FC Barcelona Thread [2010/11]

[Mandieta6]

Parking the bus, and it doesn't take a good coach to do that.

It still boils down to one tactic beating another tactic. The fact that it's such a condemned tactic doesn't detract from the tactic itself, but from Pep for not being able to deal with it. That it doesn't take a great coach to do it follows the same logic, a simple tactic that still beat him, even if he got outcoached by a bad manager, he still got beaten, and the tactics were the reason for it. Personal preference about tactics is irrelevant. I'd say that at any time that the tactic itself decided the match, it's a game in which one manager has been outwitted.

My thoughts on Pep are well-documented in these threads and haven't changed so I won't get into it again.

 

[Sevillista]

It still boils down to one tactic beating another tactic. The fact that it's such a condemned tactic doesn't detract from the tactic itself, but from Pep for not being able to deal with it. That it doesn't take a great coach to do it follows the same logic, a simple tactic that still beat him, even if he got outcoached by a bad manager, he still got beaten, and the tactics were the reason for it. Personal preference about tactics is irrelevant. I'd say that at any time that the tactic itself decided the match, it's a game in which one manager has been outwitted.

My thoughts on Pep are well-documented in these threads and haven't changed so I won't get into it again.

Then your idea of being outcoached has a very low standard. Rubin's coach made the same desperation move that most small teams use when facing much better teams, and it gets them the win maybe 1 out of 20 times. 19/20 times it's a loss or a tie depending on the other team's execution in front of goal, because there is almost no effort to go on offense.

 

[Mandieta6]

A low-standard tactic beat Pep, then. Not much way around it.

 

[Sevillista]

A low-standard tactic beat Pep, then. Not much way around it.

Not being able to score against a 10-man front is not a reflection on the coach.

 

[Mandieta6]

Why not? The opposition have employed a tactic that the team can't break through, he's the one in charge of breaking through it by changing things. Negative tactics are still tactics, and even if the other team decides to kick you out of the game or have all the players form a wall around their goal, it's still up to the manager to create a way to deal with it. You're just being biased.

 

[Sevillista]

Why not? The opposition have employed a tactic that the team can't break through, he's the one in charge of breaking through it by changing things. Negative tactics are still tactics, and even if the other team decides to kick you out of the game or have all the players form a wall around their goal, it's still up to the manager to create a way to deal with it. You're just being biased.

It is up to the coach to put the team in a position to win, and it is up to the players to execute. There is nothing more tactically that Barca could have done, they just didn't put it in the back of the net.

You accuse me of bias, but you're the one grasping at straws to discredit Pep.

 

[Xifio]

I think tactically, when teams park the bus, the team with possession must pull back and keep the ball deep ... this is to try and either draw out the opposition, or lull them into a false sense of security and striking clinically when that is achieved ... just keeping the team playing a high line and hoping for a crack in the wall isn't the only tactical option for a team that like possession play, and it would be naïve to think so ...

 

[Jaboldinho]

Came to chip in a bit.

Think of it like this, Mandieta6. What tactic would you choose against someone parking the bus? Would you go defensively? Counter attack? No. The only way is to attack. That's what Barca always does - hold the ball, and try to find a gap. It just doesn't work everytime, if the gap isn't found, or the chances aren't taken. Every now and then the defensive job of the opposition will be good enough to stop the attacking team's flow, and they might get a chance to breakaway on a quick counter. It's not up to the manager if his players can get throught the 10-man defense, or if they finish their chances, nor is it up to the other manager, whether his defensive style is executed perfectly by his players, and whether they make the occasional scoring chance count. You have to think about this as variance - football is a game of skill, but with so many variables, "luck" plays a part, and there is variance in the results. Parking the bus against Barcelona might be the best tactic for most teams, that's a given, but if they happen to beat Barcelona once with that tactic, it doesn't necessarily mean they will beat them everytime with that tactic - sometimes they will, sometimes they won't.

 

[Mandieta6]

There definitely is more for the manager to do, he could ask them to vary their approach in attack, amongst other things. I'm not grabbing at straws at all, I'm maintaing the same point throughout: one tactic beat another, and should be recognised as such. Your belief that this tactic has little merit doesn't change that.

And Jabol, when they DO beat Barca with this tactic, they should be credited for it. And when Pep sees this happening, he should be doing something about it other than blandindly hoping for a system that isn't working at that moment to turn it around. You're looking at tactics as if it's something Pep can only alter in general terms. It's not. Teling a player to move forward more, or drop back more, or cross to here, or there, or switch flanks, move towards the ball, open up space, etc. You can't just disregard a loss because you feel like it.

I see no reason to disregard all of Pep's wins as well, following your logic.

 

[Sevillista]

There definitely is more for the manager to do, he could ask them to vary their approach in attack, amongst other things. I'm not grabbing at straws at all, I'm maintaing the same point throughout: one tactic beat another, and should be recognised as such. Your belief that this tactic has little merit doesn't change that.

And Jabol, when they DO beat Barca with this tactic, they should be credited for it. And when Pep sees this happening, he should be doing something about it other than blandindly hoping for a system that isn't working at that moment to turn it around. You're looking at tactics as if it's something Pep can only alter in general terms. It's not. Teling a player to move forward more, or drop back more, or cross to here, or there, or switch flanks, move towards the ball, open up space, etc. You can't just disregard a loss because you feel like it.

I see no reason to disregard all of Pep's wins as well, following your logic.

By grasping at straws I mean you are bringing up one loss that ultimately was of no consequence, as if that should be damaging to his reputation.

And I disagree, if your current tactics are generating several chances on goal, you stick with them and count on your team to put them in.

 

[Mandieta6]

You think I'm trying to damage his reputation or discredit Pep, and I'm not. I'm just makiing the case for the Rubin match to be counted as a match in which he was outcoached, which you were against. That's it.

 

[Jaboldinho]

There definitely is more for the manager to do, he could ask them to vary their approach in attack, amongst other things. I'm not grabbing at straws at all, I'm maintaing the same point throughout: one tactic beat another, and should be recognised as such. Your belief that this tactic has little merit doesn't change that.

And Jabol, when they DO beat Barca with this tactic, they should be credited for it. And when Pep sees this happening, he should be doing something about it other than blandindly hoping for a system that isn't working at that moment to turn it around. You're looking at tactics as if it's something Pep can only alter in general terms. It's not. Teling a player to move forward more, or drop back more, or cross to here, or there, or switch flanks, move towards the ball, open up space, etc. You can't just disregard a loss because you feel like it.

I see no reason to disregard all of Pep's wins as well, following your logic.

I'm in no way disregarding their win, and they are credited for beating us. I just don't think it's really a case of a manager outplaying the other with his tactics.

 

[Sevillista]

Adriano!

 

[Jaboldinho]

Great goal by him. Love the fellow.

Happy to see the likes of Thiago perform well. Good job, 8-0 in the league, 8-0 in the copa.

 

[Arnau]

Haha Afellay couldn't belive he had score.

 

[Sevillista]

Well, there are going to be at least three more classicos now: The Copa del Rey final, and the two-leg Spanish Supercopa. It's my consolation prize for having Sevilla eliminated. They still have the chance to meet in the Champions League too, but Lyon will probably toss Madrid first

 

[Xifio]

they're meeting in the league once more too ... and I personally really hope they face each other in the UCL quarters ...

 

[Mr.Crosas]

I'v made:

Sweet 16 Barca!

 

[Pogba4Now]

What a f*cking goal by Messi (0-2). There's nothing Ronaldo can do that Messi can't.

This

 

[Sevillista]

This

Touché