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2009 FIFA Confederations Cup [P+R]

X

Xifio

The Von Trapps



so, the dress rehearsal for next year's World Cup is almost upon us ... not the most prestigious tournament, but it certainly has thrown up some excellent matches and impressive upsets (e.g. Eto'o's sublime winner to beat Brazil in 2003) ...

this will be a historic occasion, because Africa will be hosting its first major (senior-level) FIFA tournament ... it will give everyone an idea of how smoothly things can/will run come the World Cup ...
 
Back Door Skip

Back Door Skip

Pedro
Staff member
Run DMB;2681244 said:
Well, it's a good thing the groups are balanced in terms of quality.
Click to expand...

Haha. (H)




Spain has a cake group. They should be able to get to the semis without breaking a sweat.
 
R

Run DMB

MVP
South Africa aren't the champions of anything, Iraq didn't even make the AFC's final World Cup qualifying round, and New Zealand are the champions of a confederation of pub teams. More power to all these teams, and I hope they can pull some upsets, but let's call it like it is.

Hopefully we'll benefit more from getting smacked silly in Group B than we would have benefited from being in Group Cupcake.
 
X

Xifio

The Von Trapps
let's not argue over the concentration of quality across the various continents ... I mean, I can argue that CONCACAF have too many World Cup qualification spots, while Africa has too few ... we all know that Europe and to a lesser extent (in terms of total number of teams) South America have the traditional powerhouses that have dominated international competitions over the past century ...

but an even playing field (with no seeding or weighting) is a rarity, and this happens to be such an occasion ... I quite enjoy it ... and anyway, I am of the philosophy that playing against the best is a better way to prove your worth to yourself and others than getting an easy way out ... and if you do fall when facing the mighty, then you would have learnt a lot more than you could otherwise have ...

the USA are not a great team ... they have before them a daunting but thoroughly sumptuous opportunity ... think about what it would mean if the Americans make it out of that Group of Death (pardon the cliché) ...
 
R

Run DMB

MVP
Xifio;2681292 said:
let's not argue over the concentration of quality across the various continents ... I mean, I can argue that CONCACAF have too many World Cup qualification spots, while Africa has too few
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I'm not going to argue that CONCACAF is better than CAF, but look at the last four World Cups:

2006: 1 of 5 (20%) African teams made it out of the group stage compared to 1 of 4 (25%) CONCACAF teams

2002: 1 of 5 (20%) African teams made it out of the group stage compared to 2 of 3 (67%) CONCACAF teams

1998: 1 of 5 (20%) African teams made it out of the group stage compared to 1 of 3 (33%) CONCACAF teams

1994: 1 of 3 (33%) African teams made it out of the group stage compared to 2 of 2 (100%) CONCACAF teams

Total: 4 CAF teams and 6 CONCACAF teams got into the second round; 22% and 50% respectively.

Obviously, CAF is much deeper than CONCACAF, so the above results are not an accurate indication of the confederations' strength, but I think the current allocation of WC spots is pretty fair.
 
X

Xifio

The Von Trapps
Run DMB;2681298 said:
I'm not going to argue that CONCACAF is better than CAF, but look at the last four World Cups:

2006: 1 of 5 (20%) African teams made it out of the group stage compared to 1 of 4 (25%) CONCACAF teams

2002: 1 of 5 (20%) African teams made it out of the group stage compared to 2 of 3 (67%) CONCACAF teams

1998: 1 of 5 (20%) African teams made it out of the group stage compared to 1 of 3 (33%) CONCACAF teams

1994: 1 of 3 (33%) African teams made it out of the group stage compared to 2 of 2 (100%) CONCACAF teams

Total: 4 CAF teams and 6 CONCACAF teams got into the second round; 22% and 50% respectively.
Click to expand...
look at it this way:

1994: Nigeria | Mexico, USA
1998: Nigeria | Mexico
2002: Senegal | Mexico, USA
2006: Ghana | Mexico

so that's 3 different teams that have gone through to the second round from CAF, but the exact same 2 going through from CONCACAF ...

but this is a silly game, and I don't see it leading anywhere ...


Run DMB;2681298 said:
Obviously, CAF is much deeper than CONCACAF, so the above results are not an accurate indication of the confederations' strength, but I think the current allocation of WC spots is pretty fair.
Click to expand...
CAF gets 5 spots, while CONCACAF 3 guaranteed, and 1 more in a play-off against CONMEBOL ... I would have to dispute that extra play-off spot, and argue that it should be 2 guaranteed, and 1 play-off ...

I'd also like to add that if we see a play-off between CAF and CONCACAF for that extra spot, then I am confident that Africa would be nailing that extra spot the majority of the time -- meaning that I feel that a 6th African team (who isn't part of the already-qualified 5 from CAF) would win against the 4th place or even the 3rd place CONCACAF qualifier ...

I say so because CAF is notorious for having big-name casualties in World Cup qualifying, usually due to a solitary slip-up in what turns out to be a crucial match ... so it would inevitably a big team like Egypt, or look at last time when Cameroon and/or Nigeria would have been vying for that spot against T&T, or on this rare occasion a woeful-looking Mexico ...



RE: the unquantifiable factors
in discussions such as these, I find that it is impossible to continue because there is no objective way of agreeing on talent and a raw "awe" factor ... African teams are dynamic, chock-a-block full of talent, and they exude fearlessness ... yes, it is all dependent on their form, and African players can be very moody, but on their day, they will match any big name team on the planet, and even try to better them ...

there is a real possibility that one out of Cameroon, Ivory Coast, Nigeria, Ghana, or even Egypt can seriously push for a semifinal berth, or more ... a lesser-known team like Guinea, or even maverick outfits like Gabon or DRC can spring a surprise ... you just don't get that vibe from CONCACAF teams ...

maybe it seems like I'm being biased, but that's what I feel from personal experience, from what I hear said by the footballing fraternity ...
 
R

Run DMB

MVP
Xifio;2681314 said:
I'd also like to add that if we see a play-off between CAF and CONCACAF for that extra spot, then I am confident that Africa would be nailing that extra spot the majority of the time -- meaning that I feel that a 6th African team (who isn't part of the already-qualified 5 from CAF) would win against the 4th place or even the 3rd place CONCACAF qualifier
Click to expand...
I definitely agree about the 4th place team (3rd would be a pretty close game), and that's one of the reasons why I think that CAF is better than CONCACAF overall. But CAF gets two more guaranteed spots than CONCACAF already, and I really don't see what justifies reducing the latter's (or increasing the former's) World Cup spots. 3.5 spots is fair enough - if CONCACAF is as bad as people think, then the 5th-place CONMEBOL team should have no problems against the 4th-place CONCACAF team. So it's really 3 spots, the lowest of any confederation, even though we don't produce the worst results.

But let's agree to disagree and not get bogged down in this discussion.
 
ShiftyPowers

ShiftyPowers

Make America Great Again
I would be fine if CONCACAF lost it's playoff, but I think we should have 3 guaranteed. Otherwise it's just going to be USA and Mexico every time and no one else will get a shot.
 
Arnau

Arnau

NGR LVR
spain will win this crappy cup without lost a match and conceding 2 goals.

xavi mvp. villa top scorer.
 
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