[F1] Mark Webber to Williams

[Aveirenses]

Originally posted by Alex
I dont think Hakkinen coming back (if he does) is that big an issue...In my eyes he was def. one of those World Champions because he was in the best car...He wasnt ever as good a driver as schuey...Not close.

Ralph, Button, Alonso and Webber in my eyes are all better drivers..

So you're saying Schumacher won the championships because he's so talented? I doubt it. The only championship I think he can realistically take credit on, is 1994, everything after down was like 25% Schumacher and 75% Ferrari's team/reliability.

I bet Alex Yoong could QUALIFY for a race in a Ferrari under the ole qualifying rules, now that's saying something!

 

[Hendrik]

And why are Ferrari so far above the other teams? Because of Schumacher.

 

[dannyeli]

Originally posted by -Vince-
And why are Ferrari so far above the other teams? Because of Schumacher.

Well said

 

[IceBlu]

Originally posted by -Vince-
And why are Ferrari so far above the other teams? Because of Schumacher.

absolutely.


also, when Schumacher came over to Ferrari, he was competitive right away. He was right up there with the faster McLarens and Williams when Ferrari weren't anywhere near the season before.


Schumacher won 3 races in 96 when Alesi and Berger had managed just 1 win the season before.

Then the next season Schumacher won 5 races and almost won the championsip but he was disqualified for that rash move on Villenueve.

In 98 he won 6 races against a much much faster Mclaren.

99 certainly looked like his year but he crashed and broke his leg in silverstone.

After that its been all Ferrari and all Schumacher but its not a mere coincidence that he wins in any car. Ferrari have shown steady progress since his arrival and before that they were nothing more than a midtable average team for a decade.

 

[Aveirenses]

Originally posted by -Vince-
And why are Ferrari so far above the other teams? Because of Schumacher.

Schumacher doesn't build the engines, he doesn't build the chassis, he doesn't pay the wages of the pitcrew. He's a small part of something huge.

 

[Áļéאָ]

He's the heart of the team tho, and the reason why this team exists like it is now. And he has proven that he's much better than all the current drivers in F1. And since there is no Senna, and no Prost in F1, I cant see anyone else being able to beat him while Ms is driving a race winning capable car. After his 99 accident he simply became clearly the best

 

[Spurs4Life]

Schumacher is also partly responsible for making the sport as safe as what it is today. He is/was a board member to make the sport safer and brought new ideas forward on how to get the cars as safe as what you see today.

Brawn and Todt have said many times, he gets involved all the time in bringing the car foward, he puts his own input in, he isn't just a driver, he has opinions on aero dynamics, brake bias etc...the man is a genius and in my opinion the best that's ever lived.

 

[emmer]

schuamcher is damn good but i think pointing him the best who's ever lived is lack of history knowledge. he may be the best who you've ever seen, but the best of them all...

it's like saying zidane, romário or van basten was the best football player ever.

anyway i hate the guy but i admit he's a great driver.

 

[Spurs4Life]

Originally posted by emmer
schuamcher is damn good but i think pointing him the best who's ever lived is lack of history knowledge. he may be the best who you've ever seen, but the best of them all...

it's like saying zidane, romário or van basten was the best football player ever.

anyway i hate the guy but i admit he's a great driver.

Bullsh!t. It's down to opinion. He has broke every record there is to break. I think he is worthy enough to be considered the greatest ever. You would say Senna is the best and I can just say lack of knowledge and biased opinion. BTW Zidane does have a strong case for being the greatest ever, and it's all down to opinion, but you would be saying all this, you are Brazilian and want Pele and Senna to remain at the top...times change and new legends are made that surpass previous ones.

 

[IceBlu]

Originally posted by Spurs4Life
Bullsh!t. It's down to opinion. He has broke every record there is to break. I think he is worthy enough to be considered the greatest ever. You would say Senna is the best and I can just say lack of knowledge and biased opinion. BTW Zidane does have a strong case for being the greatest ever, and it's all down to opinion, but you would be saying all this, you are Brazilian and want Pele and Senna to remain at the top...times change and new legends are made that surpass previous ones.

Btw, Schumacher > Senna


And i've been following F1 closely for a long long time now and I know Senna was great and everything but he wasn't even the greatest of his time. Prost was.

