Sorry, my choice of words was not the best. I meant that a can of worms has been opened because of a failure to plan properly for the aftermath. Again, this goes back to the pentagons reliance on dodgy sources, like anyone associated with Chalabi. Some people nvolved in the planning were so convinced that the coalition forces would be greeted with open arms, recall how many times we were told in the buildup that the army would be in and out i a matter of months. ANd again this is locked up with the 'rush' to go to war. Sure, you can say things have changed after 9/11 etc. in justifying the war, but this is no excuse for poor planning when hundreds of thousands of troops and billions of taxpayer dollars are at stake.
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Most War Protesters...
- Thread starter juventusita
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Sorry, my choice of words was not the best. I meant that a can of worms has been opened because of a failure to plan properly for the aftermath. Again, this goes back to the pentagons reliance on dodgy sources, like anyone associated with Chalabi. Some people nvolved in the planning were so convinced that the coalition forces would be greeted with open arms, recall how many times we were told in the buildup that the army would be in and out i a matter of months. ANd again this is locked up with the 'rush' to go to war. Sure, you can say things have changed after 9/11 etc. in justifying the war, but this is no excuse for poor planning when hundreds of thousands of troops and billions of taxpayer dollars are at stake.
Elder, your arguments are still full of flaws which are unexcusable to a smart lad like yourself.
Is it easy to ship a nuclear ogive out of a country like Iraq? Probably is, yes.
Is it easy to ship a good hundred of WMD out of a country like Iraq without the US noticing it? Don't think so, but could happen.
But, and here is where your tricky leaders don't want you to look at, is it easy to hide/destroy the means which led to the construction of such WMD without the US (who were already intensively seeking for any evidence in Iraq, as Powell demonstrated in the UN) knowing it? No way. Absolutely no way. And you don't even have to be a skilled engineer to know that.
This argument is the sort of dirt your government throws to your people's eyes. Unfortunately it seems to blind most of you.
Many people screwed up, but I only saw two countries invading Iraq. And you can't even use the 'violating the 1441 res' argument because your country waged a war outside the UN sphere. If that argument has any sort of validity, then anyone could simply shoot down the person who robbed a wallet, just because a law was beeing broken.
For those who believe in this, certainly your president had no other solution after what happened in 9/11. For those who think like me, that's just an evidence of a massive cynicism that oftenly is the cause why we, non-North Americans, sometimes tend to take the part for the whole when it comes to your country.
Uff, and I'm still in your first post here, man.
Is it easy to ship a nuclear ogive out of a country like Iraq? Probably is, yes.
Is it easy to ship a good hundred of WMD out of a country like Iraq without the US noticing it? Don't think so, but could happen.
But, and here is where your tricky leaders don't want you to look at, is it easy to hide/destroy the means which led to the construction of such WMD without the US (who were already intensively seeking for any evidence in Iraq, as Powell demonstrated in the UN) knowing it? No way. Absolutely no way. And you don't even have to be a skilled engineer to know that.
This argument is the sort of dirt your government throws to your people's eyes. Unfortunately it seems to blind most of you.
Many people screwed up, but I only saw two countries invading Iraq. And you can't even use the 'violating the 1441 res' argument because your country waged a war outside the UN sphere. If that argument has any sort of validity, then anyone could simply shoot down the person who robbed a wallet, just because a law was beeing broken.
For those who believe in this, certainly your president had no other solution after what happened in 9/11. For those who think like me, that's just an evidence of a massive cynicism that oftenly is the cause why we, non-North Americans, sometimes tend to take the part for the whole when it comes to your country.
Uff, and I'm still in your first post here, man.
I also love the ''rich don't work'' argument. Almost as good as the ''People on the right pay all the taxes so that people on the left can "help" people'' argument you used back there. But mate, I was being sarcastic, too. Didn't you read?
And, assuming you weren't being sarcastic now, that's a very weak argument, I must say. So the reason why rich are rich is because they make choices in life to reach a goal? I don't want to be insulting, that is not my purpose, but you clearly:
a) aren't rich;
b) are less than 23 years old;
c) don't know anything about life yet.
Really, so all we need to be rich is working longer hours? Hey, those kids in India who saw the Adidas and Nike balls you play with must be swimming in money. Or maybe their problem was the choices they made in order to reach a goal? Or didn't they pay attention in school (for those who were given the opportunity)?
We are in complete agreement in this case. It's obvious as the days go by that the "plan" was not a plan at all, but seemed more like some wishful thinking. I do think that most Iraqi's are probably happy we are there, and many soldiers wree welcomed.. but don't expect to hear such things in the media.
I am being sarcastic to a point. But the numbers don't lie in this country as to who is paying the taxes. There is some doubt as to who actually pays corporate taxes.. well, I don't have any doubt, that's easy.. The consumer pays ALL corporate taxes. But as far as individual income taxes go, I think the top 50 percent or so pay around 96 percent of all taxes. I am trying to find a link to prove this, but can only come up with websites so far that I don't know and therefore can't trust to be accurate. When I find one, I will pass it along.
