It can't be doubted that everyone here has been frustrated about the draw. Probably, most people like myself would be saying dumb stupid things until United get another win. I'm pretty sure with a victory at Villarreal, everyone will probably shut up about the negativity. I have kicked myself out of this anger mode and I can't believe the stupidity of the comments posted by you guys and by myself.
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Manchester United Thread [2005/2006]
- Thread starter Fernandez
- Start date
- Status
Dazmania said:
Amen - nothing to add.
I'm positive Rooney will never again have to play on England's left wing. That was one of his "bad games" still he was more or less the only player that cared on the pitch, and on saturday he was 2nd MoM just behind Van der Sar, everything somehow was connected with him.
Give the lad a break (I'd wish the press would too)
I'm happy to see Jones makeing good and even goal scoring appereances, aswell as for Richardson getting some minutes (even if it's only here and there)
and Smith, no moaning, just hard working himself into a new position - what a player
gud to be back....
since i've been banned alot of things have been going around the club!!
anyways to the point! i think manchester united are not doing bad at all its just whenever we go 1-0 up, we go defensive mode and don't try to finish the game off that most of the times comes back and bites us in the ass!
don't worry we'll top the champions league group! it's just chelski we have to worry about!
since i've been banned alot of things have been going around the club!!
anyways to the point! i think manchester united are not doing bad at all its just whenever we go 1-0 up, we go defensive mode and don't try to finish the game off that most of the times comes back and bites us in the ass!
don't worry we'll top the champions league group! it's just chelski we have to worry about!
TheBlueBalla
Starting XI
I know you may not agree on everything, but why are 4 of the most 7 or 8 compotent Man United fans at eachothers throats? (:/) I know it was a stroke of bad luck, and you were in great form before, but City are off to an incredible start, and Chelsea didnt beat them once last year. Perspective, please
It's all down to frustration. When we win, we celebrate together. When we lose or draw against an inferior side, we tend to argue. It's humane for us to do it.
http://skysports.planetfootball.com...+Practice+makes+perfect&channel=football_home
Looking forward to his return, just hope he gains the extra muscle.
http://skysports.planetfootball.com...+Practice+makes+perfect&channel=football_home
Looking forward to his return, just hope he gains the extra muscle.
and why ain't they a force anymore,because they dont have grabbed all the point's so far?eassam said:
they just got some injury problems,and there "black nowember " is shifted to september!
I recon they will be up there fighting for the title as usally in april- may(and so will we)
Giggs: my fear of the blue revolution
Up close to Ryan Giggs, perched on a sofa which seems small and lost in a vast five-star suite, it's strangely riveting to watch the unsettling emotions ripple across his familiar billboard face. Giggs might be holed up for the afternoon in The Lowry, Manchester's swankiest hotel, reflecting on his 15 seasons at the world's biggest football club, but he cannot shut Chelsea out of the room. Every mention of the champions unleashes a reaction from a 31-year-old man who has spent nearly half his life playing often exquisite football for Manchester United while concealing his feelings beneath a subdued poise.
A look of mild shock is the first indication that not even Giggs can remain inscrutable in the wake of a blue juggernaut - with Chelsea having won their opening five matches of the season and Alex Ferguson wondering aloud whether United can afford to lose a single game this campaign. "The first time I felt concerned about Chelsea," Giggs remembers, "was when I heard [last March] that [Arjen] Robben had chosen them over us. He was the second player to do that - Damien Duff also went there when he could've come to Old Trafford. That worried me a lot. Chelsea could offer players as much money as they liked."
Yet Chelsea now offer more than just hard cash to ambitious players. Apart from their new status as Premiership champions, having finished 18 points ahead of United last season, they boast an imposing asset in Jose Mourinho. Bolstered by their swaggering but tactically pragmatic manager, Chelsea can realistically imagine a Premiership and Champions League double this season - an irresistible lure to new signings like Shaun Wright-Phillips and Michael Essien.
"I know," Giggs concedes. "We talk about it as players at United. We followed the Essien transfer and there are times when you moan about them buying someone else like that for another £25m. You can't help it. But I actually think our best players are better than theirs. And Arsenal, who are so dangerous going forward with so many quality players, are right up there. If you look at each of our first teams then it's very tight between the three clubs."
