Proof Positive

[kingpug]

How the feck was WE8:I a major improvement over PES4?? I think WE8:I is better due to the fact I can actualy do good shots and don't stumble 60 times running up the wing, but I hardly call this major improvements.

So basicaly, they bring out PES4 were your players stumble like paper cut-outs, they then bring out WE8:I some months later and tweak it so they are now cardboard cut-outs, and this is ok because you class it as a major improvement?

And Nuno, get the finger out and wake up, we don't care if there are a ton of other good PS2 games we can play instead of the PES/WE series, in case you have forgotten, this is a PES/WE forum, so we obviously ain't interested in other games.

How can anyone even say PES5 is good? I mean the CPU does random passes for you sometimes, the auto-sidestep is f*cking annoying and the players take 5 minutes to do a 360 degree turn, instead of coming here and saying the game is brilliant, get off your arse and go and actualy watch a football match for once, because every match I have seen is NOTHING like PES5. Does it take henry ages to turn around? do you see EVERY player doing the sidestep when they receive the ball? I hardly think so.

People just can't admit the game ain't perfect, yes some aspects are good, but the bad aspects take any fun the game had away.

And for Konami's number one fan aka Nuno, we ain't only moaning about the crowds, it's the fact one minute they took it out because the PS2 couldn't handle them, only for them to put them back in the next minute and wait 6 months before bringing the exact same game out under a new name, use your head instead of your tongue for once.

 

[deKerf]

Kingpug: Well I never intended to say that it was a major improvement, my point was simply that if you have to choose between the two then I think most people are going to go with WE8:I. So then the question is why didn't they patch up PES4 with the improvements they made in WE8:I? My guess is that the answer is either it will make Konami more money or perhaps they are incompetent in this matter and/or have little to no communication between their regional branches. Either way it's not acceptable and we need to sounding off about it.

 

[Nuno]

How the feck was WE8:I a major improvement over PES4?? I think WE8:I is better due to the fact I can actualy do good shots and don't stumble 60 times running up the wing, but I hardly call this major improvements.

So basicaly, they bring out PES4 were your players stumble like paper cut-outs, they then bring out WE8:I some months later and tweak it so they are now cardboard cut-outs, and this is ok because you class it as a major improvement?

And Nuno, get the finger out and wake up, we don't care if there are a ton of other good PS2 games we can play instead of the PES/WE series, in case you have forgotten, this is a PES/WE forum, so we obviously ain't interested in other games.

How can anyone even say PES5 is good? I mean the CPU does random passes for you sometimes, the auto-sidestep is f*cking annoying and the players take 5 minutes to do a 360 degree turn, instead of coming here and saying the game is brilliant, get off your arse and go and actualy watch a football match for once, because every match I have seen is NOTHING like PES5. Does it take henry ages to turn around? do you see EVERY player doing the sidestep when they receive the ball? I hardly think so.

People just can't admit the game ain't perfect, yes some aspects are good, but the bad aspects take any fun the game had away.

And for Konami's number one fan aka Nuno, we ain't only moaning about the crowds, it's the fact one minute they took it out because the PS2 couldn't handle them, only for them to put them back in the next minute and wait 6 months before bringing the exact same game out under a new name, use your head instead of your tongue for once.

You totally missed the point about what I was saying. Knowing you I'm not surprised. To me it's amazing that WE/PES is the only game you play and yet you hate it with a passion. To each his own I guess.

And also, I don't think it's wise for you to try and insult me by saying "get the finger out"....What ever the heck that means. Respect me and other forum members if you want to stick around.

 

[j4y3m]

WE9:International coming out in the Spring for North America. Spring??? To put PES5 in a different box and give it a new title screen? It takes them 6 months!

http://www.konami.com/gs/gameinfo.php?id=164

Unbelievable. Yet they can release a whole new version for Japan in 8 weeks.

I'm not sure but I think in America the MLS starts in spring right? Then it makes marketing sense?

 

[TristanAbbott7]

I'm not sure but I think in America the MLS starts in spring right? Then it makes marketing sense?

In the US, there are 22.5 million under-18s registered in soccer leagues all over the country. This normally consists of 1-3 practices a week and two seasons of play a year plus maybe an indoor season. Ten years ago, that figure was only approx. 8 million and the overall coaching level was pretty dire. Since 1995, over 25,000 licensed coaches (mostly from Europe) have come to the US to help coach at the youth level. Also, the licensing program based upon the UEFA coaching licenses has spread and more knowledge of the game itself is filtering down to the grass roots level.

