Ivory Coast: COLOSSAL disappointment

[tinytim]

I please ask for the forgiving of Ivory Coast people or fans in advance...or every other african football fan. But I don't know if it's just me...did you notice that EVERYTIME an african team gets some spot they become the most arrogant asses in the planet?

Ivory Coast's atitude yesterday wasn't basicly too diferent of Nigeria '98. Oh man, those guys were really faces to punch. After the incredible win over Spain they felt like they were the biggest thing on earth. And the fact that Pele claimed that the next Pele would come from Africa didn't help much in their construction of a more modest, centered (and necessary since their game needed more calm and ponderation on the pitch) personality, in the contrary.

Eto'o, Okocha...I could come with a long list of truly snob african players here. And I could focus on Droga, because...well, he really thinks he's the thing. But the ENTIRE Ivory Coast team is just so mean and nasty. And their attitude at the end of the game, trying to take brazilian key players with them as they had to risk to be sent off...that's typical for argentine players, when they're losing to Brazil. But it's ok for them, it's their modus operandi, they're Brazil's rivals. However, these guys really thought they could face Brazil, they could match up with Brazil! They thought they were playing a classic!

I always eager to watch an african team play in a WC but I never desired so badly that an african team get its ass kicked like I. Coast in this Cup. I'd love to see their supreme humiliation by getting beaten by Korea, but unfortunately it's just a wishful thinking.

 

[Daniel David]

'Careful, you are beginning to sound like Dunga in terms of vindictiveness.

 

[tinytim]

despite that this hasn't really to do with the main point, was he wrong at all?

 

[Daniel David]

despite that this hasn't really to do with the main point, was he wrong at all?

As you mentioned it... of course he was. No amount of media stupidity can justify such lack of class. Either he is a complete fool or (more likely) deeply paranoid.

(For the non-Brazilians: during the post-game press conference a journalist silently nodded his head in disapproval of an answer by Dunga. Our dear manager interrupted his reply, asked "any problem?" to the journalist and then, in a low but audible tone, swore at the guy.)

Back to Ivory Coast, they have every right to try to face Brazil as equals. That has nothing to do with arrogance, violence, or Keita's behaviour. And for that matter even the Argentines have been behaving quite sportsmanly when our NTs have met over the last few years.

 

[Sevillista]

They didn't exactly have an easy two matches... it's Portugal and Brasil. Why didn't you open a thread up for the French or the English?

 

[night]

Ivory Coast's atitude yesterday wasn't basicly too diferent of Nigeria '98. Oh man, those guys were really faces to punch. After the incredible win over Spain they felt like they were the biggest thing on earth. And the fact that Pele claimed that the next Pele would come from Africa didn't help much in their construction of a more modest, centered (and necessary since their game needed more calm and ponderation on the pitch) personality, in the contrary.

I don't see anything wrong with them having an optimistic attitude and belief that they are a great team. Although arrogance is an undesirable quality, I think that a bit of arrogance and belief that you are the sh*t (even if you're not) are both great motivators..

 

[Xifio]

@tinytim:

firstly:

there are cheating morons everywhere, and it is not based on their nationality ... Abdel-Kader Keïta conning the ref was an individual decision ... and when such incidents happen, it isn't always immediately apparent to the other players what happened, so tempers instantly flare, and players naturally side with their teammates ...


-----

before I discuss the African arrogance, I see you have made no mention of Fabiano's double handball for his second goal, which was what really took the wind out of the Ivorian sails ...

anyway, onto the topic: yeah, Drogs thinks he's the sh!t, but he's one of the best strikers in the world, and being arrogant about it is an individual judgment call ... same goes for Eto'o, the only man I know in the history of football to win back-to-back European trebles, though no one can question his work rate for the team ... but I think it is unfair to generalize about all the Ivorians or all Africans being arrogant ... I guarantee you that Yaya Touré wasn't letting his ego blind his actions ...

the problem with Côte d'Ivoire ("Ivory Coast" is no longer politically accepted) and Cameroon is with their coaches ...

with Cameroon, Le Guen chose an idiotic system (3 DMs, 3 centre-forwards up front but with Eto'o playing wide right, no link man) in the first match against Japan (!), which resulted in an unbelievably terrible performance, and a deserving loss; in the second match, he changed tactic and brought in Emana, but still insisted on playing the woefully useless Achille Webó as the centre-forward, before again moving Eto'o to the right wing when they were chasing a late goal ... it was moronic from Le Guen ...

