cups is pretty damn huge (they were even recognized by Canadian TV here as they showed the "ELite 5" of teams who won 3 Intercontinentals (Milan (Italy), MAdrid (Spain), Penarol (Uruguay), Nacional (Uruguay), and BOca (Argentina).
<Hmm...pretty funny that the 5 greatest clubs of all time are pretty much of the same race (URuguay and Argentina are made up of Italian/Spanish settlers).>

It hurts to see that Nacional isnt as famous....but I see all the time that even casual Canadian fans know of Penarol. (that's huge)

Anyways, I kinda went off topic. But I'd like to see what people think of OTHER clubs too (IE: Celtic, Man U, Chivas) all around the world. (in term of respect, etc)
Good topic.

I'll try to take a general pick from what u've posted.

poor corinthians fan...we always have to try kicking multiple asses all the time...hehehe...we're used to it...but that was a global conspiracy...argentinians, europeans, brazilians...all against him...such a coward act...eheh

about the time when sao paulo was 'world' champion and before...I would underrate clubs from asia, africa and others that way. specially now and then. well, I mean the recent 'then', when sao paulo was two times champion of the so-quested world title. u could have players from africa and small countries of the world (small in terms of football) being important in huge clubs. players from argelia, liberia, finland, etc...even japanese players tried out something in brazil and could make it (not tsubasa, though). in our present days, u got every kind of player, from every nation all around. from australia to african, from arabian to japaneses. so, a world club cup should be really world. and the one won by corinthians was the closest one to that, in my view.

and of course I don't take the importance of Libertadores! in the contrary! hey! I just want the importance of our title recognized.

I don't think fifa recognizes boca as the world champion of 2000. maybe the intercontinental champion...but not world. If FIFA created that tourney, which had its trophy delivered by Seph Blatte himself, too...i don't think it would really look like a simple fantasy in the end.

I found something interesting in the sequence of links on FIFA site...check it:

sao paulo's title:

http://www.fifa.com/en/news/feature/0,1451,108503,00.html?articleid=108503

click on the FIFA world Club Championship above:
http://www.fifa.com/en/comp/index/0,2442,CWC2005,00.html?comp=CWC&year=2005

roll down the page and see it (under the section 'In Focus' almost in the bottom of the page):

http://www.fifa.com/en/comp/clubworld.html?static=100&comp=CWC&year=2000

I'll be sending an email to fifa anyway, in [email protected]

 

[Kibe Kru]

Don't think I was being aggressive just because I typed so much (I generally type a lot). My bad if it looked like I was pissed though.

Anyways, National Teams in 1950 are different. You can't think that an African Club could have beaten Liverpool 81-82, Penarol 81-82 or Boca 78. It wasn't even worth playing.

You should take a look at the FIFA World Club part of "Fifa.com". And then you'll see that even that site didn't consider it "the official world championship"

"in 2000, FIFA sponsored the the international tournament of the year as various teams travelled to Brazil." (i'm paraphrasing)

I remember TV from Colombia, Uruguay, Argentina, Mexico arguing about who was the real world champ (soccer shows). And all agreed by a huge margin that it was Boca and not Corinthians (you can't have 2 World Champs). So that tournament (while called the World Club Championship) is pretty much seen now as just another international tournament with some importance.

Sure...you can say that you won that tournament (and it does mean something. I mean you did have Man U in there and everything). So sure you have bragging rights....but it's as if Uruguay bragged about winning "3 World Cups" after winning the 1980 Gold World Cup (just because it had the name "World Cup" in there.....and I'm pretty sure "FIFA" too )

Dude, I know how this must bother you. But when pretty much 100% of the Teams on earth (except Corinthians) consider Boca the world champ that year, there's no point arguing.

But It's easy for me to talk. I mean they did just literally STEAL a World Cup from you guys....I'd be pissed.

I remember last year I went to an English school and there were Colombians, MExicans, Argentinians and 3-4 Brazilians. 1 of those was a rabbid Corinthians fan who argued till death that they were "World Champs" (while the other Brazilians obviously argued against him as any chance to take that title away from Corinthians is welcome).

I remember like 20 kids screaming "NO!!" at the same time while he said that it was true. It was crazy. I swear to god it almost ended in a Fist fight! The Argument got so intense that the Argentinian guys just like started pushing/slapping him. (I didn't do anything though....But I did argue against him of course).

What I mean to say is: Fifa already declared that the Intercontinental winners are World Champs in the history books. But there's been so much confusion and argument (over why Asia/Africa/Oceania can't compete) that they created the new Cup (World Club Cup.....and since no more Toyota.....this one counts). And I think it's called the "Toyota World Club Cup" too.

To sum that it's like Fifa got up and said: "OK! Everyone Shut up! All the last champs for the Toyota Cup are the World Champs. But from NOW ON, THIS cup will be the WOrld Cup.

But anyways, I agree and understand how you feel because I'd be really pissed too. I'd be fighting hard to keep my 1 World Cup (which seems like nothing for me....cause we have 3. But that's irelevant.). But now if Corinthians wants to show the world that they are the best there is and worthy of being in same sentense with Milan/Real Madrid.....they should have no problem winning the World Club Cup in the next few years.
(and there's no BS rules to screw you guys this time).

Oh and don't think I'm pissed cause I typed alot. It's a forum and were supposed to discuss stuff like this. I just have a lot of time on my hands

EDIT- HOLY ****...I typed alot.

Oh well.. I guess that's as close to reaching an agreement over this competition as we'll ever get... so I won't add more stuff you'll just laugh at... ok, just this.. http://www.fifa.com/en/comp/index/0,2442,9666,00.html?comp=CWC&year=2005&articleid=9666
the new competition is called FIFA World Club Championship Toyota Cup Japan 2005, which is a good name for keeping both competitions name and keep Toyota's money running so FIFA won't get broke...
This stuff is settled for me... I'll still consider them World Champs, and the rest of the world will say they're not... and I'm fine with it...

 

[Kibe Kru]

I wouldn't like to turn this into a competition but...got just one thing to say about mexican clubs...'HA!'

uh.. Arash ain't Mexican, nor does he support any mexican club... so calm down mate.. you were asking for it when you posted, just take a chill pill...

and No Corinthians ain't run by a russian mafioso!!!! it's actually a GEORGIAN mafioso!!!! Boris Berezovskiy is his name, and I guess his money comes from arms dealing, or crime related activities...

 

[El Diablo Rojo]

I've heard about that club world cups of 2000 but i have no idea who played or how did they get to play there. Speaking of respect worldwide, Independiente won 7 Libertadores and River won just 2 but River is more known worldwide.

Fine Independiente hasn't won a Libertadores in more than 20 years but even before they weren't given the credit. I also hate when they call San Lorenzo a "big" team when even Estudiantes have more history than them(and a better present).

Now if we talk about national teams i think the history has been a bit unfair with Uruguay compared to England.

 

[INFESTA]

1 - How well known Corinthians is around?

Who?

2 - How well know Sao Paulo FC is?

The name goes after one of the largest cities in the world, so what do you think? It's very well known, I guess. Winning the Toyota Cup helps.
One of my friends here is a super-bambi supporter, born in S. Paulo.

3 - Do you recognize Corinthians World Cup of Clubs Title as official?

Yes. It officially means nothing.

and no, corinthians isn't ruled by a russiam maffioso, as u said. it is ruled by a 'sports management' company, called MSI as Porto is, by GSI.

Wrong. GSI bought 75% of Fabiano's pass, while Porto's SAD only invested in the remainder 25%. That was it.
In the end that turned out to be a good move by our SAD because Fabiano sucks.
Here's proof.