National Teams/Leagues attn: mrliioadin & Rinaldo

[Metfanant]

Why do you think we're stuck with one rotation? The point of manager mode is to continue across several season. Give you multiple chances at other tournies.

I Thought I remember you saying you were having issues with playing 1 or two more seasons??....Maybe I was wrong...


Also...just had an idea....in CM...there is an option to sign players from places...and then a secondary place....if that if both of those places are set to the same country....will it affect the youth players?? maybe keeping them to the proper country....

 

[mrliioadin]

I Thought I remember you saying you were having issues with playing 1 or two more seasons??....Maybe I was wrong...


Also...just had an idea....in CM...there is an option to sign players from places...and then a secondary place....if that if both of those places are set to the same country....will it affect the youth players?? maybe keeping them to the proper country....

To the first - right now I can't complete more than one season. It probably has more to do with players being on two teams. That's an easy but time consuming fix (donovanfan kinda figured that one out).

To the second. I am really really hoping that setting in CM will limit where I recruit players from but I have no tested it yet. But that's what I'm banking on. Otherwise we'll need to use a lot of imagination.

 

[Metfanant]

ok so lets get this all worked out....you have a couple people here (myself and donovan fan) willing to help out in anyway possible to get this done...so lets make a checklist of sorts, and see what we can get done and try to make this happen sooner rather than later....

also, do you think you would be able to private message me kinda the basics for your attributes formula? im just curious to see how it works...

 

[mrliioadin]

I absolutely need to get better at accepting help and critisism so this is a good thing for me. I can't get to it yet and you are willing to take over and while I really really really wish I could just do it myself, I know you will do a great job and I need to let you.

The attributes system is very complex and probably needs some tweaking anyway but let's start in south america since it is small and all of the teams are already reattributed. Rosters could use updates and a few player attributes and formations should probably be adjusted but we can do this a bit at a time.

Let's start with the CSF Division 1. 5 Teams in a league, a single match a piece so the entire league play is just 4 games.

What needs to happen is we need the national teams that are already created remade. You need to export all the graphics (kits, logos most importantly). When you completely remake the Brazilian national team for example DO NOT list them as a national team, and DO NOT delete the origional.

Once you get all the graphics and settings correct for the new team, go in and clone every player on the squad. Rename them, and move them onto the new Brazil. The player attributes, physical attributes and everything else will be the same as the origional but he does come without a name. Give him a name and move him to the new brazil so that THIS NEW PLAYER is on ONLY the CLUB BRAZIL (we'll refer to them as Nat.Brazil and Club Brazil).

So we'll have two Brazil's in our game. One is in the international section, it is listed as a national team and it's players will be on multiple teams but this isn't the brazil we'll be using for this project. It may be worth it to make these teams with an "*" to keep track of which team is which and to indicate which ones have been completed.

In the end We'll have two Brazilian Teams.

Brazil and Brazil* ... Brazil will have a Ronaldinho on it's team listed at a 99 and he will be on ONLY this team. Later we will revert the origional player attributes back to normal so Ronaldinho on Brazil* will be on Barce and have a rating of 90 or 91 (or w/e).

After all players in the game are cloned we'll probably delete the teams in the international section and put our all-star teams in there.

You do have to make the new Brazil from scratch, there is no easy way around it. But it shouldn't take long, export the graphics, create the team, copy the info, import the graphics. Then mess with cloning your players.

There is a great chance of getting things mixed up having two instances of Ronaldinho, Brazil, etc. try to keep things sorted out using Astrisks *.

It's gonna be tedious work but we can get it done. About Half way through making these teams I stopped listing teams as national teams so getting to that point will help to UNcomplicate things.

I didnt list everything here so there is a bit more to the final product but hopefully any bugs we come across can get sorted out.

Let's aim for getting CSF division 1 done with:

Brazil
Argentina
Uruguay
Paraguay
Ecuador

Then we'll work on the CSF Division 2:

Colombia
Peru
Chile
Venezuela
Bolivia

Then we can get the Copa America working.