with CIV, Eriksson has only been in the job since April ... April! ... he's had virtually no preparation time with his players -- especially when they are drawn in the Group of Death ... that is apart from the fact that Eriksson is a terrible motivator; he is far too soft-spoken to manage an African side full of strong personalities ... and again, one has to question his selection and tactic ... in the second match, why was Dindane starting ahead of Gervinho? what was the compensation plan for not having a #10 to link midfield to attack? defensively they lacked organization ... was there an effective plan to counter the particular and varying threats in a lineup that was known to everyone a year ago? and when the shoulders were drooping, where was the coach to shout some spirit back into the team? nowhere, coz that's not how Eriksson does it ... it was a bad appointment, and that was the end result ...

so I think you're right to feel disappointed with two of the big African sides ... they were supposed to do the continent proud in the first African World Cup, but instead became the first two sides eliminated from the competition ... their poor showing, though, is certainly not for the reasons you have detailed ...

 

[Pogba4Now]

Funny that you complain of Keita's acting when your own player Rivaldo did the exact same thing LOL. To me, Ivory Coast were very unlucky to get into the group of death with Portugal and Brazil. They did very well against Portugal and could've won. They still stand a chance if they score many against N. korea.

 

[Lean]

The problem with African teams is their european coaches trying to make them play like they were some kind of Switzerland, applying the same physical play and tactics (to some extent). Back in 1994 and 1998, Nigeria was such a great team to watch in action.
Now any team from Africa plays boring boring football. We've got no Senegals in this World Cup, no Dioufs (even tho he flopped at club level), nothing surprising.
Because africans are beginning to forget what they do best - flair-esque football, in order to develop the tactical obedience and team play that european coaches love to instill in their players. Just watch any of them, they receive the ball, and pass it away, quickly, one, two touch high tempo football, playing it to the wings and crossing it right after. That's not african football, that's what poor european teams do - and there's a lot of them in this WC, more than I would like to watch.
And the conclusion is - now african teams have no flair and still show the same lack of awareness in positioning, being far less entertaining to watch and pretty much toothless. This will stir people up, i'm sure lol.

 

[Help?]

I wouldn't be so much pissed about Keita's acting, as I would be about all the stud up challenges on Lucio, Elano and Juan, i think. Any one of those could have easily been a red on a different day and was a clear sign that Ivory Coast were frustrated by being outplayed and decided to injure Brazillian players. These guys don't live in some shack near the Sahara desert, most of them play for big clubs in europe and know perfectly well that those challenges break people's ankles.

 

[tinytim]

I don't think I made my point really clear here:

1. I deeply and strongly disapprove Rivaldo's atitude in an even bigger way than Keita's, because Keita is ordinary and limited, while Rivaldo has always been (to this date) fantastic. He didn't need that. And the red card to the turkish player back then didn't help Brazil at all.

2. I guess the 'arrogance' issue here wasn't well clarified by me. Let me explain: When Brazil and Argentina play and Argentina lose, most basicly they start to harm brazilian players in order to piss them off and take the brazilians with them as they're sent off. That's typical and although it's quite unfair play, we 'accept' that because it's the modus operandi of most of 'harsh football' schools such as Argentina and Uruguay. You can expect that, the context accepts that because yes, THEY are Brazil arch rivals and that's what they do.

But Cote D'Ivoire or Ivory Coast, whatever; started to play this same little dirty game. They took over the role of an Argentina squad losing 3-0 to Brazil and trying to piss brazilians players off as a 'strategy'. After Kaká was sent off, Drogba went to the Ivory fans and started to rave his hand asking for their support as the corner was about to be kicked. That's a shame. And it's a clear expression of what these guys think they really are. They feel they're THE sensation. It truly reminds me of the dumb Nigeria team from '98. They started playing against Denmark fulll of flicks, tricks and football gimmickery. And went back home with four balls on their nets and their backs. That's one kind of arrogance. Ivory Coast's another one, even bigger and worse. It's my view.