 

[Spurs4Life]

Originally posted by IceBlu



Btw, Schumacher > Senna


And i've been following F1 closely for a long long time now and I know Senna was great and everything but he wasn't even the greatest of his time. Prost was.

Exactly. But it tends to be the case that when someone dies prematurely they become a marter and are seen to be superior to everyone else that competes against there legendary status i.e. Elvis, 2Pac, John Lennon, Senna etc...if Senna was still alive today people wouldn't be holding him in a high esteam as what they do today, death usually makes the public see the achievements more closely.

As I said in thie thread already, Schumacher has taken racing to a new level. He don't just turn up and drive the car then go home, he is a member of the safety board to make the sport safer, he brings a range of ideas to the development of the cars. He is one of the most dedicated drivers ever and has been at the top of the game, even while racing inferior cars in some seasons.

 

[IceBlu]

just what i was thinking (about people who die prematurely being elevated to legendary statuses).

People say that Fangio is the greatest ever but I can't agree or disagree since its just impossible to compare two people who raced more than 3 decades apart. And i haven't seen much of Fangio apart from couple of obscure docmumentaries.

But to say that Senna was the greatest ever, you have to be Brazilian or a Schumacher hater - Emmer falls in both those categories.


Records speak for themselves and Schumacher holds every possible record (apart from the most number of Poles during qualifying i think ...which he will get by the time he retires)

 

[Áļéאָ]

having watched Senna, I cant say that MS is better. But I also cant say Senna was better. I think Senna was clearly the best qual driver ever, but he didnt have the same ability to drive as fast in a whole race, make the perfect strategy, protect his car when he needed to. Not saying that he couldnt do that, just saying that I can think of 2 drivers who did that better than anyone. One of them is "the professor"

 

[Dream Team]

I'm not Brazilian and I think Senna and Prost are the best ever. Senna was better than Prost. Now Schumacher is the best but he drives a car wich is better than the others by far. Ferrari is the best car+the best driver+the best team.

Senna drove against Prost, Schumacher drives against his teammate Barrichello and if the things don't go well then Barrichello lets him win.

Today ending a race ahead of a Ferrari is amazing for any team..

 

[Spurs4Life]

NOW Schumacher is dominant, but up until the 2000 season, he was always racing in inferior cars, but STILL getting them to win races or finish on the podium and compete for the title. What you see now is the finished product of 8 years of hard work. You are all going on like Schumacher has never been the hunter but the hunted which isn't the case, for a long time he was the one chasing down cars that were clearly miles ahead.

 

[emmer]

Originally posted by Spurs4Life
You would say Senna is the best and I can just say lack of knowledge and biased opinion.

say, i don't care. by the way, i referred to history knowledge.

Originally posted by Spurs4Life
you are Brazilian and want Pele and Senna to remain at the top...

what a childish idea. i mean, i wouldn't say i'd feel bad if they "remain at the top", but being against other sportsmen just for it... that's just stupid. i'm not like the people you think you know.

Originally posted by Spurs4Life
It's down to opinion.

ok, i may agree on this one. i admit i've generalized it a bit. but, in most of cases, that's what happens. it's just that i don't consider opinions based in low history knowledge that much.

Originally posted by IceBlu
But to say that Senna was the greatest ever, you have to be Brazilian or a Schumacher hater - Emmer falls in both those categories.

man, you gotta be kidding on that:
1) i've never said he was the greatest ever;
2) lots of drivers and motorsport specialists actually find he was the greatest, no matter their nationality or their opinions about schumacher.

Originally posted by IceBlu
Records speak for themselves and Schumacher holds every possible record (apart from the most number of Poles during qualifying i think ...which he will get by the time he retires)

i don't think records are so important. check the records of clark, gilles, stewart or mansell, for an example. changing to football, that's why i don't like when people say pelé was better than maradona using the number of goals scored as an argument.

finally, i think prost was as good as senna. but i like senna's style more.

i don't have a "greatest driver ever" -- but when it comes to that question, the first names i think are fangio, clark, senna, prost and gilles (in no order).

 

[Glorious]

Good move for Webber and at last he will be performing with a decent team.