Getting all this done will be extremely redundant and tedious so any milestone we can achieve will come with a large amount of respect from me for your efforts.

 

[Metfanant]

ok so here is the deal....I have messed with your teams slightly...editing the attributes...so let me back up my current files...and i will re install your patches so everything (attributes, etc) will stay as a constant) and then get to doing some work...

 

[Metfanant]

ok, quick question....

do the players HAVE to be cloned?....I see no reason why i can not use dB master and copy and paste the existing players onto the teams.....so then it will read...say for Ronaldinho that he plays for

Brazil
Barca
World XI
Brazil*

then we will go delete regular brazil and...bingo....


Edit: ok....well i just read your original post again and i see they need to be ONLY on the new team...

 

[aryan07]

guys,i'd like to help.plz tell me which files to download ad i'll give my best.

 

[mrliioadin]

Alright. I typed a HUGE post with a ton of information on how the Tournaments would work out and somehow I lost it ALL..... I slept off my frustration (cause I easily spent an hour on it if not more). And I'm trying again.

We'll break it into TIERS. As we work on these Patches we should try to complete the tiers from Bottom to Top by Confederation. For example get all of CONMEBOL working in through the Tier 1 tournaments/leagues... then move up. This will make more sense when I'm done.

------------------------------Tier 7 -------------------------------------

World Cup Finals
- 32 Teams
- Finalists qualify through vast Qualification tournaments.

------------------------------ Tier 6 ------------------------------------

|-----World Cup Qualifying-------------------------------------
| - Every Team in the world Participates
| - Broken down into 5 Confederational Tournaments listed below
| - OFC Qualifies through AFC
| - NO intercontinental playoffs
|---------------------------------------------------------------------


CONMEBOL Qualifying
- 10 Teams in a Single group Round Robin. Home and Away Matches.
- Top 5 qualify directly.

OFC Qualifying is covered BELOW (South Pacific Games, OFC Nations Cup).

CONCACAF Qualifying
- 38 Teams in three rounds of qualifying.
- Total of 4 Qualifiers
- All rounds, Home and Away matches are implied.

- 1st Round is broken down into 10 groups of 3 teams and 2 groups of 4
- These are knockout fixtures with the groups of 3 having 1 "BYE" team.
- Winners of each group moves on to the SemiFinals

- SemiFinals are 3 Round Robin groups of 4 teams
- Winners and Runners Up move on to the Finals

- Finals are a single 6 team group
- 1st through 4th qualify directly.

AFC Qualifying
- 47 Teams
- 3 Rounds
- Total of 5 Qualifiers.
- All rounds, Home and Away matches are implied.

- First Round is a set of 19 Knockout Fixtures with the winner moving to the Second Round

- Second Round is 7 groups of 4 teams
- 9 Teams receive a BYE to this round.
- Winners only advance to the Final Round

- Third Round is 2 Groups of 4 teams each
- OFC Nations Cup Champion joins the AFC Qualifying process
- the 7 group winners from the 2nd round join to make 2 groups of 4, total of 8
- The Winners and Runners Up qualify directly.
- Group A and Group B's 3rds playoff for the Final AFC Spot.

UEFA Qualifying
- Total of 53 teams
- Single Round, 8 Groups Home and Away matches
- 5 Groups of 7 Teams, 3 Groups of 6 Teams.
- 8 Group Winners Qualify directly.
- 8 Runners up compete in 4 Knockout Fixtures for the final 4 spots.

CAF Qualifying
- total of 55 Teams
- 2 Rounds
- Home and Away Matches are implied in all rounds.

- First round is 19 Knockout Fixtures (38 Teams) Winners advance to the Finals.
- Final Round is 6 groups of 6
- 17 Teams recieve a BYE to this round.
- Winners of each group Qualify Directly.


------------------------------------- Tier 5 -----------------------------------------------

Confederations Cup
- 8 Teams
- 2 Groups
- Group Winners advance to the SemiFinal Round

- Qualifiers for the Confederations Cup come from the Confederational Championship Tournaments
- 1 Qualifier from, OFC Nations Cup, Gold Cup, AFC Asian Cup and African Cup of Nations
- 2 Qualifiers from Euro Cup and Copa America.