3. About Fabiano: yea, so what? I'll say again: so what? What's the minimal resemblance of a double handball and a guy kicking your knees or your legs in such way that it could easily break them and end your World Cup participation? He's not the one to blame, it's the stupid (and suspiciously bad intended) referee. It was his DUTY to watch and whistle. The player's duty is to play. And kick. And score. What's Fabiano's crime? Should he yell: "Oh please, stooop! Stop everything! (I wouldn't be surprised if he yelled that way since his career developed in São Paulo FC, the Bambi Team) I touched the ball! Sorry, people! I didn't mean to cheat you! I want to be a good boy and score good goals!" Yea, the only idiot who did that was Robbie Fowler and a week later the dumbass was "sniffing" the field lines trying to pull a very inadequate joke. Conclusion: you gotta be a real moron to even think about it.

I'll go beyond here and probably stupidly when I state this: I truly found the shameless absence of refereeing in the three agressions (the I. Coast's number 9 on Elano, Yaya on Kaká, and Keita on Kaká again) very, very suspicious. I wouldn't be surprised if things were driven in the match against Portugal in such way that Brazil looses and ends up 2nd in the group, increasing the risk of facing Spain - what a coincidence, the country where the referee was born and Portugal's nemesis.

And I truly think that it's no interest for any european country to see Brazil or any of the South American teams - which are going pretty well so far - but specially Brazil win this Cup. Reason being the next World Cup it's also out of Europe, where Europeans never win. And it's going to be in Brazil. Every big football nation that hosts the World Cup has frequently reached the final match across WC's history. And most of European teams are quite slow in terms of renewing their national teams. And if Brazil won this Cup and the next, at home, that would open a 3 titles difference to Germany and Italy, taking 12 years for one of those nations to equalize, if they were capable of winning 3 cups in a row (which never happened to any country) and if Brazil don't win one more.

Brazilians, I'd watch the next matches with a huge sack of salt, not just a grain.

 

[ArgVega]

I don't think I made my point really clear here:

1. I deeply and strongly disapprove Rivaldo's atitude in an even bigger way than Keita's, because Keita is ordinary and limited, while Rivaldo has always been (to this date) fantastic. He didn't need that. And the red card to the turkish player back then didn't help Brazil at all.

2. I guess the 'arrogance' issue here wasn't well clarified by me. Let me explain: When Brazil and Argentina play and Argentina lose, most basicly they start to harm brazilian players in order to piss them off and take the brazilians with them as they're sent off. That's typical and although it's quite unfair play, we 'accept' that because it's the modus operandi of most of 'harsh football' schools such as Argentina and Uruguay. You can expect that, the context accepts that because yes, THEY are Brazil arch rivals and that's what they do.

But Cote D'Ivoire or Ivory Coast, whatever; started to play this same little dirty game. They took over the role of an Argentina squad losing 3-0 to Brazil and trying to piss brazilians players off as a 'strategy'. After Kaká was sent off, Drogba went to the Ivory fans and started to rave his hand asking for their support as the corner was about to be kicked. That's a shame. And it's a clear expression of what these guys think they really are. They feel they're THE sensation. It truly reminds me of the dumb Nigeria team from '98. They started playing against Denmark fulll of flicks, tricks and football gimmickery. And went back home with four balls on their nets and their backs. That's one kind of arrogance. Ivory Coast's another one, even bigger and worse. It's my view.

3. About Fabiano: yea, so what? I'll say again: so what? What's the minimal resemblance of a double handball and a guy kicking your knees or your legs in such way that it could easily break them and end your World Cup participation? He's not the one to blame, it's the stupid (and suspiciously bad intended) referee. It was his DUTY to watch and whistle. The player's duty is to play. And kick. And score. What's Fabiano's crime? Should he yell: "Oh please, stooop! Stop everything! (I wouldn't be surprised if he yelled that way since his career developed in São Paulo FC, the Bambi Team) I touched the ball! Sorry, people! I didn't mean to cheat you! I want to be a good boy and score good goals!" Yea, the only idiot who did that was Robbie Fowler and a week later the dumbass was "sniffing" the field lines trying to pull a very inadequate joke. Conclusion: you gotta be a moron to even think about it.

I'll go beyond here and probably stupidly when I state this: I truly found the shameless absence of refereeing in the three agressions (the I. Coast's number 9 on Elano, Yaya on Kaká, and Keita on Kaká again) very, very suspicious. I wouldn't be surprised if things were driven in the match against Portugal in such way that Brazil looses and ends up 2nd in the group, increasing the risk of facing Spain - what a coincidence, the country were the referee was born and Portugal's nemesis.

