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[OFFICIAL] Operation Iraqi Freedom - Conflict in Iraq

rhizome17

Fan Favourite
Ha

David Kay has resigned from the WMD search team saying he believes there is nothing to be found.

His replacement says the same thing :| and he hasn't even started looking :|

Maybe the people who believed there WMD can finally wake up and realise they were wrong. NOTHING. ZILCH. ZERO.

Bush lied and people died. End of story.

Heck, they don't even want the Iraqis to have their own elections now, preferring 'appointees' to form the government, and gee I wonder who appoints them.
 

Elder

Starting XI
Originally posted by JTNY
If in the small chance a democrat was elected would they pursue the "War on Terror" campaign, and continue the massive military spending? It would be difficult to suddenly call an abrupt halt to the campaign, no matter how opposed to it you are... but then spin doctors and speech writers could use terms like, "danger averted"... "scaling down".... "remain wary":rolleyes:.






Though, unless I am mistaken, don't many Democrat candidates support the War on Terror? Especially seeing some are military affiliated, ie. Wesley Clark?

When it comes to National Security, the Democrats are woefully inept. The war on terror for democrats is arresting "terrorists" and puting them in jail. If you want a history lesson on why the world is in the place it is now, just look at how Bill Clinton handled anything related to terrorism. He did nothing....

Are the democrats for the war on terror? Not if it cuts into their government spending, vote buying, trust fund kitty. Wesley Clark is a Republican who knew he couldn't beat Bush in a Republican Primary, so he became a democrat. I don't think he even knows what side of anything he is on, and just remember he was fired by Clinton, and his own superiors already said they wouldn't vote for him because of "character issues."
 

USA Supporter

Reserve Team
Originally posted by Elder
When it comes to National Security, the Democrats are woefully inept. The war on terror for democrats is arresting "terrorists" and puting them in jail. If you want a history lesson on why the world is in the place it is now, just look at how Bill Clinton handled anything related to terrorism. He did nothing....

Are the democrats for the war on terror? Not if it cuts into their government spending, vote buying, trust fund kitty. Wesley Clark is a Republican who knew he couldn't beat Bush in a Republican Primary, so he became a democrat. I don't think he even knows what side of anything he is on, and just remember he was fired by Clinton, and his own superiors already said they wouldn't vote for him because of "character issues."

When terrorists blew up two US embassies in Africa, resulting in the death of over 200 people, all Clinton did was launch some missiles and then forget about it.

Democrats supported the war on terror (what happened in Afghanistan) but almost every American did. I don't think many people were opposed to going after al Qaeda after 9/11.

Wesley Clark is pretty much a Republican running as a Democrat, which is why it surprises me that someone like Michael Moore would endorse him. Clark is only running in the Democratic primary because there is no Republican primary since Bush is president.
 

Elder

Starting XI
Originally posted by USA Supporter
When terrorists blew up two US embassies in Africa, resulting in the death of over 200 people, all Clinton did was launch some missiles and then forget about it.

Democrats supported the war on terror (what happened in Afghanistan) but almost every American did. I don't think many people were opposed to going after al Qaeda after 9/11.

Wesley Clark is pretty much a Republican running as a Democrat, which is why it surprises me that someone like Michael Moore would endorse him. Clark is only running in the Democratic primary because there is no Republican primary since Bush is president.

And wasn't it funny that he launched those missles on the same day as the Monica Lewinsky testimony or something like that?

But you are right, the demo's did vote for Afghanistan, but only because they really had to. Just remember that the Dems were swept aside in the off year elections by Republicans, and mainly because of the issue of national security. And tax cuts, and being too far left for most voters... Too bad they didn't learn their lesson.
 

rhizome17

Fan Favourite
Even funnier is a national security policy that involves the invasion of a country crippled by ten years of economic sanctions and without any military capability to write home about, and no weapons of mass destruction that could be used against the USA.

(Y) yeah, if US intelligence suggested the presence of WMD in Iraq, then the intelligence is pretty lame. Never to be trusted as long as the incumbents are there. Heck, no way the orange alerts can be believed.
 

Elder

Starting XI
Originally posted by rhizome17
Even funnier is a national security policy that involves the invasion of a country crippled by ten years of economic sanctions and without any military capability to write home about, and no weapons of mass destruction that could be used against the USA.

(Y) yeah, if US intelligence suggested the presence of WMD in Iraq, then the intelligence is pretty lame. Never to be trusted as long as the incumbents are there. Heck, no way the orange alerts can be believed.


As usual witht he "crippled by ten years of economic sanctions" argument, you fail to point out why...

