Pro Evo is not actually all that

[LilPlayaJosh]

actually when I play with Londond(Arsenal) I could score the same way with Henry evrytime I scored.

 

[twisted karma]

Originally posted by LilPlayaJosh
I just cant play a game that has fake players and fake teams, etc... I mean why cant Winning Eleven or PES get FIFA, team, and player license.

You've destroyed any credibility you may have had by admitting this. You are more of a celebrity lover than a football lover.
Plus, what level were you playing on when you kept scoring the same goal with Henry? I’ll wager it was 1 or 2*. And if not, then well done, you’ve discovered a flaw. No one has claimed the game is flawless, just that it’s the best there is

 

[AcillateM]

well spoken

 

[niceman]

Let me laugh. Ur free to buy fifa but PES is the game and it has won many fans which probably makes EA cry - lovely

 

[toomerk]

Originally posted by twisted karma

As I've heard someone put it, PES games are for those who don't just love a club and the celebrity that goes with it, but actually love the game of football itself. These people understand the mechanics of the game better, and for them all the player names correct is a very good bonus, but far less important than the game actually doing what it says on the tin - playing football

Well said

 

[Han]

Originally posted by ngcoolman
Gameplay wise, PES series used to beat fifa series comfortably. But it isn't the case this time. In my opinion, PES overall is still slightly better thanks to the fluent and responsive control. I love the header and shooting system PES more than FIFA's one. The ball physics of shooting in PES is more real than fifa one (just look at the goals!). But does it mean PES gameplay beat FIFA's by every means? Certainly not for me, FIFA 2004 does have some innovative controls which PES is lacking. Being able to control the power and direction of through pass is one of those,

No... no... sorry but you indeed missed some controls
No innovative controls? What about the 1-2? Not beeing able to direct the through pass? Somebody rightly wrote earlier that you can only learn that by playing more... Using the triangle through-pass goes easily wrong if there is no good idea behind it. I often use it when central about 5 virtual meters outside the penalty-area and 'stab' the ball between two defenders diagonal towards an player who runs inside from the wing towards the area.....
Apart from that, you have the manual through pass using the right analog stick (the right analog stick should be set correctly in the demo). Using this you can place the ball all over the place!

....being able to call player to run is another one which I think PES should have(or may be just because I don't find how to do it in PES, if so please tell me), for so many times in PES, i am so annoyed that my teammates controlled by computer just standing and doesn't run in free space (and this is one of the reason y i like cooperating with friends on PES more than playing on my own because they know how to run!).

You can make runs in many ways!
1. Setting attacking attitudes in the formation setup:
You use arrows (in TWO directions if you want!) to tell players in what way they should run and in another screen you can tell how much players should run ( low, medium or high)
2. Team-Manual attitude using L2+R1 (more attacking) or L2+R2 (less attcking). There are 5 attacking levels.

3. Pay attention to the players attributes. The highher the attack-attribute, the better the player makes runs

.... with all these things in mind I must smile about players who judge the game which has so many in-depht features....

 

[ngcoolman]

Originally posted by Han

No... no... sorry but you indeed missed some controls
No innovative controls? What about the 1-2? Not beeing able to direct the through pass? Somebody rightly wrote earlier that you can only learn that by playing more... Using the triangle through-pass goes easily wrong if there is no good idea behind it. I often use it when central about 5 virtual meters outside the penalty-area and 'stab' the ball between two defenders diagonal towards an player who runs inside from the wing towards the area.....
Apart from that, you have the manual through pass using the right analog stick (the right analog stick should be set correctly in the demo). Using this you can place the ball all over the place!
[/b]
Note that, I am saying power and direction, "and" means both are true in logic, what I want to say FIFA 2004 through pass system with power could possibly enable more possibilities than PES one and it is more difficult to master the skill in my opinion.


You can make runs in many ways!
1. Setting attacking attitudes in the formation setup:
You use arrows (in TWO directions if you want!) to tell players in what way they should run and in another screen you can tell how much players should run ( low, medium or high)
2. Team-Manual attitude using L2+R1 (more attacking) or L2+R2 (less attcking). There are 5 attacking levels.

3. Pay attention to the players attributes. The highher the attack-attribute, the better the player makes runs

.... with all these things in mind I must smile about players who judge the game which has so many in-depht features....


