• This is a reminder of 3 IMPORTANT RULES:

    1- External self-promotion websites or apps are NOT allowed here, like Discord/Twitter/Patreon/etc.

    2- Do NOT post in other languages. English-only.

    3- Crack/Warez/Piracy talk is NOT allowed.

    Breaking any of the above rules will result in your messages being deleted and you will be banned upon repetition.

    Please, stop by this thread SoccerGaming Forum Rules And Guidelines and make sure you read and understand our policies.

    Thank you!

Walk the Line

Yossarian

Fan Favourite
It's sometimes difficult to know (especially concerning Folk, Blues and Country) where the line between some of the genres of music begin and end, but I think It's a stretch to call Springsteen a Country artist. Dylan, who's his hero is less of a stretch on the other hand. I mean, he's mostly recognized as a folk singer-songwritter, but folk a lot of the times can be categorized as country and Dylan has done/covered a lot of traditional Country tunes and is currently touring with Willie Nelson I believe.

They've both been featured considerably on CMT (Country Music Television) so what the **** do I know anyway, eh?

It's why the Rock 'n' Roll hall of fame is filled with Country artists who were probably considered rock and rollers in their heyday, you know? It's the biggest crossover genre of 'em all......especially in today's age. It's Pop, Pop Rock, Rock with a twang, ALT Rock with a twang....it's all over the place, man and much harder to label precisely.









Virgo said:
May I reply to you with a quote from "24 Hour Party People"

Tony Wilson: "Jazz is the last refuge of the untalented. That's why Jazz musicians enjoy themselves more than anyone listening to them does."


hurhurhurhur.......awesome quote and an even more awesome flick, bro.
 

Yossarian

Fan Favourite
Sir_Didier_Drogba, I completely by-passed Waits on your list. Again, I'm not gonna pretend like I'm his biggest fan, but whenever my parents are listening to him, or the CBC (The BBC's equivalent here in Canada) does a piece on him (they've done a ton), I'm always compelled and captivated like nothing else, man. Boy is he cool....beyond cool......so cool that both the North and South Poles feel inadequate around him. Just a ******* brilliant actor/composer/storyteller/vocalist/writer, man.

If you're really into 'em, you should check out Leonard Cohen aswell, man.


You should also check out the films that he's prominently featured in (Big time, his works with Jim Jarmusch and Coppola, and Short Cuts with Altman)





http://www.abc.net.au/dig/stories/s1214304.htm

http://blogcritics.org/archives/2003/06/25/002049.php

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4077216
 
S

Sir Calumn

Guest
I personally have always considered Folk to be one of the many divisions over which country is an umbrella, like Pure Country, Country and Western, the Nashville Sound etc. I would classify Bruce Springsteen as stadium rock, which is a division of country rock which is a hybrid between country, traditional rock 'n' roll and modern rock. Hendrix even used to play a bit of music that was on the country borderline. Anyway, I'm a big fan of that whole wide scene of music from traditional riverbank soul to modern country rock, and everything in between.

But yeah, Tom Waits is probably my favourite musician of them all, he's just churned out so much high quality stuff using and extreme variety of styles and lots of experimentation. I love the deep haunting resonance of his voice, the raw music he uses and the intricity of the lyrics. For anyone trying to get into him, the albums you want to check out first are Small Change (which is full of his simple yet brilliant piana ballards and my favourite of all his songs 'The Piano has been Drinking'), Frank's Wild Years (much more traditional album using my conventional country styles), Bone Machine (with some of his darkest and most memorably tunes, ie my second favourite Waits song 'Going out west') and Real Gone (which is the most experimental of his good albums, The Black Rider is THE most experimental but a bit over the top, Real Gone is some of the bizarrest but best music you will ever hear). If you are downloading tracks, go for 'Going Out West' as it is his most easily appreciable song and absolutely superb, it would be in my top 10 tracks of all time. But as you get more into Waits, you'll find he's done almost 20 albums (all of which I have) and atleast half are absolute masterworks.

