FIFA vs PES/WE - The real deal - GAMEPLAY!!!

Discussion in 'PES/WE vs FIFA' started by napolistill#1, Mar 7, 2005.

  1. Shaft085

    Shaft085 BANNED - Multiple Accounts Life Ban

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    This reply, Just about says it all really ...
    Ever wondered what sort of person that makes you ? ...
    Also, have you ever wondered what most people, actualy think of you ? ....
    Basically down to the FACT that you,re not mature enough to accept negative critasism about a £30 video game, which in all fairness judging by your username, seems to have taken over your life.
    Also keeping in mind that this is a PES v FIFA Forum, so anybody is entitled to give their personal opinions on either game. Regardless if you & i, or anyone else agree,s with those statements...
    You,ve got a lot of waking up, and definately a lot of growing up to do... :nape:

    Theres only 1 person that should be banned from this forum, and thats you.
    On any decently moderated message board, your ass would have been history, months ago.
    You and your little GF Ganxxxter, are the main people that cause flamewars & arguments on this forum.
    you,re also the only people that are dishing out most of the insults ..
    There are at least 3 threads that i could re-post, from when i was banned, not counting the ones before.
    Where you have hijacked perfectly good threads by causing flamewars & insulting other members.
    But suprise,suprise no action towards you, ever gets taken. (i wonder why ?)
    I suppose it all depends on the amount of asses you,re prepared to kiss ..
    And how good a job, that you do of it ... :hump:

    I personaly treat people with the same amount of respect, that they show me. That,s in real life, as well as message boards.
    So ask yourself the question. Who cast the first insults, in this thread ?.

    Btw, you don,t actualy think that i,m bothered about getting banned, do you ? .. ;)
     
  2. Shaft085

    Shaft085 BANNED - Multiple Accounts Life Ban

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    Now, theres a suprise ... (:/)
     
  3. Rport03

    Rport03 Youth Team

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    Wel plain and simple, people will always have there opinion what what they like or dislike. You should demand that people not take something seriously if they don't agree with you. As much as I try and ignore it, people always seam to amaze me. Everyone bashes Shaft because he's voicing his opinion but some people (not to name any names because yuo know who you are) just b*tch for the sake of b*tching, and always try and get them banned or suggest that people not listen to him because he doesnt belive in what you do. Reality check, get a life, the world does not revolve around you and please oh please get laid or something because you guys are really taking this way to seriously. You know there is a life outside a PS2, XBOX, GC, PC or whatever you use for entertainment.

    Again dont bash someones for not agreeing with you. If he gets banned and all of you dont, then this forum is really a complete joke because mose of you are being a bunch of b*tches and when someone disagrees with you, you all start acting like internet [email protected] So please if you cannot act mature in your posts just get out because all you do is make the boards very unpleasent. :D
     
  4. johan

    johan Senior Squad

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    Shaft.. the reason you should be (and will be) permanently banned is because you argue with people too much..and even you have to admit it..

    Its been said, the smartest person always gives up, so I gave up long time ago there`s no more replies that I make regarding which game is better.

    It bothers other people when you constantly try to prove your point.. we all know you think FIFA is better than PES/WE and that is fine, but you have to stop with your how should I say this "demanding" that other people should/must agree with your statements.

    If you`re mature enough you shouldn`t off have been banned before. This will get you nowhere but banned.

    PES/WE vs FIFA means you can talk which game is better and why but it doesn`t mean you have to call people dumb, stupid, c0ck-suckers etc.. Yeah I`ve done that and I`m not doing it anymore..but you, you keep talking and talking.. and you never stop..

    All of us will give you the respect once you give US the respect we deserve...

    You tell people they should get a life, and you tell me I don`t have a life..

    1) I compete in amateur bodybuilding
    2) I go out to clubs, parties etc.
    3.) I`ve been to many places around the world (probably more than you)
    4.) I`m also a student..
    5.) I have a beautiful gf soon to be my fiancee...

    how can you tell me that I don`t have a life..