I know that too. May be I didn't clearly clarify what I mean. I mean calling a particular player to run. You know the excitement of calling a player to run and pass a 40 yards Gerrard style long ball to him and then score? This is the first time I am thrilled to score at any FIFA series, I got similar excitement in PES when I score a pretty bicycle kick or volley. Can you argue that you can do exactly that precise movement in PES? In PES to pass such a ball need to have a bit of luck.

I want to reiterate that, I still think PES 3 still has better gameplay. But my point is simply that the control system of PES hasn't changed much sinch the first winning eleven in PS (or even some earlier titles in SNES which I can't remember the name), but for FIFA series, EA is actually spending effort on the system. And it ends up at some idea that I would like them to appear on PES series. I have played most of the FIFA and PES series (and the winning eleven series in Japanese as well). For this year instalments of the 2 games, I want to admire the effort of EA team to improve the gameplay so much while Konami has also done a great job of adjusting the already very good soccer game.

PES fans always say that you need to spend more time in order to know how great the game is. And so as FIFA2004, don't judge the game because the controls of FIFA 2004 doesn't do exactly the same as PES.

And finally, I hate people saying only people who prefer PES know what football is and FIFA is just arcade style. I think it is an insult to football fans who love either game or those who like both. PES is more fun to play for sure, but neither game resamble the real football. In my opinion, PES is more real in shooting, but its dribbling still looks strange to me (eg, you can easily do a right angle running path in PES which real players hardly do such a precise turn when dribbling at high speed). FIFA is better in this case which has a Giggs dribbling approach (i.e. still going forward while changing direction). By the way, we should always understand they are just games. Games suppose to be fun. How to balance the gameplay and the simulation is the most important factor. I don't think it will be fun anymore if the football players in the game mispass or misshoot or miscontrol all the time as in the real world. I think the Japaneses coders are the expert of doing this kind of balance which end up with the great titles like PES, NBA 2K..etc. EA is now catching up and I hope this will invoke a competition between the 2 companies which will lead to the best soccer game we long hoped for.

 

[ngcoolman]

And one last thing:

If I only can buy a football game, I will buy PES 3.

If I can only buy a football management game, I will buy CM03/04.

But if I want both, I will buy FIFA2004 + TCM2004 as I would like to play on the team I build.

 

[Han]

Originally posted by ngcoolman


Note that, I am saying power and direction, "and" means both are true in logic, what I want to say FIFA 2004 through pass system with power could possibly enable more possibilities than PES one and it is more difficult to master the skill in my opinion.

I know what you are saying, but I still think that with the right analog stick you are able to put the ball everywhere, so that looks pretty complete to me. The nice thing about it is that you need to practice it to perform well, just like in real football

I know that too. May be I didn't clearly clarify what I mean. I mean calling a particular player to run. You know the excitement of calling a player to run and pass a 40 yards Gerrard style long ball to him and then score? This is the first time I am thrilled to score at any FIFA series, I got similar excitement in PES when I score a pretty bicycle kick or volley. Can you argue that you can do exactly that precise movement in PES? In PES to pass such a ball need to have a bit of luck.

I admit FIFA has made a lot of improvement and they made a nice system for this but is real football always so precise?
You say in PES you need some luck, but as you know as player of similar Konami-titles they REALLY use the players attributes! In other words, a player with a low passing attribute passes less precise! So that's no luck but reality

And finally, I hate people saying only people who prefer PES know what football is and FIFA is just arcade style. I think it is an insult to football fans who love either game or those who like both.

I say that different: PES players are hardcore football fans and FIFA players just like the arcadish type game (That EA official described the FIFA-fans exactly the same so I don't see what's wrong about it).
That does not mean FIFA fans don't know about football...

 

[pokwang]

Originally posted by ngcoolman
Note that, I am saying power and direction, "and" means both are true in logic, what I want to say FIFA 2004 through pass system with power could possibly enable more possibilities than PES one and it is more difficult to master the skill in my opinion.

I dont see why FIFA is better at that PES is basically the same you have manual pass with the right analog yes also with power and direction. What's the difference? Just get used to both.

I know that too. May be I didn't clearly clarify what I mean. I mean calling a particular player to run. You know the excitement of calling a player to run and pass a 40 yards Gerrard style long ball to him and then score? This is the first time I am thrilled to score at any FIFA series, I got similar excitement in PES when I score a pretty bicycle kick or volley. Can you argue that you can do exactly that precise movement in PES? In PES to pass such a ball need to have a bit of luck.

