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FC Bayern München Thread [2011/2012]
- Thread starter paolo-fcb
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ShiftyPowers
Make America Great Again
I'm a huge Micah fan, but how good is he really? I've never considered Zabaleta a top player, and he took Richards' spot.
ShiftyPowers
Make America Great Again
Bundesliga Fanatic (best English Language Source for Bundesliga Coverage) put out their top 25 players of the season.
I think the bottom 5 is a little weird and maybe trying to include some lesser known players, but really a pretty good list. Hard to argue with it, although I think I'd have Kagawa and Hummels over Ribery, as amazing as he was in the first half he did tail off a little in the second half.
1. Marco Reus - Gladbach
2. Franck Ribery - Bayern
3. Mats Hummels - Dortmund
4. Shinji Kagawa - Dortmund
5. Klaas-Jan Huntelaar- Schalke
6. Robert Lewandowski - Dortmund
7. Mario Gomez - Bayern
8. Toni Kroos - Bayern
9. Juan Arango - Gladbach
10. Martin Harnik - Stuttgart
11. Lukas Podolski - Koln
12. Claudio Pizarro - Werder Bremen
13. Lars Bender - Leverkusen
14. Sebastian Kehl - Dortmund
15. Raul - Schalke
16. Bernd Leno - Leverkusen
17. Lukasz Piszczek - Dortmund
18. Marc-Andre 'ter Stegen - Gladbach
19. Tony Jantschke - Gladbach
20. Sven Ulreich - Stuttgart
21. Dante - Gladbach
22. Lars Stindl - Hannover
23. Mario Mandžukić - Wolfsburg
24. Cedric Makiadi - Freiburg
25. Axel Bellinghausen - Augsburg
I think the bottom 5 is a little weird and maybe trying to include some lesser known players, but really a pretty good list. Hard to argue with it, although I think I'd have Kagawa and Hummels over Ribery, as amazing as he was in the first half he did tail off a little in the second half.
ShiftyPowers
Make America Great Again
This really is like the best week ever as far as English language fawning over FC Bayern goes. Every day there's another great article about our past or present. Anyway, here's Rafael Honigstein on the club's Jewish history
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/may/12/bayern-munich-anti-nazi-history
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/may/12/bayern-munich-anti-nazi-history
ShiftyPowers
Make America Great Again
Here's another. Jonathan Wilson "the big floating brain" of The Guardian, writer of the great tactics column "The Question", and author of the excellent and amazing history of football tactics "Inverting the Pyramid" profiles Philip Lahm:
"Lahm, the ideal footballer"
http://www.espnstar.com/editorial/news/detail/item803763/Wilson:-Lahm,-the-ideal-footballer/
"Lahm, the ideal footballer"
http://www.espnstar.com/editorial/news/detail/item803763/Wilson:-Lahm,-the-ideal-footballer/
ShiftyPowers
Make America Great Again
Hey Fili (if you read this)...
Do you think Vilas Boas would work at Bayern? I kind of think we have his ideal side almost, and that midfield of Gustavo, Schweinsteiger, and Kroos is insane. He would loooooooove Thomas Muller too, I think. Am I wrong in thinking that the offense (at least the version where Kroos is the AMC) would be mostly unchanged, but the defense would push up and we would press. Do you think guys like Gomez, Ribery, and Robben would press? (this is why I think he would love Muller).
Do you think Vilas Boas would work at Bayern? I kind of think we have his ideal side almost, and that midfield of Gustavo, Schweinsteiger, and Kroos is insane. He would loooooooove Thomas Muller too, I think. Am I wrong in thinking that the offense (at least the version where Kroos is the AMC) would be mostly unchanged, but the defense would push up and we would press. Do you think guys like Gomez, Ribery, and Robben would press? (this is why I think he would love Muller).