    WINNING ELEVEN is my life in my (gaming world) thats about it..

    You seriously need to chill out, you do understand that nobody really likes you or respects you on these boards..

    You have 257 posts to your name, more than half of them are used to flame people..

    You should really give up on this.
     
  5. Shaft085

    Shaft085 BANNED - Multiple Accounts Life Ban

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    I need to chill ... I need to get a life ?...
    No offence but i,ve done more that what you,re doing now, 10 years ago.
    I,m here to give my opinions not to win a popularity vote.
    Btw, so you,ve asked every single member what they think of me ?.. (grow up, mate)
    You,ve showed me no respect from the start. Also the likes of Rport, Robbieboy & deftones to name a few, have all told you to stop arguing with people, many times..
    Also keeping in mind that you,ve supposidly left this forum, anyway ( your own words), to prevent the arguments.
    3 or 4 pages after an argument which you caused, in a Robbieboy thread.
    What was it you said i quote.. "Nobody cares about your opinion, anyway it,s worthless".
    Just because the guy decided that he still prefered Fifa, after trying PES for a month. I suppose that was his fault, too ...
    So c,mon diggi tell me who,s really got the problem..
    What you,re basically saying is... If you are not a PES/WE Fan, then you have no right becoming a member of this message board, let alone posting on it ..

    Since rejoining this forum..
    I,ve YES replied to peoples post... (that,s the general idea of messageboards)
    YES i,ve not always agreed with peoples opinions... (we all know about opinions)
    But mainly always respected their comments & opinions...
    You reckon i talk too much... Maybe i do, but who says that anyone has to reply? ...
    You are the one that replied to my post " Shut your mouth, talking about your sh!t Fifa game" ....
    Why did you think that i replied with smilies?. To try and prevent another argument with you... But you just won,t let it lie, will you. :nape:
    The only reason i got a warning last time, was due to you reporting me ...
    The eventual banning, was my own doing. Even if i still agree with what i said at the time.

    The problem with this forum is that theres too much childish arrogance from PES fans.
    Who think that they can belittle Fifafans due to a few higher game ratings, or due to the game currently having a slightly better gameplay engine & features...
     
  6. johan

    johan Senior Squad

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    Well in that case, why do you keep replying when someone says FIFA sucks..or whatever..the main thing is you like FIFA and stick by your game.. if you`re smart enough you shouldn`t be even talking about this.

    We can go on..and on..for months years and still never come up with a proper solution.

    I really think you should stop with this PES/WE vs FIFA sh!t...you told us your opinions, we understood you..so its time to move on..
     
  7. Shaft085

    Shaft085 BANNED - Multiple Accounts Life Ban

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    Fair comments, and i actualy agree with you to a point.
    But do yourself a favour diggi, and get off your high horse...
    You,re not exactly that popular in your own PES/WE forum, judging by some of the replies you,ve recieved in there. Especially after that " Most amazing goal " thread of yours. ;)
    Btw, why don,t you stop replying to mine & other Fifafans posts, and enticing arguments ?...

    But i,m prepared to put this BS to bed now ... l8tr.
     
  8. johan

    johan Senior Squad

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    I get fine comments in my PES/WE community..and there will always be people who will be on your neck 24/7 which I don`t mind at all.. people with 7000 posts get disrispected here so I really don`t mind anything anymore..

    This is internet, I have my life, my real friends and everything else..

    So its not a big deal for me..
     
  9. napolistill#1

    napolistill#1 Club Supporter

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    Well I'll get back to a life as soon as the damn jet-lag wears off!!

    As far as posting you really need to get yourself a perspective. I didn't post opinions, I posted facts. In the face of those facts, you simply went over each one and gave me your opinion about them. Again, whether or not you care that those items are a FIFA flaw doesn't make them any less of a flaw.