Arsenal are struggling after their second consecutive away defeat, but Giggs pauses as if hoping to avoid a more troubling thought. He eventually gives in with a shrug. "Yeah, squad-wise, it's different. When injuries and suspensions kick in, Chelsea have much better cover. They've not only got two good players for each position - they've got world-class footballers in reserve. Their squad is far superior to ours and Arsenal's and probably anyone else in the world."
It sounds as if Giggs is about to succumb to the once sacrilegious idea that Chelsea might replace United as the world's most overpowering football club. "There's a real chance of them doing that because they've got the money to buy another two or three players at Christmas. At the same time they've got the kind of backbone we used to have with players like Frank Lampard and John Terry. It's unbelievable that Lampard has hardly missed a game in three seasons."
Lampard might have begun this season poorly, and Terry is injured, but Chelsea are still top of the league with a perfect 15 points after a month of competition. "On paper you'd have to say they'd be expected to win it again - but we've always believed that, historically, it's hard to defend your championship. I think there'll be a couple of defeats in the end for whoever becomes champions. We saw on the opening day how Wigan stretched Chelsea. That was encouraging."
United, however, will be disappointed to have dropped their first points of the season last weekend - especially at home in the Manchester derby. A visit to Anfield this Sunday may prove an even more exacting test, the old enmity given a twist by Liverpool's Champions League heroics - another surprise which makes Giggs wince. On the first day of his summer holiday he stepped into a lift at Manchester Airport with three Liverpool supporters on their way to Turkey. It was the Monday after United had lost the FA Cup to Arsenal and two days before the Champions League final. Giggs withstood the taunts by suggesting the inevitability of Liverpool's defeat in Istanbul. After their subsequent stunning win over Milan he admits, "I didn't buy a paper for a week."
Last season hurt United terribly on three fronts. Overwhelmed by Chelsea in the league, overshadowed by Liverpool in Europe and out of luck against Arsenal in the cup, they won nothing - only the fourth time in 15 seasons that Giggs and his club have failed to lift a trophy. "It was weird," he says of coming off the bench while United lost the cup final on penalties, "because we made a very good team look ordinary. But we still had to watch them cavorting around with the cup.
"We tried to say 'stuff it, let's still have a great night', but everyone kept saying 'how the hell did we lose?' It hit the young lads hard - I went up to [Wayne] Rooney, [Christiano] Ronaldo and [Darren] Fletcher and told them they'd been brilliant and that the way we had played should give us optimism for this season."
Giggs is not a natural leader, so the image of him comforting players who had been chosen ahead of him is particularly poignant. His extraordinary record at United - having won eight Premiership and four FA Cup winners' medals as well as the Champions League - is bettered only by Ferguson. But Giggs is no longer an automatic choice when Ronaldo, Rooney and Ruud van Nistelrooy are all available. Even with Ronaldo missing due to a family bereavement, Giggs only played the last 10 minutes against Manchester City. He almost scored the winner with a flying header but Ferguson had initially opted for Park Ji-sung. "I've still got great belief in my own ability," Giggs insists. "Last season was up and down and I started this one with a chest infection, but I'll soon be back to my best."
He is momentarily silent when asked where he would play himself in United's first XI. His eventual answer is blurted out with a laugh. "Anywhere! I've lost that electric pace I had when I broke into the first team [in March 1991] but I'm more versatile now. I can play upfront, on the left of midfield or left wing. And with more experience I don't waste too many passes."
Giggs still resembles the last of the old-fashioned wingers. His very name conjures up images of him racing past defenders with the ball at his feet -even if it's now hard to summon the poetic license Ferguson used when, on first seeing Giggs play, he called him "as natural and relaxed as a dog chasing a piece of silver paper in the wind".
Soon after that sighting Giggs was elevated to United's first-team squad alongside names which evoke a startlingly different era: Bryan Robson, Viv Anderson, Steve Bruce and Mark Hughes. "I remember, as a schoolboy, having my dinner alongside Robbo and Sparky [Hughes]. They were my heroes and it was intimidating. I started training with them at 15 but, even if they took the piss out of me, they were great. Only Lee Sharpe was a similar age to me - even if he was a few years older. We liked cars and the same music but, otherwise, we were different."
Sharpe and Giggs are joined in football folklore by the story of their impromptu party with a few girls in Manchester, which was shattered by the arrival of a purple-faced Ferguson. "He just kept on knocking on door after door in search of Lee's place. And every wrong one made him more angry. Finally, when he knocked on the right door, he was volcanic."