And I truly think that it's no interest for any european country to see Brazil or any of the South American teams - which are going pretty well so far - but specially Brazil win this Cup. Reason being the next World Cup it's also out of Europe, where Europeans never win. And it's going to be in Brazil. Every big football nation that hosts the World Cup has frequently reached the final match across WC's history. And most of European teams are quite slow in terms of renewing their national teams. And if Brazil won this Cup and the next, at home, that would open a 3 titles difference to Germany and Italy, taking 12 years for one of those nations to equalize, if they were capable of winning 3 cups in a row (which never happened to any country) and if Brazil don't win one more.

Brazilians, I'd watch the next matches with a huge sack of salt, not just a grain.

What a hipocrite, that is one of the most arrogant statements I've ever heard. Your acting like Brazil is gonna be in the final of this one, and for sure win the on in Brazil.

Have you forgotten "El Maracanazo", I hope your arrogant attitude gets slapped in the mouth. The Ivory Coast players were a little dirty, which even the angels of Brazil have been in the past too.

And for the Record, it would also not be in Brazil's interest to play Spain either. I think player for player, they are the most talented team in the Cup. Don't whine to the ref because Kaka was stupid to throw an elbow, you should have been coasting, instead of trying to put 3 more goals in, and the african players took offense to that.

We'll see how you do against Portugal, then possibly Spain. They both have talent the equals your "mighty" Brazil

 

[Kibe Kru]

tinytim, I liked you much better when you only made threads about Corinthians' World Club Championship. Can't you just go back to that?

 

[tinytim]

What a hipocrite, that is one of the most arrogant statements I've ever heard. Your acting like Brazil is gonna be in the final of this one, and for sure win the on in Brazil.

Have you forgotten "El Maracanazo", I hope your arrogant attitude gets slapped in the mouth. The Ivory Coast players were a little dirty, which even the angels of Brazil have been in the past too.

And for the Record, it would also not be in Brazil's interest to play Spain either. I think player for player, they are the most talented team in the Cup. Don't whine to the ref because Kaka was stupid to throw an elbow, you should have been coasting, instead of trying to put 3 more goals in, and the african players took offense to that.

We'll see how you do against Portugal, then possibly Spain. They both have talent the equals your "mighty" Brazil

I think you have problems with semantics.

I meant THERE IS A BIG CHANCE of Brazil opening three titles from the biggest european champions in WC. Did I lie? Did I lie when I said that no European has any interest in that scenario?

El Maracanazzon happened because it had to be. Plain and simple. Brazil learned a lot from that episoded and it was exactly why it has become the greatest champion of all.

The Ivory Coast players were a little dirty, which even the angels of Brazil have been in the past too.

Big deal. I'm talking about THAT particular game yesterday. I wasn't in this forum when those games happened and probably there wasn't even Internet when it happened. If i had the chance I would point my finger to that atitude too. And did you notice that I'm brazilian? Am I supposed to be righteous in other people's places? Come on.

And for the Record, it would also not be in Brazil's interest to play Spain either.

Once again, you have problems with semantics. That was the whole point my dear. Spain is a better team than Brazil and throwing Brazil to the lions right at the beginning of the finals is everyone's daydream. The sooner they get rid of Brazil - specially after last years Conf. Cup's show - the better.

Don't whine to the ref because Kaka was stupid to throw an elbow

It doesn't take a genius to know you're a Barcelona fan.
Throw an elbow? Are you trying to stand for your country brother, pal? I'm talking about the ref, of course.
Let's reproduce the scene here with words. Keita comes across Kaka INTENTIONALLY. He shocks against him and Kaka who saw him - peripheral vision, right? - protects himself against the shock like any other player would do when a marker comes towards him, with the raw intention of pushing or agressing. He doesn't push the elbow against him, he's just there, still.

Now, the following: the IC's player falls to the ground, with the hands to the face. Godammit, if his face was hurt that's a STRAIGHT red. It's an agression, minimum of 3 games out, just like Leonardo in '94 or Zizou '98. Instead, the referee takes the yellow card. It's the 2nd, bye bye Kaká. What's that??? I mean, what did the referee see? If it was an agression, why not a straight red? If it didn't earn a straight red, then what the foul was?? Bad placement of the arm? The one winged chicken imitation?

We'll see how you do against Portugal, then possibly Spain. They both have talent the equals your "mighty" Brazil

No, they don't.

 

[tinytim]

tinytim, I liked you much better when you only made threads about Corinthians' World Club Championship. Can't you just go back to that?