-------------------------------------Tier 4 -----------------------------------------------

NOTE: No home and away unless otherwise states
* - indicates an "Invented" tournament.
^ - indicates a modified, existing tournament.

Copa America^
- 10 Teams
- 2 Groups of 5 Teams

- Winners and Runners Up for each group advance to SemiFinals

- Winners and Runners Up for the Tournament advance to the Confederations Cup

OFC Nations Cup
- 4 Teams
- Single Group Round Robin (NO HOME AND AWAY)
- New Zealand Qualfies Automatically
- Winner, Runner Up and Third from the South Pacific Games Qualify for this Cup.
- Winner of group is Cup Winner. they Qualify for Confed. Cup and move to AFC WC Qualifying

Gold Cup^
- 12 Teams
- USA, MEX, CAN Qualify Directly. 5 UNCAF Teams and 4 Caribbean Cup Teams join.
- 3 Groups of 4 Teams
- Winners and Runners up move to Quarter Finals
- 3 3rds play a short round robin with top 2 advancing to Quarter Finals.

AFC Asian Cup
- 16 Teams
- Qualifiers/Quantity: 2 ASEAN, 4 East Asian, 8 West Asian, 2 South/Central Asian*
- This qualification processes is used instead of MORE qualifying.
- 4 Groups of 4 Teams, 8 Quarter Finalists.

Euro Cup
- 16 Teams
- Qualifiers from for Euro Cup Qualifying.
- 4 Groups of 4 Teams, 8 QuarterFinalists.

African Cup of Nations
- 16 Teams
- Qualifiers/Quantity: 3 COSAFA, 1 CECAFA, 2 CEMAC, 7 Amilcar Cabral Cup, 3 North Africa Cup
- This qualification processes is used instead of MORE qualifying.
- 4 Groups of 4 Teams. 8 QuarterFinalists.

----------------------------------------Tier 3 -----------------------------------------------

South Pacific Games
- 13 Teams
- 3 groups of 3 teams & 1 group of 4 teams.
- Winner of each group moves to the SemiFinals.
- Winner, Runner up, and 3rd Place advance to OFC Nations Cup

----- Participants are:
----- (Fiji, Solomon Islands, Vanuatu, Tahiti, Papua New Guinea, New Caledonia, Tonga, Samoa, ------ Cook Islands, American Samoa, Micronesia, Tuvalu, Kiribati)

UNCAF Nations Cup
- 7 Teams
- 1 Group of 3 teams, 1 Group of 4 Teams
- Winners and Runners up advance to the Semifinals (all semifinalists qualify for Gold Cup).
- THE TWO THIRD PLACE TEAMS PLAYOFF FOR FINAL GOLD CUP SPOT

----- Participants are:
----- Guatemala, Belize, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Honduras, Panama, Costa Rica

Caribbean Cup^
- 28 Teams
- Preliminary portion is 4 Groups of 7... Each GROUP has 2 rounds.

- Round 1
- Bottom 4 Teams play Round Robin with the Winner advancing to Round 2.

- Round 2
- Top 3 seeds in each group of 7 recieves a BYE to this round
- Winner of Round 1 joins these 3 to make another group of 4 teams
- Winners and Runners up Advance to the Finals.

- Finals
- 2 groups of 4 teams. Winners and Runners up advance to Semifinals.