    I am still waiting with baited breath for a similar gameplay-flaw list about PES/WE that doesn't say the words: atmosphere, running animations, graphics, licenses, kits, commentary, etc. But in the end I'll have to settle from the likes of you and other FIFA fans that "UCL or FIFA totally own WE/PES" just because you rented the titles on alternating weekends w/o a single factual gameplay issue listed for your reasoning.

    As for beng "arrogant" I list below a quote from a post I made in this thread. Again, this thread was created for a serious discussion about gameplay merits (I don't give a crap about the eyecandy). Everything you post on a continuous basis reitirates and strengthens my opinions.

    "my opinion is that most FIFA-fans, when pressed hard enough will yield that they really are in love with the graphics, presentation and licenses. Many of them can't be bothered to worry about the strategic/tactical elements. That's fine, and that doesn't make you less of a soccer fan or less knowledgeable about the sport. People play games for different reasons and the shiny coat of paint on FIFA is as valid a reason to like a game as my reasons are for enjoying PES/WE. Just don't give me this trash that the gameplay is very similar and that the games compliment each other unless you list items, as I did about FIFA, that indicate what specific elements in PES/WE are bad (from a purely soccer sim perspective)!"
     
  10. Shaft085

    Shaft085 BANNED - Multiple Accounts Life Ban

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    With all due respect mate, you are still only giving your own opinion.
    Also, when the hell did i or any other Fifafan have to explain why they prefer 1 video game to another, to you or anybody else ?... Who do you think you are ? ...
    Ever heard of personal preferences?...
    I don,t need to explain on messageboards, why i prefer ..
    GTA - True crime / Getaway
    GT4 - Need for Speed2/ Racedriver3
    MGS - Splinter Cell .. etc,etc...
    If you,ve bought & enjoyed playing a game anually, you will always tend to stick with it. FACT..

    Back to topic ... Well if you had actualy read most of my posts (like you reckon that you have)
    Then you would know that i,ve been playing PES4 for months, via friends who own it on Xbox, and my demo. Which has been on my Pc since last November.
    The reason that i rented it out, was so i could play the full version & ML on my own. To get a proper feel of the game.
    Instead of 5 min demo or 1v1 matches, against my mates, with a few beers.
    Obviously i didn,t get a full ML season etc from those couple of days, due to other commitments.
    But i would say that i,ve spent a considerable amount of time playing it, over the last 5 months, on all formats.
    I,ll also give it credit for the amount of knowledge, depth & work put into the game. I can also see (and appreciate) why alot of people prefer it to Fifa, because the game does become pretty addictive, to be fair.
    Shame it doesn,t have the same level of graphical detail or, as Authentic as Fifa.

    Now i,ll be honest with you and agree that Fifa05,s flaws, do out number it,s improvements.
    Why the hell EA decided to play so zonal in midfield & defence, god only knows. Fifa04 isn,t like that, neither is UCL.
    UCL has the gameplay that Fifa05 should of had...
    All i can honestly say is certain areas of the gameplay must of obviously been rushed, to meet the deadlines. Explaining why some features were inaccurately implied or even, missed out.

    Back to Tactical options ... Well i pretty much answered this, earlier in this thread.
    If you actualy had the knowledge of both games, as well as football, that you claim to have. Then you would have realised that the majority of my listed replies were pretty accurate, for the way in which Fifa/Ucl plays ...
    What was your reply ... " Well i couldn,t really give a crap what you think ...." Theres no trace of arrogance there, is there, mate .. :nape:
    Tbh, if you were to speak to me like that, to my face ... I would knock you
    out.. (Internet hardass) Theres no excuse for ignorance.

    PES & FIFA have 2 diferent styles of play .. Pes relies more on Programmed AI movement.
    Where Fifa does have AI movement, but relies more on the movement & space, that you create yourself... (ie, triggered runs)
    Just because Fifa doesn,t play & have exactly the same tactical options as PES, Doesn,t make it any less of a football game.
    Which is basically what you,re trying to say...
    Although i do think that some of the old tactical options, should be put back into the game... (which should have never been taken out, in the first place)

    Ps, let,s face it .. If Fifa,s gameplay & options were as good, if not better than PES,s ...
    Why would anyboby, want to buy PES/WE ? When you could have it all ... ;)

    So EA have done Konami a favour really, over the last 5 years ... :D
     
  11. Shindig

    Shindig Fan Favourite

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    Well, before the release of FIFA 05, they shown some 'Making of' Videos on the web. These videos shown they were developing in the wrong areas.

