this is really needed for WE 7... konami must do it

[lucasetor]

Hahahahahahahahahaaa, u kill me

 

[sabonis]

Originally posted by akvelocity365
I think the idea is interesting. I do not think it's needed though. Shooting accuracy covers and refers to the long range shots. Just as a note though, even if his accuracy was a lot lower, if a player has the knack for being at the right place at the right time, he can slot a lot of close range goals just like "RVD" does now I guess. (sorry don't watch much EPL). That ability to be in the right place at the right time is covered by the special abilities as well as his other abilities. You gotta have speed, vision, strength, ball control, positioning and etc. Oh yeah, and some good chemistry between your team mates. If you start rating his shots between long and short, then I feel that you have to put in a medium shot, a medium short, a medium long, etc,etc. Thats too black and white just long and short. I think people have a certain accuracy whether it be from long distance or short, but what determines whether they can make specific shots are dependant upon their technique, shot power, balance, their offensive mindedness (new word i think!) and even general ball control. So all in all, I feel that the ratings system is perfect since the qualities of the players are affected on how the ratings are co-dependant of each other. Just another opinion to throw into the mix.
Cheers.

I think you are exagerating the situation, there is no need for medium range shot stats, because in soccer its either shooting or finishing, any where behind the penalty kick spot should be denoted as shot, anywhere closer should be finishing...

 

[akvelocity365]

Originally posted by sabonis
I think you are exagerating the situation, there is no need for medium range shot stats, because in soccer its either shooting or finishing, any where behind the penalty kick spot should be denoted as shot, anywhere closer should be finishing...

Actually I am not exaggerating! As soon as you start to denote accuracy to distance, then you have to be more specific. This is actually a true statement. If you keep it short and long: your player is making a run, decides not to take the shot, but once they take one step into the PK area from anywhere in there, they have suddenely improved on their accuracy to that specific "short shot" rating! nah, I can't find that realistic. Also consider shooting within the PK area at the top corner towards goal to the opposite post upper corner of the goal (if that happens to be the opening), that's a pretty long shot! Not finishing. Overall, the idea is a start, but too simplified to be realistic. Hence why I said, what I said, it had nothing against ya one bit! Like I said before, the ratings scheme in WE6 is just perfect, if any improvements were to happen, I would hope they work now on some licensing, updated squads, better commentary and smoother gameplay! Other than that, the core gameplay engine is great!

 

[sabonis]

Originally posted by akvelocity365
Actually I am not exaggerating! As soon as you start to denote accuracy to distance, then you have to be more specific. This is actually a true statement. If you keep it short and long: your player is making a run, decides not to take the shot, but once they take one step into the PK area from anywhere in there, they have suddenely improved on their accuracy to that specific "short shot" rating! nah, I can't find that realistic. Also consider shooting within the PK area at the top corner towards goal to the opposite post upper corner of the goal (if that happens to be the opening), that's a pretty long shot! Not finishing. Overall, the idea is a start, but too simplified to be realistic. Hence why I said, what I said, it had nothing against ya one bit! Like I said before, the ratings scheme in WE6 is just perfect, if any improvements were to happen, I would hope they work now on some licensing, updated squads, better commentary and smoother gameplay! Other than that, the core gameplay engine is great!

I said any where behind "the penalty kick spot", not penalty area, so the shot from edge should be considered as a shot.

I think my advice is better than what WE6:FE has now. As I wrote in my first message, you can rarely see RVN or Hakan Sukur or Montella score outside the box, but with their given stats in the game, they can do that without any problem. IMO this is a really big problem for the game

 

[akvelocity365]

Originally posted by sabonis
I think my advice is better than what WE6:FE has now. As I wrote in my first message, you can rarely see RVN or Hakan Sukur or Montella score outside the box, but with their given stats in the game, they can do that without any problem. IMO this is a really big problem for the game

We can go on and on about technicalities but there is really no need since we obviously have completely different opinions.

I am assuming you are playing EXTREME, just so I can assume the most. So you are consistantly scoring goals with those players from outside the box!? That's pretty impressive! Of course this is depending if you are talking about you against the keeper situations, then I understand them side-footing the ball from just outside the box cause the keeper has a bad position. Atleast I know for Extreme, you need to be pretty dayum open to pull off an open and powerful shot since the d-fense closes down pretty well! Either way, like I had mentioned, we could go on and on since we both like to have the last word... so I will just leave it at this. Once you denote accuracy to distance, you have decided to become more specific. It's never black and white. Even in the almighty game of real life soccer!

 

[man united forever]

Re: Re: this is really needed for WE 7... konami must do it

Originally posted by MisH*The*Manc
But on the other hand he can do this. He rearly does it in the premiership because of the service he receives, but I know that if he really wanted he could spank one from distance

Long live Ruud

Mish, do you know of any other good links to Ruud's goals? I remember seeing one of his goals on a BBC newsclip back in 2000, when the first transfer had been finalised, and they showed a ripper of a shot from outside the area straight into the top corner. Scholesy would've been proud of that shot. I think it was for Holland, but I'm not sure.