His wry admission that Fergie "really monstered us" underpins a crucial turning point. Where the Welshman uncovered a steely discipline, Sharpe "fell out of love with football. I saw him about a month ago at a charity dinner. He'd just done that Celebrity Love Island and he seemed happy enough. He was incredibly talented but football's changed. The top young players are much more disciplined now and you can trust them more. And the fact that Ronaldo and Rooney cost £12m and £30m means they have to be treated differently. They seem older than they actually are . . ."
Giggs' allegiance to United runs so deep that it seems bizarre to recall those old rumours every season that he was bound for Italy. In fact the only moment of hesitancy came earlier this year, when United were reluctant to shift from their policy of never offering a player over 30 more than a year-long contract. "That disappointed me at the time. I had pushed the boat out by asking for three more years - but in the end we settled on two and that only took a couple of meetings."
Rio Ferdinand's contractual demands, instead, rumbled on for months. "It wasn't a great thing to have hanging over our heads, with the fans booing him, so I'm glad it's over. I was never sure if it was really about money but friends who've known me a long time would ring up and say, 'Is it true what Rio wants?' I didn't know but I understood their reaction. When they read what Rio's making a week they'd say, '****, I won't earn that in three or four years.'"
Giggs also sympathised with United supporters during the trauma of Malcolm Glazer's takeover. "You understand their concern. Fans are passionate and they feel something's happening which is not for the good of their team. My gut-reaction was that it would never happen - [Glazer] was just too far away - but of course I was wrong."
Avoiding any criticism of Glazer, Giggs highlights instead the limited focus of Premiership footballers. "It's weird. We're right in the middle of it but we don't really think about it. We met [Glazer's sons] in pre-season in Portugal but we just said hello. The players hardly ever talk about it. They're too busy taking the piss out of each other's clothes and haircuts."
Giggs rolls his eyes at the suggestion that, while Chelsea grow stronger and United feel the effects of a dubious American takeover, the empty sound of designer chit-chat must be slowly driving Roy Keane mad. "He's never been into that gear and so he has a go at everyone else. Keaney can seem really angry but I kid him that he just doesn't look as smart as everyone else. But he's so determined, and if he sees anyone slacking off then he lets them know."
Yet the spine of United's team is undoubtedly ageing and changing - a fact acknowledged by Giggs. "The gaffer has always tried to retain a nucleus of players but it's getting harder. We've no longer got that nucleus of 10 or more who've been together a long time. Phil Neville's gone, Butt went the year before and Beckham the season before that. But the new boys like Rooney and Ronaldo are big players. It just takes time to gel and last season we didn't have our usual consistency."
United might have a game in hand but they already trail Chelsea by five points. They cannot afford to lose any more ground even at this early stage of the season - and playing Liverpool away will reveal much about the seriousness of their challenge. "We need everyone to perform every match to keep up with Chelsea," Giggs asserts, his determination to feature prominently in United's resurgence as fierce as that driving the more obviously combustible Keane and Ferguson. "We've run out of excuses. It's time to perform again and win match after match like we used to do - season after season."
Giggs: The Autobiography, by Ryan Giggs with Joe Lovejoy, is published by M Joseph at £18.99. To order a copy with free UK p&p go to guardian.co.uk/bookshop or call the Guardian book service: 0870 836 0875
http://football.guardian.co.uk/News_Story/0,1563,1568468,00.html
Up close to Ryan Giggs, perched on a sofa which seems small and lost in a vast five-star suite, it's strangely riveting to watch the unsettling emotions ripple across his familiar billboard face. Giggs might be holed up for the afternoon in The Lowry, Manchester's swankiest hotel, reflecting on his 15 seasons at the world's biggest football club, but he cannot shut Chelsea out of the room. Every mention of the champions unleashes a reaction from a 31-year-old man who has spent nearly half his life playing often exquisite football for Manchester United while concealing his feelings beneath a subdued poise.
A look of mild shock is the first indication that not even Giggs can remain inscrutable in the wake of a blue juggernaut - with Chelsea having won their opening five matches of the season and Alex Ferguson wondering aloud whether United can afford to lose a single game this campaign. "The first time I felt concerned about Chelsea," Giggs remembers, "was when I heard [last March] that [Arjen] Robben had chosen them over us. He was the second player to do that - Damien Duff also went there when he could've come to Old Trafford. That worried me a lot. Chelsea could offer players as much money as they liked."