But Saddam, as usual, get the pass when it comes to invading other countries. It's the USA's fault for sanctions right? Right!
 

rhizome17

Fan Favourite
It is obvious why the sanctions were imposed - because UN weapons inspectors were inhibited from doing their job in the 90's. Whenever France and Germany tried to get them removed once reports came in about how many people were dying as a result of the sanctions (and to get their contracts - one cannot be mentioned without the other) the US used their veto on the UN security council to maintain them.

But fact remains, UN inspectors felt they were given fair enough access in the months preceding war, and fact remains no WMD have been found.

And the fact remains, Iraq was not a threat.
 

Elder

Starting XI
Originally posted by rhizome17
It is obvious why the sanctions were imposed - because UN weapons inspectors were inhibited from doing their job in the 90's. Whenever France and Germany tried to get them removed once reports came in about how many people were dying as a result of the sanctions (and to get their contracts - one cannot be mentioned without the other) the US used their veto on the UN security council to maintain them.

But fact remains, UN inspectors felt they were given fair enough access in the months preceding war, and fact remains no WMD have been found.

And the fact remains, Iraq was not a threat.

You know, I've come to view this whole thing as one big grey area. We can go back and forth on what facts there are, why the US invaded, and things of this nature... but in the end I think it really came down 9/11, and the way the US government completely changed after that day.

I can say that the CIA intelligence, and whatever other intelligence from around the world seems to be fatally flawed. But you have to ask yourself, if you were the President after 9/11, do you just ignore it and take the chance, or do you go ahead and risk your political future?

I don't know if I could make that choice, or anybody else on this board for that matter. But if the CIA was so wrong about this, why haven't heads been chopped off over there? That is what I am more mad about to be honest. The President goes with what he is given as information...

Either way, he went with what he thought was right, and I bet history judges him better than we ever can.

But I still blame Saddam for the sanctions, not the US.
 

rhizome17

Fan Favourite
History will judge him on what happens after the US pull out.

If Iraq miraculously becomes a stable democracy, the WMD issue will go away, except for Blair where the UK press is much more efficient at pursuing their leaders lies.

Why haven't heads rolled at the CIA? Well a number of them have spoken out about how Cheney would encourage the editing of intelligence to fit his regimes needs. I actually wouldn't be surprised if the 'real' intelliegence all along pointed out that Iraq was not a threat, hints of which have been leaked out, and that more have not spoken out for fear of falling foul of this administration who are not scared to use bullying tatics against those who have an alternative viewpoint.
9/11 was the point that changed the US worldview in the mainstream, but this bunch of cowboys had their minds set on getting into Iraq a long time ago. 9/11 was the implicit pretext, WMD were the explicit reason given, and a foothold in the middle east was the driving force.
If 9/11 had not of happened, Iraq would have been invaded anyway. Like Wolfowitz said, WMD issue were just a bureaucratic decision anyway. Influence and control in the middle east are the primary motivation.
 

JTNY

Starting XI
Not just for supermacy in the gulf, but to get a foot in on oil and gas reserves. Another conspiratorial claim, that Cheney had a report done that at the current rate, global fossil fuel deposits will be exhausted - answer, get into Afghanistan and Iraq, gives a stronghold in the two fossil fuel rich regions, who knows, Far West China might become "terrorists" too.(H)

Wesley Clark, he was a part of the NATO bombings in Kosovo wasn't he?
 

rhizome17

Fan Favourite
Originally posted by JTNY
Well the "stan" countries are not quite middle east.(H)

Well, how about East Middle East then (H)

Anyway, anyone else heard Colin Powell... basically saying that Iraq may not have had WMD... gee, he was quoting numbers and stuff when he briefed the UN a year ago... how things change...

Now he is saying that Iraq was invaded for failing to disclose what WMD they had.

Which, roughly translated, means that Iraq was invaded for failing to disclose that they did not possess WMD.

:| :| :|

Nice one, USA (Y)
 

JTNY

Starting XI
When WMD supposedly existed it was all over the news here in Australia.

No that they do not, you do not see the speeches from Mr. Powell anymore.

Convenient.:hump:
 

?uestlove

Youth Team
Elder,

Mr Powell has conceded that there may be no WMD before the war. This just after Dr. kay resigned and stated his reason, after Mr O'neil made public his own observations. What more do you need to convince you that Bush sweetedned up the Iraq dossier to convince Americans of his threat? Regardless of the possibilities put forth by the pro-war camp, it is becoming ever clear that the war was prosecuted for reasons other than those given. It fails to stand reason.