----- Participants are:
----- Guyana, Suriname, Grenada, Netherlands Antillies, Barbados, Antigua & Barbuda, Saint Kitts & Nevis, Anguilla, Bermuda, Dominican Republic, US Virgin Islands, British Virgin Islands, Haiti, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Jamaica, Saint Lucia, Cuba, Bahamas, Turks and Caicos Islands, Cayman Islands, Guadeloupe, Martinique, Saint-Martin, Dominica, Aruba, Montserrat, Puerto Rico, Trinidad and Tobago

ASEAN Football Championship^
- 12 Teams
- 4 Groups of 3 teams, group winners advance to Semifinals
- Cup Winner and Runner up advance to AFC Asia Cup

----- Participants:
----- Australia, Brunei Darussalam, Cambodia, Timor Leste, Indonesia, Laos, Thailand, Singapore, Malaysia, Myanmar, Vietnam, Philippines

East Asia Cup^
- 10 Teams
- 2 Group Stages
- Top 4 Teams recieve BYES to Second Round

- First Round
- 2 groups of 3 teams
- Winners and Runners up advance to round 2

- Round 2
- 2 groups of 4 teams
- 2 Group Winners playoff for 1st place (Both Qualify for AFC Asian Cup)
- 2 Runners up teams Playoff of 3rd place (Both Qualify for AFC Asian Cup)
- 2 Thirds playoff for 5th place


----- Participants:
----- China PR, Chinese Taipei, Macau, Hong Kong, Guam, Japan, Mongolia, Korea DPR, Northern Mariana Islands, Korea Republic

West Asian Football Federation Championship^
- 13 teams
- 3 groups of 3 teams, 1 group of 4 teams
- Group Winners and Runners up advance to Quarterfinals (all qualify for AFC Asian Cup)

----- Participants:
----- Bahrain, Iran, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Oman, Palestine, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Syria, United Arab Emerates, Yemen

South/Central Asian Cup*
- 12 teams
- 4 groups of 4 teams
- Winners advance to the Semifinals
- Cup Winner and Runner up qualify for AFC Asia Cup

----- Participants:
----- Afghanistan, Bangledesh, Bhutan, India, Kyrgyszstan, Maldives, Nepal, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan

COSAFA Cup^
- 16 Teams from Southern Africa
- 4 groups of 4 teams (Knockout style)
- Winners of each group advance to Semi Finals
- Cup Winners, Runners up and 3rd place qualify for African Cup of Nations

----- Participants:
----- Madagascar, Zimbabwe, Seychelles, Mozambique, Malawi, Swaziland, Mauritius, South Africa, Angola, Lesotho, Botswana, Namibia, Zambia, Comoros, Reunion, Congo DR

CECAFA Cup^
- 11 Teams from the East coast of Africa

- First Round
- 4 teams in knockout play.
- Winner advances to the second round.

- Second Round
- 8 Teams in knockout play
- Winner advances to the African Cup of Nations

----- Participants
----- Tanzania, Ethiopia, Djibouti, Burundi, Zanzibar, Uganda, Sudan, Rwanda, Somalia, Eritrea, Kenya

CEMAC Cup^
- 8 Teams from Central Africa
- 2 Groups of 4 teams
- Winners and Runners up move to Semi Finals
- Cup Winner and Runner up qualify for African Cup of Nations.

----- Participants:
----- Chad, Cameroon, Nigeria, Central African Republic, Congo-Brazzeville, Gabon, Equitorial Guinea, Sao Tome e Principe

Amilcar Cabril Cup^
- 15 Teams from Western Africa
- 3 Groups of 4 teams, 1 Group of 3 teams
- Winners and Runners up advance to Quarter Finals (All qualify of African Cup of Nations)

----- Participants
----- Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Sierra Leone, Liberia, Ivory Coast, Benin, Togo, Mali, Burkina Faso, Gambia, Cape Verde Islands, Ghana, Niger, Mauritania, Senegal

North Africa Cup*
- 5 Teams
- 1 Group Round Robin
- Group Winner is Cup Winner
- Winner, Runner up, and 3rd in group play qualify for African Cup of Nations

----- Participants
----- Morocco, Tunisia, Egypt, Libya, Algeria

Euro Cup Qualifying
- 53 Teams
- EXACT SAME Qualification FORMAT as the World Cup Qualifying, but different groups are used

-------------------------------------------Tier 2 -------------------------------------------

This tier would be for invitational tournaments, open tournaments or other independant competitions that are relatively unconnected to any other event.

I won't go into these tournaments in detail and this tier can be skipped for a while but I do want to include many of these tournaments.