That's actually a good point, never thought of that. And you're right in every aspect I think, although I'm not really sure how he would deal with the Robben/Ribery thing. It's one thing to have Hulk given a green card and Varela on the other side, but Ribery would want to get in on the party too. He'd also want Gomez to work a bit more, I mean he's actually improved he's "coming deep to get into play" side, but André failed to make Drogba or Torres do what he wanted. That being said, against weaker sides you would get like 4-0 wins with 70% possession, but you guys kind of seem to be doing that already.
You raise a good point because I've never thought of Bayern's style being too much like Porto's, but now that you mentioned it I can see some similarities.
Now the attack would perhaps be a walk in the park, but what I loved about Porto last year and no one ever seems to know/remember, is that Porto's defensive solidity was unlike anything else in Europe last year. Now that came down to a few of things:
Helton was in insane form. Neuer is good, so no trouble there.
He managed to get the goods out of Fucile and Sapunaru, and no one really knows how that was possible. Lahm wouldn't be a problem either.
Pereira was the best left-back in Europe last year. Alaba is solid but would need to be even better. Although Pereira was more of a wing-back than anything, so the defensive record wasn't the aspect he influenced the most.
Rolando and Otamendí. Now, Rolando this season seemed to be losing his form and having bad games, but he was a ROCK last year. and Otamendi is one of the players who come to Porto and you know he shouldn't really be playing in the Portuguese league because he's just too good. To be honest I don't really like Bayern's center-backs, but that's more personal than technical, so I admit they can be pretty solid. He might bring someone in though.
And then the midfield. Moutinho was Villas-Boas pièce de resistance(I sound like Xifio now), because although it was a Pinto da Costa's transfer, no other player got André's ideology so well on the pitch as that little ****er. Schweinsteiger would be crucial, either he also got it, or the whole thing would fall to pieces. (I actually think this was kind of what happened with Lampard at Chelsea)
Belluschi for the first part of the season, then Guarín for the second were the last-passers, the chance-creators of the midfield (again I have no idea how both of them were in such good shape), but they weren't really the essential factor of the team. I reckon Kroos would be ideal too because he's getting more and more tactically savvy at the same time he has that technique of a more offensive guy.
The last element though, would be, after or even before Moutinho/Schweiny, the MOST important one. Fernando. Gustavo, from what I've seen, tends to have someone on his side like Schweinsteiger to recover balls and intercept passes. Now I'm not saying the other two midfielders wouldn't help, but Gustavo would need to be much more of a lone ranger. If I was you guys, or any other team in the world for that matter, I'd actually buy the Octopus.
Muller. Well, Muller would fit in the midfield if you took off Kroos and Gustavo worked a bit more. He'd work perhaps instead of Ribery, closing down and making the team have 4 guys in the midfield in defense situations. He'd perhaps replace Gomez when needed, because let's face it Bayern don't really have any other top strikers. But the problem I see with it is the same I see now, regardless of the manager: Muller will always be replacing someone who's better at that position - except for Kroos in the classical AMC spot, but that doesn't exist in the 4-3-3 version of Villas-Boas' Bayern I'm talking about.
**** that was long. I blame you, though
You raise a good point because I've never thought of Bayern's style being too much like Porto's, but now that you mentioned it I can see some similarities.
Now the attack would perhaps be a walk in the park, but what I loved about Porto last year and no one ever seems to know/remember, is that Porto's defensive solidity was unlike anything else in Europe last year. Now that came down to a few of things:
Helton was in insane form. Neuer is good, so no trouble there.
He managed to get the goods out of Fucile and Sapunaru, and no one really knows how that was possible. Lahm wouldn't be a problem either.
Pereira was the best left-back in Europe last year. Alaba is solid but would need to be even better. Although Pereira was more of a wing-back than anything, so the defensive record wasn't the aspect he influenced the most.
Rolando and Otamendí. Now, Rolando this season seemed to be losing his form and having bad games, but he was a ROCK last year. and Otamendi is one of the players who come to Porto and you know he shouldn't really be playing in the Portuguese league because he's just too good. To be honest I don't really like Bayern's center-backs, but that's more personal than technical, so I admit they can be pretty solid. He might bring someone in though.
