National Teams/Leagues attn: mrliioadin & Rinaldo

[Metfanant]

So I remember reading somewhere about someone trying to create a league for national teams to mimic what national teams go through....friendlies....then tournaments....but I also remember there being problems...


So here is the deal...is it possible to create a league that works like a regular national team schedule would?

I am on a different computer so I do not have creation master in front of me to play with but I did come up with a few ideas & questions that maybe some people could answer....

I am just brainstorming here so work with me lol im just going to type everything that came to mind as I was driving home from the Gold Cup games tonight...

so take a national team like Italy...competes in the UEFA federation....according to my limited logic...if one created "UEFA" as a league....you could then play with "UEFA" teams through a "season" correct?...

well what if you wanted to add in the European Championships and say the World Cup?....becomes tricky....BUT...would it be possible...through the start and close dates option in creation master to make "seasons" that last over a 4 year span?...you could then schedule the Euro cup during the 2nd year of the "season" and the World Cup during the 4th year of the "season"....

Now to me...on paper (which is sure to be the key here) it SHOULD work no?...

Now...brainstorming session number 2...when you enter manager mode...after setting your manager settings you then choose the country from which you wish to coach a team...if one were to create a country called "World" and said league was linked to it....it would be an option for manager mode correct? or am i missing something?....


and here is where i nearly stumped myself....how do you get it so that people can play all sorts of national team games in the "league" but make sure only European teams qualify for the Euro cup etc...but ALL teams can qualify for the world cup?...I am assuming for the time being that this is IMPOSSIBLE to do...because as far as I understand including teams from different confederations in your league would be fine...but excluding teams for a tournament based on their confederation is impossible...at least my knowledge of CM07 would lead me to believe it is....

So I would say that one could only play "national team leagues" and keep them within certain federations if you would want to include more tournaments then just the World Cup....but if you wanted to just keep it to the World Cup every 4 years...then by all means it should work with all international teams...

Now this would take loads of time...and I would be more than willing to make this happen....but before i really get going id like to make sure it is theoretically possible before putting my time and effort into the project...

 

[RobbieD_PL]

I dont thik ur able to span stuff over more than two years, even in career mode

 

[Metfanant]

I dont thik ur able to span stuff over more than two years, even in career mode

i think you might be right....but I hope there is a way around it....

 

[mrliioadin]

This is one of the goals of the National Team Packs, To offer an alternative patch where your team would play in small "leagues" (because this is required), as well as a full Confederational Championship Tournament (Gold Cup, Copa America, OFC Nations Cup). Then they would all undergo World Cup Qualifications as well...

Everything has to be condensed to fit in a two year period and the leagues have to be small to avoid teams from having hundreds of games in a single season.

I have gotten international LEAGUES to work for a single season or two seasons BUT the problem that Donovanfan came up with is going to take a while to remedy.

We'll be starting in CONMEBOL because that is the smallest confederation, I created half the teams so they are set up for easy "correction".

The CONMEBOL season will look like this:

CSF Division 1:

Brazil
Argentina
Paraguay
Uruguay
Ecuador

CSF Division 2:

Colombia
Chile
Peru
Venezuela
Bolivia

Copa America:

Copa America will be an 8 team tournament instead of a 12 team tournament. The top 8 in the confederation will participate. I've considered doing all 10, but I do want the leagues to mean at least a little something.

Group A:

Divsion 1 1st
Division 1 4th
Division 1 5th
Division 2 3rd

Group B:

Division 1 2nd
Division 1 3rd
Division 2 1st
Division 2 2nd

Semifinal:

1A:2B
1B:2A

3rd/4th

Looser1:Looser2

Final:

Winner1:Winner2

------------------------------------------------

World Cup Qualifying will still be 10 teams 1 Group home and away Round Robin but all the top 5 will qualify directly NO PLAYOFFS.

We'll probably do 2 teams promoted and relegated to keep some variety.

This makes the count for each CONMEBOL team:

4 "League" Games
18 World Cup Qualifying Games

8 teams will recieve at least 3 games in the Copa America.
4 Teams will recieve 2 Knockout Stage Games in the Copa America.

5 Teams will get between 3 and 7 Games at the world cup when that tournament is added.

There are still some other things that need to be played with to get things working right and it will be some trial and error but this is something I fully believe is "Possible" and it's an issue of making some adjustments.

I am hoping to expand the KIRIN CUP tournament to 4 teams with a short knockout stage. We'll invite FIRST place from Division 1 in the CSF for sure.

It will probably include a lower level team in the UEFA Leagues, and one from africa lower leagues. Japan would auto Qualify.

-------------------------------

The question of the time frame: We're going to set your LEAGUE matches (normally 4) in the first few months (Probably September-October). August has to be avoided because of the transfer window (at least I think it's in August). You don't want your national team players accepting deals to other countries so to avoid it (but not eliminate it) we won't give you the option to sign players thru the transfer market. This means you have to pay attention to your youth camps, and scout in your native land.

November will begin the subConfederational championships. Hopefully We will play:

Kirin Cup
Gulf Nations Cup
Indian Ocean Cup
South Pacific Islands Cup
UNCAF Nations Cup
Caribbean Cup

the 4 Asian cups (including one we need to make up for central and south central asia)

5 African Cups (which are normally played with youth or local players, they will be used as full international tournaments for qualifying purposes).

As well we'll hope to get the first half of the Euro Qualifying Games. The Euro "Leagues" may need to be condensed to a week or two weeks to make room to run all of their qualifying in the October - December window. We have to avoid the January Transfer window.