    "Let's make shirts dirty, so you can tell who's tired!"

    Meanwhile Konami were saying to themselves...

    "Let's give more depth to our set peice system!"

    EA's concept of the sport is simply as a franchise so they simply update the rosters, kits and then, whatever time they have left, they concentrate on everything else.

    Konami take to their fans who, mostly will suggest improvements to the gameplay and the engine which drives the game forward.
     
  12. Shaft085

    Shaft085 BANNED - Multiple Accounts Life Ban

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    Yeah but you,ve gotta admit, that shirts do get dirty in a football match ... :funny:

    But i do see & agree with your point mate ...
     
  13. napolistill#1

    napolistill#1 Club Supporter

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    Shaft this is really getting tiring. I didn't say I don't give a damn about your opinion. I said that your opinion doesn't take away the flaws of FIFA, and therefore don't mean a rat's ass to me in the context of an objective, fact-based disussion that I was getting at in the original post. I also explicitly state that people like games for different reasons. I love GTA games and hate RPG's. But if someone was arguing that RPG's have deeper stories and are less violent than GTA series and I replied that RPG's are just as violent and have shallower stories, then I'd be a moron!

    Now you and everyone else can love FIFA and I don't really care. I'm really only interested in pursuing a discussion in a forum called "FIFA vs PES/WE" with fact-based arguments about gameplay merits of each franchise. I love PES/WE, I listed 15 factual points about flaws in FIFA games I played extensively that took away from the gameplay experience. Again, whether or not you feel that assigning marking duties is important doesn't somehow diminsh that fact that you can't do this in FIFA. You seem to have gotten past this and great for you. To me, it's a huge problem. Becuase you can "call another defender to help" in FIFA (you can do this in PES/WE as well, BTW) doesn't take away this flaw either. As a soccer lover, I like to be able to choose what type of defense I want to play. Flat-back line, sweeper, man-to-man, zone press all these are imminenetly important to me when I play soccer games in real life as well as on my console. I also was exlpicit in saying that graphics and presentation really don't play a part because only a complete idiot would prefer one soccer game over another purely on these points. And yet, in every one of your posts, you bring this up!

    So lets summarize:
    I issued a challenge with my original post. Here are 15 huge problems with FIFA. Please FIFA fans, I invite you to post similar points about PES flaws. Now 2 months and 9 pages later the validity of all my points has not been argued. You came along and said these are correct, but they aren't really important. You downplay the hugely superior (and realisitc) tactical options by saying that FIFA is pick-up-and-play. You offer not one single, fact-based gameplay flaw in PES/WE and you repeat the graphics/presentation/atmosphere mantra in each and every one of your posts.

    Please, please explain to me how PES/WE fans are wrong when we say that FIFA fans are nothing more than graphics-whores who can't be bothered with a real soccer sim!
     
  14. Shaft085

    Shaft085 BANNED - Multiple Accounts Life Ban

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    Well done .. you,ve just managed prove everything that i said about you in my previous post, correct... :read: That shows how inteligent you are ... :S

    You preach too much, mate. You,re definately a ClassA gaming nerd.
    Just listen to yourself ....
    "I,m only interested in fact based arguments" ... I prefer Fifa to PES, theres a Fact.

    "I listed 15 factual flaws about fifa" ... Well i could list about 30, just off the top of my head.

    "Only a complete idiot would prefer one soccer game to another purely on graphics" ... Well theres a fair few idiots about, and i,m obviously one of them.
    Sorry, but yes i would rather play a good soccer game with very good graphics... Over a slightly better soccer game, with poor graphics .. imo.
    Btw Ucl,s a bloody good game...Unless you,ve played it, what can you say.