And then the midfield. Moutinho was Villas-Boas pièce de resistance(I sound like Xifio now), because although it was a Pinto da Costa's transfer, no other player got André's ideology so well on the pitch as that little ****er. Schweinsteiger would be crucial, either he also got it, or the whole thing would fall to pieces. (I actually think this was kind of what happened with Lampard at Chelsea)
Belluschi for the first part of the season, then Guarín for the second were the last-passers, the chance-creators of the midfield (again I have no idea how both of them were in such good shape), but they weren't really the essential factor of the team. I reckon Kroos would be ideal too because he's getting more and more tactically savvy at the same time he has that technique of a more offensive guy.
The last element though, would be, after or even before Moutinho/Schweiny, the MOST important one. Fernando. Gustavo, from what I've seen, tends to have someone on his side like Schweinsteiger to recover balls and intercept passes. Now I'm not saying the other two midfielders wouldn't help, but Gustavo would need to be much more of a lone ranger. If I was you guys, or any other team in the world for that matter, I'd actually buy the Octopus.
Muller. Well, Muller would fit in the midfield if you took off Kroos and Gustavo worked a bit more. He'd work perhaps instead of Ribery, closing down and making the team have 4 guys in the midfield in defense situations. He'd perhaps replace Gomez when needed, because let's face it Bayern don't really have any other top strikers. But the problem I see with it is the same I see now, regardless of the manager: Muller will always be replacing someone who's better at that position - except for Kroos in the classical AMC spot, but that doesn't exist in the 4-3-3 version of Villas-Boas' Bayern I'm talking about.
**** that was long. I blame you, though
ShiftyPowers
Make America Great Again
Gustavo is a beast, and I think his natural position is as a lone defensive midfielder; he just happens to play in a 4-2-3-1 at Bayern because he arrived like 16 months ago, well after that formation was established. But when Bayern really have to throw guys forward, he has at times allowed Schweinsteiger to essentially play as another AMC while doing the "lone ranger" thing as you describe very well.
Anyway, someone on a Bayern forum asked who the next manager was, and after I half-jokenly, half-seriously said Mourinho, I said that I thought Vilas Boas would be pretty good. I don't think the Bayern players would have to be EXACTLY like Porto's guys, Vilas Boas isn't a complete 1 trick moron incapable of any adaptation at all.
Regarding our defense... no I don't particularly care for them either, but at the same time they seem to be solid enough. If Boateng would lose his habit of making late challenges in the box I think they would be more than fine. And Dante is coming from Gladbach next season, so it really would not surprise me if Boateng was once again moved out to right or left back. The wing thing would have a lot of options, with Muller and Shaqiri as backups. I don't think Muller would be capable of playing in a 4-3-3 as a central midfielder, he's a striker who is smart enough to play on the wing and score goals and track back, but technically he can't play at the highest levels. Maybe he could on another team, but Bayern have been #2 in Europe in possession for a few years I think. The issue would probably be midfield depth; I think the only other player we have is Tymoschuk who definitely is a natural DM, but is getting old. We would have to really invest.
Anyway, someone on a Bayern forum asked who the next manager was, and after I half-jokenly, half-seriously said Mourinho, I said that I thought Vilas Boas would be pretty good. I don't think the Bayern players would have to be EXACTLY like Porto's guys, Vilas Boas isn't a complete 1 trick moron incapable of any adaptation at all.
Regarding our defense... no I don't particularly care for them either, but at the same time they seem to be solid enough. If Boateng would lose his habit of making late challenges in the box I think they would be more than fine. And Dante is coming from Gladbach next season, so it really would not surprise me if Boateng was once again moved out to right or left back. The wing thing would have a lot of options, with Muller and Shaqiri as backups. I don't think Muller would be capable of playing in a 4-3-3 as a central midfielder, he's a striker who is smart enough to play on the wing and score goals and track back, but technically he can't play at the highest levels. Maybe he could on another team, but Bayern have been #2 in Europe in possession for a few years I think. The issue would probably be midfield depth; I think the only other player we have is Tymoschuk who definitely is a natural DM, but is getting old. We would have to really invest.