So, basically all the MLS represents, at the moment and for the near future, is a development league, filled with players who are mostly nowhere near as good technically as some of the kids in their middle-teens aprroaching college. It will take the MLS another 10 years before any kind of true representation of the talent level will show. So, for the moment, the league is boring and filled with 2nd or 3rd rate players who, in ten years, wouldn't even make a MLS reserve squad.

The MLS has very little marketing power here in the US with regards to the sport. The majority of fans watch cable to see English and Spanish soccer the most popular. The MLS has no bearing on how well Winning Eleven sells, especially given there are no MLS teams in it.

There are very few US soccer fans who would want the MLS in the game unless it was an additional league. Certainly nobody would want it replacing any of the existing leagues in the game.

Konami release WE in the Spring in the US because it's their last priority on the list. Given the number of kids who play soccer here, and the average wealth of the society, added to the size of the vide game market, this is totally dumb. Everybody I know who plays soccer (and I know a lot because I'm a full time coach and director of a youth soccer club with over 50 teams - www.dfwtornados.org), has a soccer title either for their PC or console. For the most part it's FIFA because they haven't heard of Winning Eleven. Everybody I know who has played Winning Eelven over the last few years has ditched FIFA and switched to Winning Eleven but Konami ignore the market with advertising and blindly assume from x number of miles away, that only about 500 people here have any interest in the sport.

There is a HUGE market for the game here if Konami would bother with it but they have no interest. By Spring, the kids are looking forward to the next FIFA, not waiting for a title that came out 6 months previously elsewhere in the world with rosters close to a year old by then.

I actually met the guy who brokered the deal between FIFAPro representatives and EA Sports for the FIFA series a while back. He did a presentation to the kids in our club. He now works in the UK for a company called Inspire Sport who arrange sporting tours around the world for teams in the US and Europe. The license cost EA Sports 75 million pounds!!! He said it's NOT exclusive but the cost of acquiring the licenses is high. Konami never contacted them in the time he worked for the legal side there and he worked there for just over five years.

The lack of licensing is about money and you have to ask whether Konami would make back that kind of money to make it a worthwhile purchase. They are going about it by trying to acquire the licenses seperately which if you were going to buy as many as FIFA as, would cost you more money overall. But, Konami just seem to want the top leagues so overall it would cost far less but they don't want to pay the 10-15 million for the rights to the English Premier League for one so the series is stuck in a rut with licensing.

Anyway, just figured I'd be a little informative for anybody who gives a crap rather than the guessing that normally goes on regarding this topic.

 

[TristanAbbott7]

Oh, and this year, Konami didn't even put the proper USA squad names in the game. They were there last year but this year they didn't bother. That'll be a great way to market the game, don't even have proper player names for the national team in the country you're trying to sell it!!!

 

[biker_jim_uk]

go on then what were the sales of WE8I in the US last year, compared to WE8 in Japan?

 

[kingpug]

I don't even play PES/WE anymore, which doesn't mean I can't say the game sucks, does it?

I like how you just avoided everything I said though, did you watch a football game and compare it to PES5 yet? because I watched Liverpool vs Wigan first half, and if Crouch can turn that quick in real life, surely someone with 99 agility can turn quick too no?

And tell me, when was the last time you seen defenders keep up with players like Henry? everytime I see Henry play, he easily outruns any defender along with mostly every other player, yet on PES5 this is the complete opposite?

Like I said, get the finger out, and get your tongue out konami's arse, admit the game ain't real and get on with whatever life you have.

 

[Criss]

Both are money hungry companies. Well wth, most companies are since companies main purpose are to earn money. doh.

But there are others there do really care about their consumer alongside earning money though I'm not sure of any to name of. :chew:

Well I think SI Games are one of these companies.They realy listen to their fans and they make the database troughout fans.That's why they have such a good database unlike Konami.They listen to the fans and the game gets better and better every year and they release every year at least two update patches a year.They had even 5 with Championship Manager 03-04 and 4 with Championship Manager 02-03 and 3 with FM 05.And their patches contain even database updates for the winter seaons transfers.

And if someone comes and says that they realease these patches because their game is too crapy then they are mad :fool:
So here is a positive example.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterM
i can already see the future.
Konami the money hungry company that screws their customers each year.
Ea the company that actually listens and are gratefull for their loyal community.