Never listened to Leonard Cohen, will check him out though. I am a huge Jim Jarmusch film though, absolutely love his films. I actually met the guy once at a festival and he told me to 'look him up when I'm famous' :p Night on Earth is my favourite of his films, a brilliant piece of work with that awe-inspiring Waits soundtrack.
 

PhiLLer

Fan Favourite
When I think of country I think of Kenny Rogers, Merle Haggard, Dolly Parton, Willie Nelson, Johnny Cash...that's country. If you want to consider Bob Dylan country then by that same logic you can consider Black Sabbath pop music. Folk doesn't have anything to do with country music as far as I'm concerned, I see no link.
However there are of course rock/folk bands that have used country influences here and there (which I don't mind). Think of bands like Grateful Dead with their country-esque bass guitar play, or even The Eagles have a touch of country in their songs. I don't mind that at all but the "real" country (as mentioned above)...I can't stand it. My dad loves it though. :D
 
S

Sir Calumn

Guest
I would describe that as pure country, except for Kenny Rogers who is commercial country, though I still really like him (The Gambler and Just Dropped In are amazing songs), and yeah, I love Johnny Cash and Willie Nelson (especially after seeing him live). Gram Parsons aswell is another favourite of mine. Lets just say I love country music and all that surrouds it :D
 

Yossarian

Fan Favourite
Sir Didier*CFC said:
I personally have always considered Folk to be one of the many divisions over which country is an umbrella, like Pure Country, Country and Western, the Nashville Sound etc. I would classify Bruce Springsteen as stadium rock, which is a division of country rock which is a hybrid between country, traditional rock 'n' roll and modern rock. Hendrix even used to play a bit of music that was on the country borderline. Anyway, I'm a big fan of that whole wide scene of music from traditional riverbank soul to modern country rock, and everything in between.

.



It's the other way around, bro. Folk has been around a lot longer and in many other sorts of cultures. Country music (a truly American practice) is the seed of Folk. It's the less political and more commercial division of folk. When it was first being played up in the mountains by dem hillbillies, it had basically the exact same musical structure as traditional folk minus the politics. The only differences nowadays since just about most artists of the genres have a foot in both categories is that Country is almost always electrically arranged (Heavily Pop flavoured) and has a strong Conservative following, while Folk is a lot more minimal and arranged acoustically and has a more Liberal base.



Folk: Woody Guthrie, Joan Baez, Peter Paul & Mary, Crosby, Stills & Nash, Neil Young (Folk Rock), Joni Mitchell, Dylan, and Seeger

Country: Roy Rogers, Hank Williams, Waylon Jennings, George Jones, Loretta Lynn, Patsy Clines, he Stanley Brothers, Willie Nelson, Wynette, Cash, Merle Haggard, Bill Monroe, George Strait. Dolly Parton

Also, you're right that Bruce is a stadium act, but how does that make 'em country? The Rolling Stones are an Arena act. as was Zeppelin, Queen, and a good portion of the 80s Heavy Rock acts.

There are/were huge Souther bands, though, who had a foundation in traditional Country/Blues/ who played big Arenas: Namely The Allman Brothers, Lynyrd Skynyrd, ZZ Top, Poco, The Outlaws, Molly Hatchet and Blackfoot.
 
C

Callan

Guest
Not really interested in bio pieces. Didn't like the Aviator, Ray was quite boring... Finding Neverland... wouldn't watch them again.

I can see this as being long and boring yet nominated for best picture... But I will probably go and see it.
 
S

Sir Calumn

Guest
Yeah but Folk has a very wide span, bands like the Pogues and the Fureys classify as folk but there's totally different from the folk performers you mentioned, and they perform it in its most traditional form. Dylan, Seeger, Guthrie (whom I dont like at all btw) are very, very much at the country end of folk compared to the others in this genre.

Anyway, I'm a conservative-liberal hybrid so I'm allowed to like both Folk and Country :p
 

Hakeem

Superman
went to see it yesterday. You guys, as fans, will like it a lot more than I did.