Let me think.




No.

 

[Daniel David]

And I truly think that it's no interest for any european country to see Brazil or any of the South American teams - which are going pretty well so far - but specially Brazil win this Cup.

Certainly it is of no interest for any European country to see Brazil winning the cup, because they want to win it themselves. Other than that, I am not a fan of conspiracy theories...

And if Brazil won this Cup and the next, at home, that would open a 3 titles difference to Germany and Italy, taking 12 years for one of those nations to equalize, if they were capable of winning 3 cups in a row (which never happened to any country) and if Brazil don't win one more.

Brazil could have opened a 3-title gap in 2006, and yet I didn't see any evidence of anti-Brazilian rigging in Germany. On the contrary, we actually had an easier than average group and round of 16 match (and then deservedly lost to France).

Spain is a better team than Brazil and throwing Brazil to the lions right at the beginning of the finals is everyone's daydream.

if the Europe vs. South America thing was really an issue I guess the corrupt FIFA officials would rather steer the best European team away from one of its strongest opponents at this early stage. There would plenty of other opportunities to rig matches and deny Brazil chances to win the title.

The sooner they get rid of Brazil - specially after last years Conf. Cup's show - the better.

It was a nice performance, but show?

 

[Back Door Skip]

I think you have problems with semantics.

I meant THERE IS A BIG CHANCE of Brazil opening three titles from the biggest european champions in WC. Did I lie? Did I lie when I said that no European has any interest in that scenario?

El Maracanazzon happened because it had to be. Plain and simple. Brazil learned a lot from that episoded and it was exactly why it has become the greatest champion of all.

The Ivory Coast players were a little dirty, which even the angels of Brazil have been in the past too.

Big deal. I'm talking about THAT particular game yesterday. I wasn't in this forum when those games happened and probably there wasn't even Internet when it happened. If i had the chance I would point my finger to that atitude too. And did you notice that I'm brazilian? Am I supposed to be righteous in other people's places? Come on.

And for the Record, it would also not be in Brazil's interest to play Spain either.

Once again, you have problems with semantics. That was the whole point my dear. Spain is a better team than Brazil and throwing Brazil to the lions right at the beginning of the finals is everyone's daydream. The sooner they get rid of Brazil - specially after last years Conf. Cup's show - the better.

Don't whine to the ref because Kaka was stupid to throw an elbow

It doesn't take a genius to know you're a Barcelona fan.
Throw an elbow? Are you trying to stand for your country brother, pal? I'm talking about the ref, of course.
Let's reproduce the scene here with words. Keita comes across Kaka INTENTIONALLY. He shocks against him and Kaka who saw him - peripheral vision, right? - protects himself against the shock like any other player would do when a marker comes towards him, with the raw intention of pushing or agressing. He doesn't push the elbow against him, he's just there, still.

Now, the following: the IC's player falls to the ground, with the hands to the face. Godammit, if his face was hurt that's a STRAIGHT red. It's an agression, minimum of 3 games out, just like Leonardo in '94 or Zizou '98. Instead, the referee takes the yellow card. It's the 2nd, bye bye Kaká. What's that??? I mean, what did the referee see? If it was an agression, why not a straight red? If it didn't earn a straight red, then what the foul was?? Bad placement of the arm? The one winged chicken imitation?

We'll see how you do against Portugal, then possibly Spain. They both have talent the equals your "mighty" Brazil

No, they don't.

You're retarded.


"Fans" like you are the reason why it's so easy to root against Brazil.


It would be hilarious if Brazil draws Spain in the round of 16 and Brazil flops even though it's most likely the opposite of how you put it in the victim mentality.


By the way, it was a FRENCH ref. Get your facts straight at least.


Enjoy your conspiracy theories, though.

 

[yoyo913]

I will bump this thread when Brazil get eliminated this WC and the next one.

 

[Kibe Kru]

Let me think.




No.

Uh.. Please?

Now, really, I don't understand the attitude. Why???

 

[silvone]

Kaka didn't deserved to be red carded! the reff was so ******* blind and stupid! well...., what should i do now that i gave a penalty against CDI ? let me ask Fabiano if he touched the ball with his hands! if he did it, he will admit that he did it and he will start to cry like a little baby....Ohhh...yes i did it, i'm so sorry now, please have mercy.....
I must say that i've saw thousands of games but i have never seen a refferee to ask a player if it was handball or not.What a shame.....