I am older than 23, not rich, but not poor either, and know plenty about life and the world.
In the USA, you really have to try hard to screw up your life. I am not talking about India or China or any other third world country. In this country, one has every opportunity to make something of his or herself. Not everyone is born into the best circumstances of course, and have to work harder at it. The problem is that our governmeny run education system is making most people quite dumb in this country. And that's the way the politicians want it.
I worked 3 jobs at one point in my life, and went to school full time. When I hear people complaining about "not being able to find work" it makes me sick. They just can't find the work that they "want." Sometimes you have to do things you don't like in life until something better comes along. That's my philosphy anyway. But we are spoiled here in the US.
I have read lots of books on this stuff in History with nation's foreign policy and Reagan was a dangerous man in office. But it was clever to trick the USSR to go into another arms race and **** up their reform process! 
but not Russia, would be better back as the USSR. BUT anyway back to the topic. Bush Jr (like a Burger King burger) 
and Reagan are the most dangerous presidents i feel and Bush has screwed up the domestic economy, neglected the education system and forgot about health and other services that Americans need! Americans vote for domestic issues, NOT the stupid war on terror. I supported the war in Iraq but it is becoming too costly now and i say America should look after itself and Iraq's restructure process.
but not Russia, would be better back as the USSR. BUT anyway back to the topic. Bush Jr (like a Burger King burger) and Reagan are the most dangerous presidents i feel and Bush has screwed up the domestic economy, neglected the education system and forgot about health and other services that Americans need! Americans vote for domestic issues, NOT the stupid war on terror. I supported the war in Iraq but it is becoming too costly now and i say America should look after itself and Iraq's restructure process.USA Supporter
Reserve Team
Originally posted by Glorious_Fan
I have read lots of books on this stuff in History with nation's foreign policy and Reagan was a dangerous man in office. But it was clever to trick the USSR to go into another arms race and **** up their reform process!
The economy has really improved in the past few months under Bush.
People will care about international issues more in this election than the past few ones, but domestic issues are still more important. The war in Iraq is important but there are a lot of other issues that are key in this election, such as the usual ones like the economy and gay marriage will be stressed greatly for the first time in a presidential election.
Originally posted by Glorious_Fan
I have read lots of books on this stuff in History with nation's foreign policy and Reagan was a dangerous man in office. But it was clever to trick the USSR to go into another arms race and **** up their reform process!
I guess we need another economics lesson... The economy was falling apart before Bush came into office. At the moment, the economy is improving, not getting worse... But as I said before in another post, a President doesn't have much control over that anyway.
Neglected health care? Please... just passed the largest medicare entitlement in history... Education.. please.. increased funding with the help of Ted Kennedy to astronomical proportions... Bush is a big time spender who hasn't vetoed a single bill yet.
Was Reagan a dangerous President? Maybe to those who feared him. But I think he goes down as one of the most succesful Presidents in US history. And he and Bush are quite alike. They believe what they say, and do what they believe is right for the country.. for better or for worse.
Originally posted by Moron
**** YOU!!
Jimmy Carter
BIATCH!!!!
Moron here is proof positive that my statement earlier about our education system sucking was correct.
Jimmy Carter will go down as one of the WORST Presidents of all time. He was a completely worthless waste of 4 years. We are still feelings the effects of his bull**** Presidency.
STFU bitch
Carter was a true democrat!!!!! He was the democrat that understood the issues of the workers of the US. The problem with the Carter administration is that of circumstance, his presidency was a victim of circumstance. He had some pretty forward looking proposals in the US at the time. For instance if his fuel efficentcy standards were to stay in place the US wouldn't have had to import any Middle Eastern oil! The world today would be markedly safer then that of the one we live in today. The militarization that followed Carter under Reagan was a bad omen for the future of man. The Reagan era is basically the pre-cursor to all the ills that the US suffers today, deficits, debts, militarization, and the key players all came from that administration. The religious right found it's voice in the moral realist which was Reagan. I think detente would have happened under Carter, and a generally more peaceful world.The Cold War would have ended eariler, and we wouldn't be facing the vacumm that we face today in a uni-polar world. Carter would have been a better president.
F U C K R E A G A N
xxxFLYERxxx
Starting XI
Good job copying and pasting from another website, moron.
Even the democrats admit Carter was a horrible president. Nobody liked that guy.
Even the democrats admit Carter was a horrible president. Nobody liked that guy.
Originally posted by Moron
STFU bitch
Carter was a true democrat!!!!! He was the democrat that understood the issues of the workers of the US. The problem with the Carter administration is that of circumstance, his presidency was a victim of circumstance. He had some pretty forward looking proposals in the US at the time. For instance if his fuel efficentcy standards were to stay in place the US wouldn't have had to import any Middle Eastern oil! The world today would be markedly safer then that of the one we live in today. The militarization that followed Carter under Reagan was a bad omen for the future of man. The Reagan era is basically the pre-cursor to all the ills that the US suffers today, deficits, debts, militarization, and the key players all came from that administration. The religious right found it's voice in the moral realist which was Reagan. I think detente would have happened under Carter, and a generally more peaceful world.The Cold War would have ended eariler, and we wouldn't be facing the vacumm that we face today in a uni-polar world. Carter would have been a better president.