 

[KingPaulV]

Re: Ironic!

Originally posted by TristanAbbott7
I can't believe we're discussing long and short range shooting attributes! It just goes to show what a higher level of expectation we have from Konami than EA.

Imagine this scene in the EA offices:

EA Guy 1: I've finished the attributes and I think I've come up with a simple method to distinguish one player from another.
EA Director: Go on.
EA Guy 1: Well, rather than all those left foot, right foot, accuracy, defending, blah blah blah things I've come up with a simple collection of attributes which are graded yes or no rather than with values.
EA Guy 2: Yeah, we felt that having a range of 1-7 for an attribute was too great. I wanted to knock it down to good, average or poor but we decided on a yes/no option.
EA Guy 1: And the good thing is we don't have all that 0-99 range with about 30 different attributes like Konami does which means our players are pretty much all similar which allows the user to make a great team out of pretty much anybody who can play any position.
EA Director: What are the new attributes for the yes/no answers?
EA Guy 1: Do you have a head?
EA Guy 2: Not that it matters because we've taken heading out altogether for FIFA 2004!!!!
Whole room: ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!
EA Guy 1: Then we have a few more questions; Do you have feet? Are you a goalkeeper? Do you change your hairsyle every month? Are you a defender? Can you shoot ok? And, well, that's it.
EA Guy 2: We worked out that we could create over 10 different types of player, assuming some of them don't have heads.
EA Director: You mean like in the World Cup 2002 demo?
EA Guy 2: Yes, exactly.
EA Director: So, what you're telling me is that Konami have almost unlimited attribute combinations whereas we have maybe 10 or more depending on whether our players have heads or play in goal.
EA Guy 1 & 2: Yes sir.
EA Director: What about David Beckham's hair?
EA Guy 2: You can download a patch every week to update it. We thought we'd do that rather than that whole gameplay improvement trash.
EA Director: Great! When do we ship?
EA Guy 1: Well, I'm off now until September but that should give us a full two weeks to write the whole program, 25 minutes in my lunch break while on the phone to my wife to test it and then we can spend the next six weeks advertising it while it sits in the warehouse ready to go.
EA Director: You guys are genius, pure genius.


Not a pretty sight to envisage!!!!

LOLOLOLOL.........Dude you rock you're too funny!!!

 

[rascricket]

...Maybe they should base a Short, Medium, and Long shot rating depending on the goals they've scored...That may sound like a lot of research, but is'nt there some sort of pro players STAT BANK? It has an official name....someone wise help me remember...If memery serves me correctly, when I first drooled over news of PES2 for Europe I thought I remember reading the players are BASED UPON THAT RATING...?? , of course, could be very wrong, but someone tell us the name of that stat bank...I know it exists....and DID they use those stats?....other than this important question , my two cents is long, med. and short

 

[MisterX_K]

sabonis is right.
shooting accuracy should be split up into close range shooting acc. and long range shooting acc.
it's a must-be in we7.
another thing is, players only shoot powerful shots (except if you lob shoot) and that's not pretty real.

i've made a thread on that a few months ago and i get back on that at this point.

in real life you often see players do softer, highly curved shots in the top corner of the goal preferrably with the inside of their dominant foot, actually there are even players who can do that with the outside of their foot as well.
you should be able to pull these type of shots out manually by e.g. pressing the R2 button or something while shooting.
it's obligatory that this shot has a special shooting animation much like the lob shot has its own animation too.
you know which animation i mean, like Del Piero shoots that way often, soft but highly curled so that the keeper stands there without any chance to react and the ball should not always go in.
only in 33 percent of the shots or something.
it should go over the bar or hit it more than score.
so it's main purpose is to be a variety in shooting. not always these straight powerful shots you know.
it should look amazing of course so that you really have your mouth open while the ball flies towards the goal.

just an idea.
cya

 

[akvelocity365]

Originally posted by MisterX_K
in real life you often see players do softer, highly curved shots in the top corner of the goal preferrably with the inside of their dominant foot, actually there are even players who can do that with the outside of their foot as well.
you should be able to pull these type of shots out manually by e.g. pressing the R2 button or something while shooting.
it's obligatory that this shot has a special shooting animation much like the lob shot has its own animation too.

so it's main purpose is to be a variety in shooting.

I definitely agree with this. There should be more variety in shots that can be executed. This would make the game a lot more real. I don't see the "all the time" powerful shots though. I have seen plenty various types, but still, with what you mentioned, the shot that you mentioned would be a great addition. We always see attempts like that in real football so... why not! I was thinking of another point though. Do you guys think the keepers need some better AI!? They seem to have bad positioning a lot of the time. Also the defensice AI... I can't quite put my finger on it just yet, but there is something that erks me.... huh? who knows.... cheers!