Actually the AI in PES is quite smart, they make runs into space and most of the time you dont have to tell them to. Beside there's already thar arrow thing and level of attacking. Let say in FIFA you tell the player when to run, but how do you tell them where to run to?

I want to reiterate that, I still think PES 3 still has better gameplay. But my point is simply that the control system of PES hasn't changed much sinch the first winning eleven in PS (or even some earlier titles in SNES which I can't remember the name), but for FIFA series, EA is actually spending effort on the system. And it ends up at some idea that I would like them to appear on PES series. I have played most of the FIFA and PES series (and the winning eleven series in Japanese as well). For this year instalments of the 2 games, I want to admire the effort of EA team to improve the gameplay so much while Konami has also done a great job of adjusting the already very good soccer game.

Why fix if it aint broken? The control system in PES is the most intiutive(sp?) I've ever seen, it would be wise for other companies to copy it.

And finally, I hate people saying only people who prefer PES know what football is and FIFA is just arcade style. I think it is an insult to football fans who love either game or those who like both. PES is more fun to play for sure, but neither game resamble the real football. In my opinion, PES is more real in shooting, but its dribbling still looks strange to me (eg, you can easily do a right angle running path in PES which real players hardly do such a precise turn when dribbling at high speed). FIFA is better in this case which has a Giggs dribbling approach (i.e. still going forward while changing direction). By the way, we should always understand they are just games. Games suppose to be fun. How to balance the gameplay and the simulation is the most important factor. I don't think it will be fun anymore if the football players in the game mispass or misshoot or miscontrol all the time as in the real world. I think the Japaneses coders are the expert of doing this kind of balance which end up with the great titles like PES, NBA 2K..etc. EA is now catching up and I hope this will invoke a competition between the 2 companies which will lead to the best soccer game we long hoped for.

I disagree. Dribbling in PES is the most natural and real-like I've seen compared to other games. I dont think you can turn right angle when dashing in PES, and even then the rate and responce of the turn would depend on the skill of the player. Maybe you should practice some more and try to watch CPU vs. CPU match to see the dribbling possibilities in the game.

 

[ngcoolman]

Originally posted by pokwang
Actually the AI in PES is quite smart, they make runs into space and most of the time you dont have to tell them to. Beside there's already thar arrow thing and level of attacking. Let say in FIFA you tell the player when to run, but how do you tell them where to run to?

By type the call player button once more time to change running direction. PES AI is smart, and FIFA 2004, which I am surprised, is also very smart. I found that the team tactics in FIFA 2004 matters more than PES. In PES, whatever team I played against, I can use similar strategy to play against them, but in FIFA 2004 demo, I found that it is completely different story. I need to completely use different approches to the game depends on whether I am using AC Milan or Juventus. The defence and attack attribute are just so different between two teams. The truth is that you can be master when using Juventus and then become completely crap when using AC Milan. And it may even the case(which I guess) that even you can use Juventus to beat AC Milan consistantly, you may still struggling to score against Inter. In PES, though team tactics matters a lot, at least if I master England, I won't do too bad on using Brazil.

Why fix if it aint broken? The control system in PES is the most intiutive(sp?) I've ever seen, it would be wise for other companies to copy it.

I agree it is very intuitive comparing to FIFA, you can pretty much play the game by just using the basic buttons and get use combinations to do the tricks. FIFA controls kind of complicated unless you master it. But they are improving though. For this, as I said, Japanese coders are excellent to make intuitive gameplay and well appreciated their effort. But good things worth copying as you said, FIFA freekick and corner kick system truelly have some advantages. In freekick, you can control the target and curve, the system which is obviously borrowed from golf and I see this is kind of better than the PES. And for corner, you need to control the player in order to westle with opponent to get the position is amazing. For so many times, I try to stop the opponent striker and he suddenly turn around and get into the good position to score, this just looks so real comparing to PES! Don't you think it will be nice if PES got these features too.

I disagree. Dribbling in PES is the most natural and real-like I've seen compared to other games. I dont think you can turn right angle when dashing in PES, and even then the rate and responce of the turn would depend on the skill of the player. Maybe you should practice some more and try to watch CPU vs. CPU match to see the dribbling possibilities in the game.

I guess it just taste, honestly I think FIFA is more real in dribbling (though I dribble better in PES which I can use this right angle method to use ashley cole dribble 60 yards and get the cross into the box). Yeah, you cannot turn sharp when using dash, but you can predict when dash power finish and then sharp turn and then dash again to dribble through the defence, which I think it's unreal. But that's just my opinion.