And i realy think this might be a near future if Konami won't wake up.This year EA made a promising step forward and if they continue it might be something good cause i think they can do both:money hungry and listen to their fans

 

[Swerve]

This unfortunately is an unfair comparison. Comparing the sales in one country where the game is heavily marketed, has a game devoted exclusively to the country's league and already has an established fan base to the sales in one where none of this is true isn't really a valid argument. But yes, the sales in Japan are exceedingly greater.

 

[biker_jim_uk]

It is an unfair comparison, but Konami are Japanese and I imagine that is the largest part of their income.
I'm just pleased they bother converting PES to PC now.
No-on is forcing people to buy all the versions, remember most aren't officially released outside Japan.

 

[deftonesmx17]

It's a practice that SOME companies have and they get rightly attacked on the appropriate forums for it.

If you look at your F*** Electronic Arts signature, it says "F*** Their Promises" and "F*** Their Support" yet I don't feel that Konami has given us any more truth with regards to either promises or support.

If you look at the European PES5 Konami website in their "advertisement" for the game, it specifically says "new leagues" but there were no new leagues this year at all. It says the same on the link that I gave earlier in the post for WE9:International, "new leagues", yet there are no new leagues from last years version. A few additional teams but no new leagues!!!

As for support. It's obvious they have the crowd bug problem solved now (in WE9:JL) so why can't they at least release a fix for the PC version of the game. Is it acceptable to have that same bug in WE9:I which is still 4 months from release?

I basically give Konami this crap and stir it because this community has gone too soft on them. People who have worked for big companies (not that there's many of those on this particular forum which seems to have been invaded by 14 year old over the last 6 months!) will tell you that they listen to general vibes in the community about their product and some may do specific research, including forums, to get feedback. If me and a few other people on this forum never opened our mouths, Konami would only ever think the game is 100% perfect every year. I'm happy to be a sounding bell if it gives at least a small chance it might make some change. 14 year old fanboys using too many z's and poor English replying "oh, you suck at the game" or "this game rockz - it's perfect" will never implement any change in the series.

I want the game to be better but I know it won't be if everybody has their noses so far up Konami's ass that they think they can smell paradise.

Is every game you play perfect? I doubt it. I can think of very few masterpieces in my life, how about you? Did you talk about certain things in last years game that bugged you? Why yes you did. I also note that many changes are because of the things people complained about in PES4/WEI8. Many people talked about how you could just run everyone over and there were almost no fouls. So, what did the company do? They made more fouls. People also talked about the godlike through pass. Its not so godlike this year is it? I also remmeber hearing nothing but how easy PES4/WEI8 was on six stars. Just about every person said this. Look at six stars now, not very easy is it? AI will never be smarter than a human. Grasp that and then you will understand that the only way for the AI to be very hard at six satrs, was for them to cheat. Do you play any other games? Please don't try and act like other games don't cheat.

The crowd problem, you really need to let that one go. Let me explain something to you. The PS2 works in a way where it is media streamed. The code has to be almost perfect. The code was not optimized somewhere done the line, hence the crowd. This is not an easy fix in streamlined code.

About my sig and EA. That represents how I feel of the whole company. Do you feel the way you do about all of Konami? If not then do not compare it to the way I feel of EA. I don't find any games by EA as good games. Yes, none. I will even explain this.
Madden - Even in the 16-bit days I could not stand this game. I would play the SEGA Sports Joe Montana footballs as I felt they were a much better game. On the N64 I would play QB club as I still felt madden had something missing. Up until last year I was all about the 2K's. EA knew someone was making a better game and thus gained exclusive licenses. NASCAR by EA is laughable compared to the old Papyrus NASCAR Racing games. Another example of exclusive licenses so they are number one. But this stems far past their sports division. I feel the Burnout series went down the drain when EA bought Criterion. Why? The game is on the verge of being too easy. Burnout Revenge followed that trend by being even easier than Takedown was. That doesnt present a new challenge, that takes the challenge away. Something EA does with all of its games. EA lacks innovation big time. The only innovative thing I have seen in the past 5-10 years is the fight night games control scheme.

Just to appease you, yes Konami makes mistakes also. Do I think PES5 is perfect? No, far from it, but it is still the best footie game I have ever played. Take a look at the MGS series. Do you like the camera angle? I bet you did, but not anymore. I could not even finish MGS3, which is by far the best MGS because of the camera angle.