Boasting stellar performances by Joaquin Phoenix and Reese Witherspoon, Walk the Line is a Johnny Cash biopic that is so much like last year's Ray Charles biopic that it will be tough for it to suffer the comparisons, especially since Ray is easily a much better movie overall. I do have to admit that I didn't know one single Johnny Cash (nor June Carter) song before going to see the movie, and I only recognized one of them, Ring of Fire but just because it's been promoted since the movie was announced. So fans of Johnny Cash and country music in general will probably like it better, and I quite liked it.

Poor and having to work during his childhood, with a brother that died when they were kids, a tough time to get into the business, and a drug abuse problem that came with that, all that was part of Ray, and also of Walk the Line now. And both had very strong, Oscar worthy performances. Joaquin Phoenix plays the Man in Black and what a performance he gives. Quite and very interior at times, or putting it all out because of the drug or the alcohol, he makes no mistake. Emotional when needed, funny too. Of course that this is the best performance of his career, and he was great in Gladiator, Quills and Buffalo Soldiers too. If I had to give someone the Oscar the right now, I'd go with Philip Seymour Hoffman for Capote though, but Joaquin would be second in line.
A tougher role in the movie was that of Reese Witherspoon who plays June Carter, the love of Johnny Cash's life for a long time before she finally married him. Reese is amazing here, perfectly transforming into June from the beginning of the movie. She has a very thick accent, that must've been easy since being a southern belle herself, and luckily doesn't tiring or anything. Oscar talk again, she would be a lock to win if she were supporting. Still, she has great chances as a lead actress. I liked her better than Charlize Theron in North Country, but I'm not so sure if better than Gwyneth Paltrow in Proof, though both those movies tanked at the box office so it's going to be very tough for them to overpower Reese.

Johnny Cash's story starts with the death of his brother, which happened when they were young and left him with a grudge against his father who made him miserable after the accident (Carlos Cash died while working cutting wood on a circular saw). The father, Ray Cash, is played by Robert Patrick who gives a pretty good performance too.
After Johnny got married for the first time he formed a country band with some friends from work (who were not good musicians at all) and then he found a recording company who let them record a song but not before they changed their music which was very mediocre at first, but once Cash found his right sound and style, he was a superstar.
June Carter had been a star since she was a child and around these days she was married and singing with her husband. She played it funny though, as her family of big musicians always told her that she wasn't the best of them, and so she thought of bringing comedy to her act.
She had a tough time having to put up with all those boys she toured with (during their Sun Records days, which gave life to many popular singers back then), which included Elvis Presley (pop-star Tyler Hilton), Jerry Lee Lewis (Waylon Malloy Payne) and Carl Perkins (blues singer Johnny Holiday). And after that she had to live with Johnny Cash's stalking (pretty much) and the people's disapproval of her getting divorced which happened twice before wedding Cash, and during all that she also got put down for forming a relationship with him (just friends though at first) while they were both married. Cash's first wife was Vivian Cash and she is played by Ginnifer Goodwin, who gives a passable performance though she gets very little respect in the story. She's complaining all the time (rightly so though as Johnny was touring and singing duets with June all the time, and he was popping pills like a maniac), crying and yelling, and the writers don't care to give her any dignity like Ray's did with Kerry Washington's Della Bea, Ray's wife who had to go through pretty much if not more (especially being black) than Vivian.

I love the fact that all of the actors portraying singers in the movie actually sang all their songs, including Joaquin and Reese who make the perfect singing voices and can really sing in tune and in the same style Johnny and June did. I'm guessing they also played the instruments themselves. The songs during the whole movie are excellent and very enjoyable. The sound department did a great job with the music for the movie. Sadly though, that's the only technical praise I can give the movie. Phedon Papamichael's cinematography is not impressive at all, and I really feel the movie needed some kind of style like Ray had which was that beautiful black and gray tone of smoking. Nothing like that here. Director James Mangold's camera work was also mediocre, poor even. Very disappointing coming from the man who gave us Cop Land and Girl, Interrupted, both great movies that had their own styles, even his Kate & Leopold did.