Some Tournaments that may be included are:

Kirin Cup
Gulf Cup of Nations
Micronesia Games (further team creation required)
Indian Ocean Games
Baltic Cup
Mediterranian Games
Arab Nations Cup
Kings Cup
AFC Challenge Cup
Island Games
Murrati Vase Cup

---------------------------------- Tier 1 --------------------------------------------

This is where the leagues would go. I'll get to that later haha. I typed enough.

 

[mrliioadin]

I want to get a couple teams done today too so I won't post all of this in detail but I wanted to seperate it from the tourny list.

I wanted to describe the League Based Rating System (LBRS)

I'll add the rest later BUT. Here's kinda how it goes:

First of all each team is given an overall suggested rating. We're talking 200+ teams so I needed some help getting them ranked. I used my best judgement and compared FIFA and ELO ranked and decided that the August 2007 FIFA rankings (at least near the top of the table, top 10 for each confed.) looked pretty good. I used those rankings outright despite the fact that there is grounds for arguement here and there.

The rating assigned is the "suggested Best Player" rating... it is also used as the team's chemistry.

When you look at the ability to rank the players 99-1 I started at 99 and worked down from there.

From 99-80 each rating is used once.
From 79-60 each was used twice
From 59-40 each used thrice
From 39-20 four times
From 20-1 five times (in theory). But you run out of teams. and any new entrants I placed based on recent results (Guadeloupe 38, Martinique 38, Montserrat somewhere in the thirties).

So origionally that's all there was to the rankings. But what happens is you get players like Adebayour in one of the best club leagues and teams in the world getting a rating in the 60's. This is what brought about the change to the LEAGUE BASED rating system.

In the League Based system Leagues were each given a rating as well.

FOR FOREIGN PLAYERS each league rating defines their attributes rather than their national team. Based on confederation, the league ratings were determined in different ways.

For UEFA the UEFA Coefficient for Club Leagues (normally used to determine who gets what spots in the Champions League, for example) was used to rank them 1-53 with Montenegro plugged in. This one I'm pretty happy with but I think a few changes need to be made and the whole table reattributed top to bottom to raise the attributes just a bit.

For AFC the Confederation divided their members into three groups prior to the AFC Challenge Cup. They used this to determine which teams would be taken place in this tournament. I used it loosely before, I want to adhere to that list strictly when we reattribute. View it HERE

They are listed as:
Developed, Developing and Emerging nations.

I like the OFC ratings. They are basically equal to the origional ratings, the OFC doesn't throw up too many surprises so we can leave that one alone. (New Zealand's foreign players need reattributed).

CONMEBOL makes sense in terms of rating Argentina and Brazil very high but the rest of the table probably needs another look.

CONCACAF has Mexico rated very high (in the 90's) because I do feel the league is quite strong especially the Mexican Internationals.

Africa is confusing as hell and I'll probably need help there. South Africa and Egypt probably need a good rating but beyond that... ~Shrug~

So you see where I'm at. I got the ratings all worked out but It's one guys oppionon on the entire world and a second or third oppinion in CONCACAF, CONMEBOL and CAF would be very helpful. I may isolate the top 5 leagues in CONCACAF and CAF and rate the rest equal to their normal "suggested best player" rating.

CONMEBOL should probably be about the same. rerate the top 2 then the rest equal to best player rating

DOMESTIC PLAYERS are always rated based on the "Suggested best player"
rating. however you can at your descretion reattribute one player to any rating you feel is fair. but it is limited to one player unless we all decide multiple are needed. If a domestic league is much better than the "Suggested Best Player" rating you can if you decide it is needed, rate the DOMESTIC internationals up to 10 ratings higher than the "Suggested Best Player" rating.

The "Old Guys Playing Down" is used to try to identify older players who return home, or like beckham, just move to a weaker league.

more later... US kicked off.

 

[Metfanant]

issue number 1....

when cloning players...is there any way to make sure that specific faces are also transfered??....i used dB master to create all the players....copying the original players under the "players" tab and then pasting new players and changing the id number....i set all the asset numbers to the regular guys but the faces did not transfer over...