Do I think EA made a wonderful stride this year with FIFA? Yes, I admit that EA finally made a change for the better. Do I think FIFA 06 is a good game? Yes, for the average gamer.

The problem however is that these threads are getting out of hand. Konami will not listen to people if they act like this. You talk about the people who make dumb comments such as oh, you suck at the game or this game rockz - it's perfect. But what about you making comments such as this game is crap and I will not touch it ever again. Then a few days later talking about how you like the game and have become friends with it. Then you fly back to PES5 sucks and Screw Konami. Why would they listen to someone who is constantly contradicting themself and saying screw them? Yes, I agreee that the people who think the game is flawless need a reality check. But at the same time I don't think the people like you who expect the game to be perfect are any different from them.

 

[canucklehead79]

I also remmeber hearing nothing but how easy PES4/WEI8 was on six stars. Just about every person said this. Look at six stars now, not very easy is it?

I'm afraid I must disagree with you here... For me PES5 is far easier than WEI8 on 6 stars. The AI has taken a giant step backwards this year, the CPU cannot score to save its life.

 

[deftonesmx17]

I'm afraid I must disagree with you here... For me PES5 is far easier than WEI8 on 6 stars. The AI has taken a giant step backwards this year, the CPU cannot score to save its life.

Really, then explain all of the people talking about the CPU cheating when it scores. You know, how the cursor will auto change even on manual so the CPU can run right past the defender you were controlling and score.



EDIT: I thought they couldnt socre to save their life
http://rapidshare.de/files/8622990/pes5.avi.html
File is heavily compressed XVID for small size

 

[Maichal1616]

Really, then explain all of the people talking about the CPU cheating when it scores. You know, how the cursor will auto change even on manual so the CPU can run right past the defender you were controlling and score.

Well, these are basically all they score. That is the problem. But it's definitely a lot harder to score, that's why the game's so frustrating. Not because the CPU plays too good. It's just too good at bunkering. And all the cheats are far too blatant.

The game has set very high standards with it's previous versions, but the evolution part seems to be slowing down atm. There are a lot of things that need to be improved and pointing them out shouldn't be considered as bashing the game. There are different ways to express oneselves, some are aggressive, some are not, but it's important that we would be heard. We all want the game to become better don't we?

 

[canucklehead79]

Really, then explain all of the people talking about the CPU cheating when it scores. You know, how the cursor will auto change even on manual so the CPU can run right past the defender you were controlling and score.

Well the CPU can't score against me, and I play with a very attack-minded formation. I just don't concede goals, I have about 60-65% posession every game and it's becoming annoying. I almost wish the CPU would cheat MORE at least than I would lose once in while.

Oh something else I should mention is I SUCK... Everytime I play online I lose, I'm pretty sure most people on this forum are better than me, so I don't see how anyone can find this game too hard.

edit: actually I agree with just about everything you said in your post, PES5 still is the best football/soccer sim to date.

 

[deftonesmx17]

Oh something else I should mention is I SUCK... Everytime I play online I lose, I'm pretty sure most people on this forum are better than me, so I don't see how anyone can find this game too hard.

I don't think its too hard, but harder than PES4 was due to the CPU cheating. Maybe I should have made that a bit more clear

 

[chitchat]

Too much complain. Pls kindly create an OFFICIAL whining/complain thread and everyone who wish to complain to vent their frustration in it. Oh yea just a suggestion if somehow there is a KONAMI forum or where those PES5 developer go then pls head there and flood their forum with complain and it would be much useful then doing it here.

Btw maybe i sux at the game but i found that 6* is more challenging now. Play 4 season EPL using CHELSEA never ended first before. So now still stuck at EPL and never havent play SERIE A or LA LIGA if WE8I long time finish those league already hehe =)

 

[Shards]

On a side note, i just 'got' WE8:I with the Pheonix patch. s*it hot, man, s*it hot!

IP play, pretty much PES5 gameplay - if not better - and thanks to Pheonix and WOLF, damn fine graphics.

Oh and I almost forgot - you f*ckin' guys need a life outside soccer video games.

 

[theCRO]

chiil pill time Tristan..geez, just practice more man !!!!! You're obviously crap at this game!
































nah...just kiddin man, I know what you mean and as a veteran gamer, forumer etc. I agree.