Co-written by Mangold and Gill Dennis, and based on a couple of Cash's autobiographies, this is a very good movie that does a great job in showing us who Johnny and June were and what they went through, but as a whole it fails because the supporting players are very underwritten, specially Ray, as Patrick could've use more time to develop the character, and Vivian, though if the role would've been bigger I don't know if Goodwin could've make it work. Still, the music and powerful lead performances make Walk the Line very worthy of a watch, and it's made me want to give Cash's discography a try. I'm sure I'll become a fan after a few listenings.
 
C

Callan

Guest
Sh!t... If Ray was a better movie than this then there's no way I am going to see it.

Ray was long, boring and pointless.
 
S

Sir Calumn

Guest
I disagree about Ray, as you all know, I really enjoyed it. I'm not, as a rule, a big fan of biopics, but I thought Ray to be thoroughly entertaining, full enough to never get dull but "eventless" enough to allow the quality of the music to shine through. One of my fav films of last year.

I'm hoping to enjoy this more as I am much more of a fan of Johnny Cash than of Ray Charles, though I do prefer Foxx to Pheonix. Hakeem's review is quite heartening, as it seems to portray the film as one which concentrates heavily on Cash's talent and the quality of his music rather than any popular scandals or personal issues. I am looking forward to it.

In totally unnrelated news, I've managed to get tickets to go see BB King in his last ever UK tour :D I can't wait.
 

Hakeem

Superman
Sir Didier*CFC said:
I disagree about Ray, as you all know, I really enjoyed it. I'm not, as a rule, a big fan of biopics, but I thought Ray to be thoroughly entertaining, full enough to never get dull but "eventless" enough to allow the quality of the music to shine through. One of my fav films of last year.

I'm hoping to enjoy this more as I am much more of a fan of Johnny Cash than of Ray Charles, though I do prefer Foxx to Pheonix. Hakeem's review is quite heartening, as it seems to portray the film as one which concentrates heavily on Cash's talent and the quality of his music rather than any popular scandals or personal issues. I am looking forward to it.

yeah, there's a lot of music but a lot of his relationship with June Carter and also with his father towards the end. the center of the movie is the Johnny-June relationship though. But there's not much of the popular scandals or anything like that.


I thought Ray was brilliant btw, and it definetly had much more to offer than Walk the Line in its technical aspects.
 
S

Sir Calumn

Guest
Hakeem said:
yeah, there's a lot of music but a lot of his relationship with June Carter and also with his father towards the end. the center of the movie is the Johnny-June relationship though. But there's not much of the popular scandals or anything like that.
Sounds interesting. I dont really know much about Cash as a person, or particularly care, but I am very interested in the history of his music so it will be great to find out more about it without having to watch a boring, No Direction Home style docufilm like we did for Bob Dylan. I do hope they dont make a habit of making biopics of all the legendary old musicians, however, as standards are bound to slip. They are utterly dependant on the suitability of the lead actor, and when you are making a biopic for the sake of rememberence or relevance, it is often so hard to find that perfect actor. When making a biopic, you need to start with an actor before you even know who it's about and go from there.
 
V

Virgo

Guest
Ray was one of the most boring films I've ever seen. Absolute snoozefest unless you're really into Ray Charles or that kind of music for that matter. It's just a really bad structured film and it doesn't even come together at the end. The acting is top notch but that just wasn't enough to keep me half interested.
 

$teauA

Superstar
I saw this yesterday. Throughout the whole movie I couldn't help but draw parallels between it and Ray, which kinda took away from the experience. The acting was amazing though and both Jaquin Phoenix and Reese Witherspoon should receive Oscar nominations for best actor and actress. The fact that they actually sang all the music in the movie is simply amazing because it was chilling how much they both sounded like Johnny Cash and June Carter. Overall it was a really good film, not best I've seen this year (Jarhead) but very good.

8/10.

PS: me and a some friends got bored and decided to play scene it tonight (H)! The reason why I'm posting it here is because I won! lol...
 


Top