Yet Chelsea now offer more than just hard cash to ambitious players. Apart from their new status as Premiership champions, having finished 18 points ahead of United last season, they boast an imposing asset in Jose Mourinho. Bolstered by their swaggering but tactically pragmatic manager, Chelsea can realistically imagine a Premiership and Champions League double this season - an irresistible lure to new signings like Shaun Wright-Phillips and Michael Essien.
"I know," Giggs concedes. "We talk about it as players at United. We followed the Essien transfer and there are times when you moan about them buying someone else like that for another £25m. You can't help it. But I actually think our best players are better than theirs. And Arsenal, who are so dangerous going forward with so many quality players, are right up there. If you look at each of our first teams then it's very tight between the three clubs."
Arsenal are struggling after their second consecutive away defeat, but Giggs pauses as if hoping to avoid a more troubling thought. He eventually gives in with a shrug. "Yeah, squad-wise, it's different. When injuries and suspensions kick in, Chelsea have much better cover. They've not only got two good players for each position - they've got world-class footballers in reserve. Their squad is far superior to ours and Arsenal's and probably anyone else in the world."
It sounds as if Giggs is about to succumb to the once sacrilegious idea that Chelsea might replace United as the world's most overpowering football club. "There's a real chance of them doing that because they've got the money to buy another two or three players at Christmas. At the same time they've got the kind of backbone we used to have with players like Frank Lampard and John Terry. It's unbelievable that Lampard has hardly missed a game in three seasons."
Lampard might have begun this season poorly, and Terry is injured, but Chelsea are still top of the league with a perfect 15 points after a month of competition. "On paper you'd have to say they'd be expected to win it again - but we've always believed that, historically, it's hard to defend your championship. I think there'll be a couple of defeats in the end for whoever becomes champions. We saw on the opening day how Wigan stretched Chelsea. That was encouraging."
United, however, will be disappointed to have dropped their first points of the season last weekend - especially at home in the Manchester derby. A visit to Anfield this Sunday may prove an even more exacting test, the old enmity given a twist by Liverpool's Champions League heroics - another surprise which makes Giggs wince. On the first day of his summer holiday he stepped into a lift at Manchester Airport with three Liverpool supporters on their way to Turkey. It was the Monday after United had lost the FA Cup to Arsenal and two days before the Champions League final. Giggs withstood the taunts by suggesting the inevitability of Liverpool's defeat in Istanbul. After their subsequent stunning win over Milan he admits, "I didn't buy a paper for a week."
Last season hurt United terribly on three fronts. Overwhelmed by Chelsea in the league, overshadowed by Liverpool in Europe and out of luck against Arsenal in the cup, they won nothing - only the fourth time in 15 seasons that Giggs and his club have failed to lift a trophy. "It was weird," he says of coming off the bench while United lost the cup final on penalties, "because we made a very good team look ordinary. But we still had to watch them cavorting around with the cup.
"We tried to say 'stuff it, let's still have a great night', but everyone kept saying 'how the hell did we lose?' It hit the young lads hard - I went up to [Wayne] Rooney, [Christiano] Ronaldo and [Darren] Fletcher and told them they'd been brilliant and that the way we had played should give us optimism for this season."
Giggs is not a natural leader, so the image of him comforting players who had been chosen ahead of him is particularly poignant. His extraordinary record at United - having won eight Premiership and four FA Cup winners' medals as well as the Champions League - is bettered only by Ferguson. But Giggs is no longer an automatic choice when Ronaldo, Rooney and Ruud van Nistelrooy are all available. Even with Ronaldo missing due to a family bereavement, Giggs only played the last 10 minutes against Manchester City. He almost scored the winner with a flying header but Ferguson had initially opted for Park Ji-sung. "I've still got great belief in my own ability," Giggs insists. "Last season was up and down and I started this one with a chest infection, but I'll soon be back to my best."
He is momentarily silent when asked where he would play himself in United's first XI. His eventual answer is blurted out with a laugh. "Anywhere! I've lost that electric pace I had when I broke into the first team [in March 1991] but I'm more versatile now. I can play upfront, on the left of midfield or left wing. And with more experience I don't waste too many passes."
Giggs still resembles the last of the old-fashioned wingers. His very name conjures up images of him racing past defenders with the ball at his feet -even if it's now hard to summon the poetic license Ferguson used when, on first seeing Giggs play, he called him "as natural and relaxed as a dog chasing a piece of silver paper in the wind".