In February, we play the:

Gold Cup
Euro Cup
Copa America
OFC Nations Cup
AFC Asia Cup
CAF Cup of Nations

Hopefully we can fit this in before April so that we can begin running the Qualifying matches then. THe first round can be done in two weeks. The second round will probably take all of May. The Final Rounds probably all of JUNE. The world Cup Tournament will need to be completed in JULY.

If we run into any transfer windows we'll probably have to cut some things out here and there but I think we can smash it and push and pull it to make it all fit.

Because we cant really do HOSTS... everyone will qualify for world cup and confederational cups. Africa will get 6 world cup berths, UEFA 12, OFC will qualify thru asia in the final round of AFC qualifying. Asia will get 5. CONMEBOL will get 5, CONCACAF will get 4.

thats 6+12=18+5=23+5=28+4=32

 

[RobbieD_PL]

So will all the confederation tournaments fuse into one massive tournament with the World Cup?

How is that going to work?

 

[mrliioadin]

Confederational Tournaments feed into the Confederations cup. We'll play that probably before World Cup Qualifying begins.

You Have the WORLD CUP TREE with qualifying for all teams.

Then the CONFEDERATIONS CUP TREE with a tournament for every team in the world (some modified to include a team, some changed to exclude invitees, some created just for those teams).

 

[Metfanant]

ok......so.....

Just to clarify....we are 100% stuck to a 2 year limit on "seasons" in manager mode?....

I just ask for a couple reasons....are we stuck because of our current means of modification (CM) or because of an issue with the game itself?....

assuming we are stuck period as we believe....

will we be in a situation where we are looking at Euro and World Cup taking place in the same year....or will each one take place for arguments sake in July (1st year you play Euro, 2nd year you play WC)??

And am i understanding you when you say that ALL international teams will be included in the SAME league, you just play in different groups, leading to different tournaments?

 

[donovanfan3456]

One other problem is that there would be player trades between national teams.

 

[StevePitts]

are we stuck because of our current means of modification (CM) or because of an issue with the game itself?....

You are stuck because the game itself only caters for leagues spread over (slightly less than) a calendar year. You can stretch it to two because the game does cope with leagues that start in April as well as August (for example) and therefore has the concept of 'this year' and 'next year' (basically the date ranges in the RTSG data are just months and weeks (within months) plus the 'this year' or 'next year' designation)

It might also be worth noting that if you are going to try and implement a career mode option with the season spread over more than a calendar year then that is almost certainly going to cause some interesting anomalies in player growth (which you can partially simulate by switching between leagues after each season, moving from a league that starts in April to a league that starts in August, and vice versa)

 

[Metfanant]

One other problem is that there would be player trades between national teams.

to avoid this you have to schedule the season around the transfer periods....if the league is not in session during those months I do not believe it will give the chance for transfers....

 

[Metfanant]

if there is no way to spread the league more than a CALENDAR year then we may be out of luck....we have to avoid 4 months of transfers...January, June, July, and August no games can take place during those months, unless someone can find a way to disable transfers in a league....fitting "league" matches, qualifiers, and multiple tournies into 8months is going to be VERY hard...

 

[ash_footballmad]

also what about players retiring and calling up new players to the national side. i dont think that'll work properly

 

[Metfanant]

also what about players retiring and calling up new players to the national side. i dont think that'll work properly

that is a good point....you would be stuck with just using youth players....

 

[mrliioadin]

The transfers issue was adressed above, you have to avoid the transfer window has to be avoided so that fewer trades occur but they still will occur. Your side will be correct though. There is no way around this.

I promise you we can fit all the games in that we need to even if we only had a few months to work with. The teams are playing in very very short leagues with very few games and then a ton of tournaments and it will probably translate to fewer games than The Football League Championship teams.

Yes you would be limited to scouting and using youth players. It's up to you to scout domestically only. Youth players will supliment your squad (at least they should).

I promise it will work guys, but there will be compromises. This mode is set up for club teams, we can only do a little bit with the national teams in manager mode but I want to do what I can and it looks like there is some bit of interest

-----------------------

EDIT -- Again not to toot my own horn but everything you guys are mentioning I've thought of before. I've been wanting to do this for years and just not had the means to do so. CM07 has changed that. You have to make sacrifices, but I will be pretty happy being able to take the US nats through one cycle of a world cup... We compete in the Gold Cup, then WCQ and do our best in the World Cup. Then we're done. Roughly 20 games.

 

[ash_footballmad]

if you think you can do it, then im not stopping you

 

[mrliioadin]

Yea I'm sure we can. Just have to make some sacrifices (which sux, but EA won't help us out anytime soon).

 

[Platini10]

Yes you would be limited to scouting and using youth players. It's up to you to scout domestically only. Youth players will supliment your squad (at least they should).

I promise it will work guys, but there will be compromises. This mode is set up for club teams, we can only do a little bit with the national teams in manager mode but I want to do what I can and it looks like there is some bit of interest

This is a nice concept, but I don't think that there a way to limit the nationality of the youth players in a Manager Mode. For example, Isn't highly likely that if you were playing as England, you would get youth players from all over Europe. ie: an England side with German youths, etc...

You can intentionally scout domestic players, but the cpu won't.

 

[mrliioadin]

This is a nice concept, but I don't think that there a way to limit the nationality of the youth players in a Manager Mode. For example, Isn't highly likely that if you were playing as England, you would get youth players from all over Europe. ie: an England side with German youths, etc...

You can intentionally scout domestic players, but the cpu won't.

This is one place where we may have to use our imagination a bit.

 

[Metfanant]

well since we are stuck with one rotation of the league at most....why not just try and make this work in the "tournament mode" of the game....you can play one full cycle....league-->confederation cup-->World Cup

 

[mrliioadin]

Why do you think we're stuck with one rotation? The point of manager mode is to continue across several season. Give you multiple chances at other tournies.