As for the Israeli-Palestinians issue, you only have to ask yourself, if given only these two options - be either a Palestinian or Israeli, which will you pick? Lets just agree that we disagree.

When things become clearer to you perhaps you may wish to swallow your words.
 

rhizome17

Fan Favourite
The 50 lies, exaggerations, distortions and half truths that took this country to war
25 January 2004

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/politics/story.jsp?story=484504
Whatever the outcome of the Hutton inquiry and the vote on top-up fees, the central charge this paper has consistently made against Tony Blair is that he took this country to war in Iraq on a false pretext. Raymond Whitaker and Glen Rangwala list 50 statements on which history will judge him and his US partners.

1 Tonight, British servicemen and women are engaged from air, land and sea. Their mission: to remove Saddam Hussein from power, and disarm Iraq of its weapons of mass destruction.

Tony Blair, televised address to the nation, 20 March 2003

2 I have always said to people throughout that ... our aim has been the elimination of weapons of mass destruction.

Tony Blair, press conference, 25 March 2003

Within days, Mr Blair contradicts himself about the aims of the war.

3 But for this military action, Saddam Hussein and his sons would still be in absolute control ... free to continue the repression and butchery of their people which ... we now know was on such a savage scale that victims number hundreds of thousands.

Tony Blair, article in 'News of the World', 16 November 2003

"Regime change" again becomes a central justification of the conflict.

4 You know how passionately I believed in this cause and in the wisdom of the conflict as the only way to establish long-time peace and stability.

Tony Blair to British troops in Iraq, 4 January 2004

No mention of WMD was made on this trip. But with Saddam now in custody and the insurgency in Iraq showing no sign of abating, the PM finds a new reason for the war.

5 As for the existence of Iraq's weapons of mass destruction, there can be no doubt ... that those weapons existed. It is the job of the Iraq Survey Group to find out what has happened, which it will do.

Tony Blair, House of Commons, 21 January 2004

Mr Blair uses lawyer's language, ignoring Iraq's claim that the weapons existed, but were destroyed more than a decade ago. His next sentence implicitly acknowledges WMD may never be found.

6 For reasons that have a lot to do with the US government bureaucracy, we settled on the one issue everyone could agree on, which was weapons of mass destruction...

Paul Wolfowitz, US deputy defence secretary, 'Vanity Fair', June 2003

The Bush administration made no secret of its desire for "regime change". Some were ready to admit that WMD was a red herring.

7 We know that he has stockpiles of major amounts of chemical and biological weapons.

Tony Blair, NBC TV, 3 April 2002

From early 2002, the PM began to stress claims that Iraq had WMD left over from before the 1991 war, without saying that most agents would have deteriorated to the point of uselessness.

8 Iraq poses a threat to the world because of its manufacture and development of weapons of mass destruction.

Carlos Straw, interview with David Frost, 24 March 2002

Claims that Iraq was still producing chemical and biological weapons were prominent, though UN inspectors hadn't found any production of banned weapons after 1991.

9 It [the dossier] concludes that Iraq has chemical and biological weapons, that Saddam has continued to produce them, that he has existing and active military plans for the use of chemical and biological weapons, which could be activated within 45 minutes ... and that he is actively trying to acquire nuclear weapons capability.

Tony Blair to the House of Commons, 24 September 2002

No such weapons were found in place once the invasion began.

10 I have absolutely no doubt whatever that he was trying to reconstitute weapons of mass destruction programmes. ... [Saddam Hussein] has always been intending to develop these weapons.

Tony Blair to the Commons Liaison Committee, 8 July 2003

Mr Blair switched to claims about weapons "programmes" and Saddam's intentions. No further mention of weapons "existing".

*************follow the link for the rest*************
 

Luis Ah-Hoy

Senior Squad
I wonder how can some people think of Bush as a decent man.... :rolleyes: just because he acts and speaks like one....

but when it comes to big decisons, he shows all of his weakness and indecency.... well, he, his staff and his allies can convince many, but many other aren't fools or naives to go along your well-elaborated speechs and your decent way to walk the dog and grab your wife's hand..... :boohoo:

I just hope a leader with diferent thoughts, who's not linked with any kind of dubious and powerful interests, with more sensibility, intelligence and sense.... US people deserve it.... :) as for the rest of the world......
 

rhizome17

Fan Favourite
Originally posted by Luis Ah-Hoy


I just hope a leader with diferent thoughts, who's not linked with any kind of dubious and powerful interests,

Unfortunately, I think this goes hand-in-hand with politics in the US, and most other places as well...
 


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