Soon after that sighting Giggs was elevated to United's first-team squad alongside names which evoke a startlingly different era: Bryan Robson, Viv Anderson, Steve Bruce and Mark Hughes. "I remember, as a schoolboy, having my dinner alongside Robbo and Sparky [Hughes]. They were my heroes and it was intimidating. I started training with them at 15 but, even if they took the piss out of me, they were great. Only Lee Sharpe was a similar age to me - even if he was a few years older. We liked cars and the same music but, otherwise, we were different."
Sharpe and Giggs are joined in football folklore by the story of their impromptu party with a few girls in Manchester, which was shattered by the arrival of a purple-faced Ferguson. "He just kept on knocking on door after door in search of Lee's place. And every wrong one made him more angry. Finally, when he knocked on the right door, he was volcanic."
His wry admission that Fergie "really monstered us" underpins a crucial turning point. Where the Welshman uncovered a steely discipline, Sharpe "fell out of love with football. I saw him about a month ago at a charity dinner. He'd just done that Celebrity Love Island and he seemed happy enough. He was incredibly talented but football's changed. The top young players are much more disciplined now and you can trust them more. And the fact that Ronaldo and Rooney cost £12m and £30m means they have to be treated differently. They seem older than they actually are . . ."
Giggs' allegiance to United runs so deep that it seems bizarre to recall those old rumours every season that he was bound for Italy. In fact the only moment of hesitancy came earlier this year, when United were reluctant to shift from their policy of never offering a player over 30 more than a year-long contract. "That disappointed me at the time. I had pushed the boat out by asking for three more years - but in the end we settled on two and that only took a couple of meetings."
Rio Ferdinand's contractual demands, instead, rumbled on for months. "It wasn't a great thing to have hanging over our heads, with the fans booing him, so I'm glad it's over. I was never sure if it was really about money but friends who've known me a long time would ring up and say, 'Is it true what Rio wants?' I didn't know but I understood their reaction. When they read what Rio's making a week they'd say, '****, I won't earn that in three or four years.'"
Giggs also sympathised with United supporters during the trauma of Malcolm Glazer's takeover. "You understand their concern. Fans are passionate and they feel something's happening which is not for the good of their team. My gut-reaction was that it would never happen - [Glazer] was just too far away - but of course I was wrong."
Avoiding any criticism of Glazer, Giggs highlights instead the limited focus of Premiership footballers. "It's weird. We're right in the middle of it but we don't really think about it. We met [Glazer's sons] in pre-season in Portugal but we just said hello. The players hardly ever talk about it. They're too busy taking the piss out of each other's clothes and haircuts."
Giggs rolls his eyes at the suggestion that, while Chelsea grow stronger and United feel the effects of a dubious American takeover, the empty sound of designer chit-chat must be slowly driving Roy Keane mad. "He's never been into that gear and so he has a go at everyone else. Keaney can seem really angry but I kid him that he just doesn't look as smart as everyone else. But he's so determined, and if he sees anyone slacking off then he lets them know."
Yet the spine of United's team is undoubtedly ageing and changing - a fact acknowledged by Giggs. "The gaffer has always tried to retain a nucleus of players but it's getting harder. We've no longer got that nucleus of 10 or more who've been together a long time. Phil Neville's gone, Butt went the year before and Beckham the season before that. But the new boys like Rooney and Ronaldo are big players. It just takes time to gel and last season we didn't have our usual consistency."
United might have a game in hand but they already trail Chelsea by five points. They cannot afford to lose any more ground even at this early stage of the season - and playing Liverpool away will reveal much about the seriousness of their challenge. "We need everyone to perform every match to keep up with Chelsea," Giggs asserts, his determination to feature prominently in United's resurgence as fierce as that driving the more obviously combustible Keane and Ferguson. "We've run out of excuses. It's time to perform again and win match after match like we used to do - season after season."
Giggs: The Autobiography, by Ryan Giggs with Joe Lovejoy, is published by M Joseph at £18.99. To order a copy with free UK p&p go to guardian.co.uk/bookshop or call the Guardian book service: 0870 836 0875
http://football.guardian.co.uk/News_Story/0,1563,1568468,00.html
ericstarkid
Reserve Team
good read from Giggsy
- Status