Oh definitely, but I was just comparing both sides. Yeah, with a more decent centerback and another midfielder, considering Shaqiri is going there too, I don't see why it would go wrong. I mean, I loved that he crashed and burned at Chelsea, but now a part of me wants him to prove those old bitches at Chelsea he's not that bad.
ShiftyPowers
Make America Great Again
I will say, however, that the media spotlight is even worse at Bayern. And if he didn't like Abramovic and the players undermining him at Chelsea, wait until he gets a taste of the politics at FC Hollywood. Lose 3 games and you have Beckenbauer questioning your dedication or Hoeness lining up replacements.
I read in "Tor! A History of German Soccer" that Lother Mattheus read like 5 different tabloids every day. The author said in a way it made sense, because that's the only way he would know what his teammates were saying about the team.
I read in "Tor! A History of German Soccer" that Lother Mattheus read like 5 different tabloids every day. The author said in a way it made sense, because that's the only way he would know what his teammates were saying about the team.
ShiftyPowers
Make America Great Again
I will say, however, that the media spotlight is even worse at Bayern. And if he didn't like Abramovic and the players undermining him at Chelsea, wait until he gets a taste of the politics at FC Hollywood. Lose 3 games and you have Beckenbauer questioning your dedication or Hoeness lining up replacements.
I read in "Tor! A History of German Soccer" that Lother Mattheus read like 5 different tabloids every day. The author said in a way it made sense, because that's the only way he would know what his teammates were saying about the team.
I read in "Tor! A History of German Soccer" that Lother Mattheus read like 5 different tabloids every day. The author said in a way it made sense, because that's the only way he would know what his teammates were saying about the team.
I liked AVB, wanted it to work, didn't want him to leave, but he was too fixed on making the old horses try new tricks. We played with a high line for far too long, and Mata on the wing left Cole so exposed that he looked like a shadow of himself. With the right players it would've worked, but he should've realised sooner than it easn't going to work with what he had and change to something else, even if just so we can survive the season. He didn't. I never understood why he refused to use the 4-2-3-1 consistently when it clearly worked.
ShiftyPowers
Make America Great Again
1/6
yoyo913
Team Captain
1/6th of a liter of bourbon consumed?
I feel bad for Schweiny. Guy must have thought he had to win this for all the Bayern fans present. This was a very classy game btw, the players played with great sportsmanship overall, the arena looked great.
The shooting was very off. It was as if they couldn't get any power into the shot. I believe Di Matteo told his guys to keep tight on Bayern. I didn't watch much Chelsea this season but I'm assuming that's one of their big strengths, as I've seen in the past.
A couple questions: Does Schweinsteiger always shoot penalties with that hesitation? How does this compare to 99' (I apologize if you've answered this in another thread) ?
I feel bad for Schweiny. Guy must have thought he had to win this for all the Bayern fans present. This was a very classy game btw, the players played with great sportsmanship overall, the arena looked great.
The shooting was very off. It was as if they couldn't get any power into the shot. I believe Di Matteo told his guys to keep tight on Bayern. I didn't watch much Chelsea this season but I'm assuming that's one of their big strengths, as I've seen in the past.
A couple questions: Does Schweinsteiger always shoot penalties with that hesitation? How does this compare to 99' (I apologize if you've answered this in another thread) ?
ShiftyPowers
Make America Great Again
Much easier to take than 99. After Drogba got that goal I was ******* ****TING myself, but when it got to extra time I was more calm. I think even the Bayern players were time wasting at the end of 90 minutes just praying that '99 wouldn't happen again.
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