 

[TristanAbbott7]

Don't get it!

I don't know if some of you guys are playing a completely different game from me because in WE6:I I can hit low shots, high shots, soft shots, hard shots, medium shots, grass crawlers, in off the crossbar/posts, chips, inside of the foot, outside of the foot, toe pokes, volleys, etc. etc.

It's easy to execute different types of shot especially the curling with the inside of the foot. It all depends where your player is when they shoot, what foot they are using, how you position the directional control, how long you hold the shoot button, after-touch.

I've zero problem with the shooting. Changing the attributes or increasing the range of attributes to long, medium and shot shooting accuracy may be a good idea but I don't think it will make much difference. There are already tens of thousands of different attribute combinations you can have, I don't think we need even more but I guess it wouldn't hurt. At least we know Konami can and will do it where as FIFA is stuck woith about ten attributes on a range of 1-7!!!

 

[ALVALADE-XXI]

Re: Re: Re: this is really needed for WE 7... konami must do it

Originally posted by sabonis
man, these stats were just examples. I didn't say the players should have those values

what I meant is that there should be 2 different stats for shooting
1) close range (which consists of finishing)
2) long range (long range shooting)

I agree...and it should be a stat for forward players that doen't come out the box...like Ronaldo, Vieri,Batistuta, always play in the box or very near it!!!!!

 

[akvelocity365]

Originally posted by ALVALADE-XXI
I agree...and it should be a stat for forward players that doen't come out the box...like Ronaldo, Vieri,Batistuta, always play in the box or very near it!!!!!

The only way I see this being implemented (long:shot and short:finishing) is keeping shot accuracy as a stat, but finishing as an ability.

 

[sabonis]

Originally posted by akvelocity365
The only way I see this being implemented (long:shot and short:finishing) is keeping shot accuracy as a stat, but finishing as an ability.

no thats not possible, because do you think Ruud Van Nistelrooy's and Owen's finishings are both same ?

no way: RVN is about 97, owen is about 85-90
but they are both finishers

 

[rascricket]

Wow, I think the stats are solid...they've got it pretty worked out...So no one knows the name of the PRO PLAYERS STAT BANK?????You guysjust look over this point of mine like it doesn't exist....The stat bank has a name and I think they drew from it.....SOMEONE ANSWER THIS as it could stop the short-med-long-finishing debate....Also,no body thinks it'd be cool to have sounds on your buttons after a goal!!??!?! Maybe some of you dont remember the FIFA version that this was in.........whaen ya score the buttons make sounds, (yes, Im DIE HARD KONAMI, but have played every soccer game for nearly 20 years)...this is'nt a big deal but I think i'd be very cool.....

big up
<<ZION UNITED>>

 

[akvelocity365]

Originally posted by rascricket
Wow, I think the stats are solid...they've got it pretty worked out...So no one knows the name of the PRO PLAYERS STAT BANK?????You guysjust look over this point of mine like it doesn't exist....The stat bank has a name and I think they drew from it.....SOMEONE ANSWER THIS as it could stop the short-med-long-finishing debate...

Sorry, it may seem like I am ignoring this, but I can't comment on something I know nothing about!

To the ISSUE of shots and finishing. Why put a percentage on the obvious? The closer you get, the better CHANCE you have of shooting on goal. You guys seem to be getting statistical data mixed with personal abilities. (obviously a person misses long shots because they don't have the star qualities of being great long range strikers, which very few possess) A person shoots with a specific accuracy, regardless of distance. The factors that play into effect whether they can shoot on goal are (to name a few) technique, power, balance, offensive mindedness, ball control... the list can go on. So RVD can finish better than Owen, so basically he has a better shooting accuracy than Owen. So the ability to finish is simple, you either have it, or you don't, the shooting accuracy will cover who truely is the better finisher. I really have to stop now though. No one agrees with what I am saying obviously so I will leave with what I said and leave it at that.

cheers

 

[rascricket]

I'm almost completly confident they drew from that darn stat bank.....someone here's gotta know the scoop on that...I was just thinkin' however, that in my high expectation time for FIFA 2003, I like everyone did alot of research and its possible that it was FIFA that they used those stats....I'm only a little crazy....It does exsist,though....THX

 

[314frog]

thats a very good idea sabonis...i hope they only add to the many stats that they have but NOT del any out

 

[sabonis]

Originally posted by 314frog
thats a very good idea sabonis...i hope they only add to the many stats that they have but NOT del any out

thanks, man

 

[TristanAbbott7]

Yeah!

Originally posted by sabonis
thanks, man

It's not like Konami to delete stuff from their series. They tend to build on stuff. I wouldn't be surprised at all if they did add a bunch of new attributes. Maybe it would be worth emailing Konami with the idea as they obviously do actually listen to their market.