    "Please Fifafans i invite you post similar points about pes flaws"....
    Well i,m sure Simakperrce owned your ass, in the "I don,t get it" thread, and he,s a pes fan.
    You,ve even attempted to preach your way out of that. :read:

    Either way, what,s the point of coming out all arrogant and challenging the Fifa playing world, to find flaws in PES?.
    Who do you think you are ?, some sort of PES demi-god or something...
    Theres obviously flaws in it, because it,s only a game, like Fifa.
    Go and post it in the PES/WE Forum,or Pesinsight. they would surely give you some feedback.
    But "who really cares?". people either like the game, or they don,t. just deal with it.
    I,m only a casual gamer, anyway....
     
  15. ganxxxter

    ganxxxter Youth Team

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    shaft085 is the biggest idiot of the century :read:
    it's obvious that PES/WE has got the better gameplay, it IS much better than fifa, which is reflected by the ratings in 90% of all the serious pc/video-game-magazines, which have rated PES much higher than fifa, and all the people that really know what's the real deal and what's football and not an american with an england-flag in his avatar, who just knows how to play rugby but not football, see shaft, fifa's the best footy game for mobile phones, that's true, but NOT for pc and consoles, there it sucks compared to PES/WE!
     
  16. napolistill#1

    napolistill#1 Club Supporter

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    Shaft, in an effort to keep this mood light and not descend into name-calling I'd like to point out a few things.

    1) This is a forum called "PES/WE vs FIFA". Now I understand that Im no Rhodes Scholar like you. But with my limited kowledge of the English language, I have inferred from that forum title that this is where people like me (and you) come to post their opinions, issue challenges, critique the other game, etc. So please, get off your high-horse about citicizing me due to my comments about FIFA.

    2) Issuing a challenge based on factual arguments is far more enlightening and engaging than simply attacking. Let's put the cards on the table shall we? How about I look at all your posts over the months. I'll bet any amount of money that the vast majority of your posts attack other gamers, are vastly inconsistent and bring little to the table in terms of an interesting debate.

    3) This threard was started by me. You could have sailed clear of it as easily as you saw fit to bring it into the muck you ususally bring threads into. Up to the point where you got involved other FIFA fans like Yourri were engaging and bringing up interesting points. Then you came along and this thread got, umm, shafted!!

    4) You say you can list 30 gameplay items about PES/We. Please enlighten me. Quite frankly, I think you're completely full of ****e and couldn't list 5! I also think you're a complete liar when you constantly repeat that you're a casual gamer. For a casual gamer, you sure spend a lot of time and effort on a gaming board.

    5) If trying to disucss gameplay merits of the two titles and offering a list of flaws in one of those titles is arrogant, then ok, you got me! I've also repeated over and over again that people can choose and will choose whatever game they want to play. My stimulus for playing are completely different from others and isn't right or wrong. That doesn't mean though that your game has better gameplay, which is what the original discussion entailed.
     
  17. Shaft085

    Shaft085 BANNED - Multiple Accounts Life Ban

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    Finally, an non-egotistic reply from Napoli ... :clapwap:
    Well done... It wasn,t too hard now, was it. :)
     
  18. shrekiejai

    shrekiejai Reserve Team

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    What was the trash from Diggi?!!
    Are you two 14 y.o. by any chance???
    All insults and no substance...
    This thread actually started well, and then became :nape:

    TBH, I don't know what exactly is wrong with Shaft's comments?
    OK, there are flaws in FIFA, well done, who doesn't know that?
    Shaft himself acknowledges that there are flaws, what more do you want?
    Just because its not a matter of life and death to him doesn't make him a moron.
    Graphics and gameplay are both VITAL aspects of a game, which one is more important is just a matter of preference.

    How many people buy a particular TV simply because it looks better?
    How many people buy a particular car simply because it looks better?
    How many people buy a particular shoe simply because it looks better?