F U C K R E A G A N
I have to say that I think Carter meant well, and wanted to do good things for the world. In fact, he has done a lot of good for the world, but only after his Presidency ended. But I have to disagree with you on a few things..
The Cold War wouldn't have ended sooner. It would have ended eventually, but Reagan was the main reason it sped up as it did. His speech at the Berlin Wall goes down in history as one of the all time most important.
The economy was a disaster under Carter. If he was a victim of cirumstance, he didn't do anything to help the situation. He was negative, and Reagan was positive about our Country. That is why Carter was creamed.
Carter ****ed up with Iran badly, and made the US look very weak when those hostages were kept in Iran for so long. Remember, they were released the day his Presidency ended.
Deficits are the responsibilty of Congress, not the President. Reagan, when he cut taxes, increased revenue to the Federal Government by extreme amounts.. Only for the Democratic run Congress to spend more than what they had coming in. It's happening as we speak again. Yet this time it's a Republican Congress. Go figure.
But "forward looking proposals" mean squat if you can't implement them. It's good to think about nice things, and think about helping people, but doing it is another problem all together.
It's just too bad he won a Nobel Peace Prize as a protest against the US and not for his efforts in the Middle East.
Well, I agree with that part, especially since it has been establishing itself as a modern society's fatality (I'm talking about the educational system). What is so scary about this, apart from the fact that you can't have a conversation with a 16 year-old kid without being baffled with their lack of knowledge, is that it probably came to stay. It's common sense now. We're so used to it that we take it as a given fact, one that is as normal to life as the sun rising every morning. Know what I mean? Stuff like ''yes, kids are learning less and less these days, but what can we do about it?''
I can only be scared at the thought these are the people who will be in charge when I'll be (if everything goes well
) old and most dependent on the State. 
Your second paragraph also makes more sense to me than anything you've written until now. In any given western country, much more depends on your personal effort and how much you're willing to risk than in any other place of the world, assuming your goals in life are based in trivialities such as getting rich or buying a sports car. [Mine aren't (although financial safety is a priority), but I respect anyone and the choices they make.
]Still, there are exceptions; it's hard to find a job, any job, when you're past 45yo and suddenly got laid-off. I know a couple of people in that situation and it isn't easy, man. They feel totally useless and a complete failure. Depression rapidly takes control over them and it becomes hard to turn the tide...
Originally posted by INFESTA
Well, I agree with that part, especially since it has been establishing itself as a modern society's fatality (I'm talking about the educational system). What is so scary about this, apart from the fact that you can't have a conversation with a 16 year-old kid without being baffled with their lack of knowledge, is that it probably came to stay. It's common sense now. We're so used to it that we take it as a given fact, one that is as normal to life as the sun rising every morning. Know what I mean? Stuff like ''yes, kids are learning less and less these days, but what can we do about it?''
I can only be scared at the thought these are the people who will be in charge when I'll be (if everything goes well
Your second paragraph also makes more sense to me than anything you've written until now. In any given western country, much more depends on your personal effort and how much you're willing to risk than in any other place of the world, assuming your goals in life are based in trivialities such as getting rich or buying a sports car. [Mine aren't (although financial safety is a priority), but I respect anyone and the choices they make.
Still, there are exceptions; it's hard to find a job, any job, when you're past 45yo and suddenly got laid-off. I know a couple of people in that situation and it isn't easy, man. They feel totally useless and a complete failure. Depression rapidly takes control over them and it becomes hard to turn the tide...
It's good to know we agree on something! It happens from time to time.
The educational system in this country is a complete mess. When I was in High School I had football coaches teaching me English, yet they didn't know the language themselves. Things have actually become very bad for children in this country. And I know this feeling of "what is anyone supposed to do about it?" That is where it gets tricky, but politicians aren't willing to take the steps neccesary to fix the problems.
My opinion is that government should get out of the business of running education. It's funny, but when doing some research about private schools vs state schools, the amount of money it takes to educate a child in private school is much less than in public school. I think where I live the figure was 13,000 dollars per student in public school against 3,000 per student in private school. In government, there is so much waste, it doesn't surprise me.
But I also agree on the fact that older people have a hard time finding a job if they get laid off. Alot of that problem has to do with people who are in jobs where they only learn one skill in life, say.. making the bumper on a car, and then that bumper is being made by a robot instead. It's tough, and I think the state has some role to play in helping, but how much?
I justwish people would stop complaining in the "West." Life is damn good here.. In America, you can have a cell phone, tv's, radios, cars, etc. and still be classified as "poor." It's amazing.
so I dont have a choice..
!!!