 

[mrliioadin]

Cloned players in CM07 retain their specific face textures and head models... In DB master I doubt you can do this easily.

 

[Metfanant]

Cloned players in CM07 retain their specific face textures and head models... In DB master I doubt you can do this easily.

thats what im finding....dB master makes it CRAZY easy to clone players...but then you have to go load the O file for their head model...then load the textures for each player...

edit: ok....i figured out how im going to make it work...

because I am trying to keep things uniform with id #'s etc...im going to create the players in dB master....then patch them with CM.....this will take a couple mins more per team...but as far as i can tell if i use a patch to create the players I cannot choose the ID# given to the new players...


im going to test it on Brazil* in a little while...maybe when im done watching the USA game...

 

[mrliioadin]

I wouldn't worry to much about being in control of the player ID's ... CM07 obviously has the replace, or create options. If you tell it to create a player, it will identify an available player ID for each person's specific database.

Hate to flog a dead horse but besides having to reinsert player names, and having to clone players one by one, CM07 seems to be the quickest way to get the job done.

But of course the end result is most important. If you have another way to get there, w/e.

One of the other things i've been considering doing was:

Well, you'll notice that African players are a bit "Faster" than other teams at their ability level. Depending upon which pack they were released in (and they were arranged in terms of strength), they had their "Speed" and "Accelleration" (Sp?) raised a bit. I Believe one of the biggest reason that African Teams can come into a world cup and compete in almost every case is because from top to bottom the continent is just fast. So I tried to incorporate that in (and yes I did miss a team or two here and there, that need updates).

I was considering coming up with a different "Strength" for different regions in the world since there are obviously trends between different nations. For evidence of this, notice the way friendlies leading up to the world cup are scheduled. Qualified nations try to play friendlies against "Similar" non participants.

I haven't worked it out entirely and I'm not entirely sure it can be worked out for every region to be unique, but I thought I would at least throw it out there and see what people thought.

Here are the regions I had in mind:

North America (basically USA and Canada)
Central America (Mexico included)
Caribbean
South America (as a whole)
Central Europe and former Yougoslavian areas
Scandinavia
Rest of Europe
Former USSR areas
Middle East
Rest of Asia (east, south east, asian islands)
OFC

I think that's all of them.

I know if we do this I would want to see "Aggression" raise in all of Central America, that's the style, we'll whack the hell out of you and hope the ref doesn't call it.

I had considered doing something like "Passing" for much of Europe. They do seem to connect passes a bit better than the rest of the world (in a pound for pound relative sense)

Possibly something like Creativity for the South American teams but I'm not too sure there.

Not too worried about the OFC. Maybe something like Leadership or Composure.

For North America... Probably stamina. That's the U.S. strength at least I think we could describe the Canadians in the same way.

I dunno I like the idea, and it would take some thinking and tweaking but I just wanna know what you guys think?

 

[donovanfan3456]

issue number 1....

when cloning players...is there any way to make sure that specific faces are also transfered??....i used dB master to create all the players....copying the original players under the "players" tab and then pasting new players and changing the id number....i set all the asset numbers to the regular guys but the faces did not transfer over...

This is a bit complicated, you have to export using file master each part of the face files in the zdata for each player you duplicate and then change the playerid within the file name to the new playerid, then reimport into the zdata.

Or with creation master it's a little easier as mrloading states above

 

[mrliioadin]

mrloading

Sweet a new name!!! :funny:

I'm gonna post the values I was using for the leagues here soon. You guys be willing to offer some insight to possibly rework them a bit? Like I said the UEFA coefficient seems to be working great for Europe but I do want to raise the Swedish league a bit.

I was noticing that in a ton of cases I would go to make a foreign player and based on the tables his new rating would be in the same range as his national team anyway. I'de say a 6th of the foreign players worked out this way. This told me that the ratings were working quite well. The swedish league on the other hand is rated low, players attributes were often dropped to make everything work right and I just didn't find it to be a fair representation.