    Buying & liking things based on looks is NOT exactly a rare thing, you can almost say it is the COMMON thing to do.

    So let me guess, the rest of the world are morons too?

    Anyways, back on this topic...

    Yes, I agree with all of the points in the first post.
    I also think Fifa05 and UL is lacking in gameplay..

    But PES4 isn't exactly lacking in faults either..

    1. Headers on goal are almost random!
    2. Goalies are awful with defections.
    3. When there is a loose ball after a tackle/collision, more often than not it rolls to an AI player
    4. If you lob the keeper from just outside the box, it is most likely to be in.
    5. Offsides, half the time, when you watch the replay, the player isn't actually offside, only his centre of mass is offside (relative to the defender's centre of mass)..

    And before you flame me for being a Fifa Fan boy, I actually play PES4 on PC (with Wolf's patch)...

    Apart from the gameplay, the one thing I HATE most about FIFA is their tendency to take away positive aspects of the game from new versions (eg. Radar)..
     
  19. napolistill#1

    napolistill#1 Club Supporter

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    ^^^^^

    Shrek, noone here (I hope I speak for everyone) holds these games in life or death status. These boards, and games in general, are a fun release and ribbing each other is all good clean fun. I'm sure if I met Shaft in a pub, I'd have a few pints with him, bust him about Italian vs English soccer and then kick his a$$ on any vid game he chose (I have lots of confidence). I have repeatedly said that people choose games for personal reason and noone's reason is more pertinent than mine or yours or Shaft's.

    Now getting back to the original post. Thanks for the points and that's what I was hoping to get at when I started this thread - an honest, factual discussion about gameplay merits (and flaws) of the two titles. I agree with all your faults on PES/WE. The problem I have though is that there is a perception by myself and others I have read and communicated with that the issues around PES/WE are honest game limitations that have Konami up against a wall. When I play WE titles, I get the underlying feeling that a development team set out to make the best soccer sim they could possibly make and truly had the soccer fan in mind when doing so. All the issues around PES/WE seem to be honest errors (the GK AI this year, the offsides you metion, etc) or limitation of the system (CPU cheating that is essential to keep the game challenging).

    When I play FIFA I get the feeling that soccer fans were an afterthought. I get the feeling that EA team went for eyecandy first and foremost and soccer gameplay second. In this case, I feel it is imperative for us as consumers to understand what EA is doing and not fall prey to this and force them to take soccer fans more seriously.

    The problems in EA's gameplay flaws (at least until now) are of a soccer nature and show either a limited lack of knowledge of the sport or a lack of respect for the fans of that sport. How is it in 2005 that you don't give the gamer the ability to create a custom formation? If you're like Shaft and want pick up and play, fine choose a default formation and knock yourself out! It isn't any of my business to say that this is right or wrong. But if you're like me and like to tweak things and experiment based on the available talent, then it has to be there. When I set up my game, I like to pretend that I'm a virtual Mourinho or Ancelotti or Ferguson or Wenger. FIFA just doesn't give you this. How is it that I can't assign cetain duties for space coverage, runs or markin/zone coverage to individual players? These are basics of modern pro soccer and should absolutely be reflected in a modern vid game. It's almost as if EA is admiting that their game engine doesn't allow for individual movement and deviations from a set programming within the default formations. What's more disgusting on EA's part is the fact that many of these things were avaialable in '98 on the PS1!!! Yet, in FIFA scoring from 30 yard balsts is commonplace - another part of the "eyecandy" that EA uses.
     
  20. shrekiejai

    shrekiejai Reserve Team

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    We all know PES4 has a better gamplay...
    But EA programmers are clearly not targetting gameplay as its main selling point.. (regardless of the Marketing department claims: "most realistic soccer game" - they rarely say the true, and they cant exactly say "the 2nd most realistic socer game" in their ads)..
    so there is really nothing much to compare..

    YES, PES4 has better gameplay..
    YES, Fifa has better graphics and license..

    Which game is better depends on who you are asking and what is more important to them.
     
      

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