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[OFFICIAL] Operation Iraqi Freedom - Conflict in Iraq

Elder

Starting XI
Originally posted by ?uestlove
Elder,

Mr Powell has conceded that there may be no WMD before the war. This just after Dr. kay resigned and stated his reason, after Mr O'neil made public his own observations. What more do you need to convince you that Bush sweetedned up the Iraq dossier to convince Americans of his threat? Regardless of the possibilities put forth by the pro-war camp, it is becoming ever clear that the war was prosecuted for reasons other than those given. It fails to stand reason.

As for the Israeli-Palestinians issue, you only have to ask yourself, if given only these two options - be either a Palestinian or Israeli, which will you pick? Lets just agree that we disagree.

When things become clearer to you perhaps you may wish to swallow your words.

Swallow what words? There is a big difference between going to war on faulty intelligence and "lying" about why you went to war. You can't know the intelligence is faulty until you get in there and figure it out first hand.

But that's beyond your thought process I'm sure.

What side do I take in Israel and "Palestine"? I say let them wipe each other out and be done with it once and for all. I am sick of hearing about the "poor" and "innocent" palestians. If they wanted peace, they could have it. **** them.
 

rhizome17

Fan Favourite
Originally posted by Elder
Swallow what words? There is a big difference between going to war on faulty intelligence and "lying" about why you went to war. You can't know the intelligence is faulty until you get in there and figure it out first hand.

Oh come on, do you really think that is the strategy for a successful foreign policy? If that is the way to do things, then why bother trying to come up with any intelligence at all?

It is even a moot point whether there was an intelliegence failure or not. Several in the CIA have said that their intelligence was misused and misquoted, and 8000 pages were 'edited' from the 11000 page document by the US when they seized the Blix report before the war. So we don't know what the overall report said.

If you 'selectively' leave out particular information that contradicts your argument, as it has been proven that Cheney and Bush and others have done, it is a serious deception.

Arguing over whether it was lying is a waste of time. There was an attempt to knowingly deceive.

Why trust the US again?
 

Elder

Starting XI
Originally posted by rhizome17
Oh come on, do you really think that is the strategy for a successful foreign policy? If that is the way to do things, then why bother trying to come up with any intelligence at all?

It is even a moot point whether there was an intelliegence failure or not. Several in the CIA have said that their intelligence was misused and misquoted, and 8000 pages were 'edited' from the 11000 page document by the US when they seized the Blix report before the war. So we don't know what the overall report said.

If you 'selectively' leave out particular information that contradicts your argument, as it has been proven that Cheney and Bush and others have done, it is a serious deception.

Arguing over whether it was lying is a waste of time. There was an attempt to knowingly deceive.

Why trust the US again?

Sorry, but I still haven't seen the evidence that Bush or Cheney manipulated anything. Now if they did and it can be proven, then put them in jail. But the problem is that so many people hate Bush and Cheney, that they come up with so many stories and conspiracy theories it just becomes silly.

BUT, I will say, that because of this CIA bull**** and there probably being no WMD, then the US has lost credibility and shouldn't be trusted the next time something like this comes up.

It makes me sick that nothing has happened to anyone in the CIA. But David Kay said today that Saddam was still in violation of resolution 1441, which called for war if he was.
 

rhizome17

Fan Favourite
CIA Probe Finds Secret Pentagon Group Manipulated Intelligence on Iraqi Threat
by Jason Leopold
July 25, 2003

A half-dozen former CIA agents investigating prewar intelligence have found that a secret Pentagon committee, set up by Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld in October 2001, manipulated reams of intelligence information prepared by the spy agency on the so-called Iraqi threat and then delivered it to top White House officials who used it to win support for a war in Iraq.

The former CIA agents were asked to examine prewar intelligence last year by Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld and CIA Director George Tenet. The former agents will present a final report on their findings to the Pentagon, the CIA and possibly the Senate and/or Congress later this year.

More than a dozen calls to the White House, the CIA, the National Security Council and the Pentagon for comment were not returned.

The ad-hoc committee, called the Office of Special Plans, headed by Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz, Undersecretary of Defense for Policy Douglas Feith and other Pentagon hawks, described the worst-case scenarios in terms of Iraq's alleged stockpile of chemical and biological weapons and claimed the country was close to acquiring nuclear weapons, according to four of the CIA agents, speaking on the condition of anonymity because the information is still classified, who conducted a preliminary view of the intelligence.

The agents said the Office of Special Plans is responsible for providing the National Security Council and Vice President Dick Cheney, National Security Adviser Condoleeza Rice and Rumsfeld with a bulk of the intelligence information on Iraq's weapons program that turned out to be wrong. But White House officials used the information it received from the Office of Special Plans to win support from the public and Congress to start a war in Iraq even though the White House knew much of the information was dubious, the CIA agents said.

For example, the agents said the Office of Special Plans told the National Security Council last year that Iraq's attempt to purchase aluminum tubes were part of a clandestine program to build an atomic bomb. The Office of Special Plans leaked the information to the New York Times last September. Shortly after the story appeared in the paper, Bush and Rice both pointed to the story as evidence that Iraq posed a grave threat to the United States and to its neighbors in the Middle East, even though experts in the field of nuclear science, the CIA and the State Department advised the White House that the aluminum tubes were not designed for an atomic bomb.

Furthermore, the CIA had been unable to develop any links between Iraq and the terrorist group al-Qaeda. But under Feith's direction, the Office of Special Plans came up with information of such links by looking at existing intelligence reports that they felt might have been overlooked or undervalued. The Special Plans office provided the information to the Pentagon and to the White House. During a Pentagon briefing last year, Rumsfeld said he had "bulletproof" evidence that Iraq was harboring al-Qaeda terrorists.

At a Pentagon news conference last year, Rumsfeld said of the intelligence gathered by Special Plans: "Gee, why don't you go over and brief George Tenet? So they did. They went over and briefed the CIA. So there's no there's no mystery about all this."

CIA analysts listened to the Pentagon team, nodded politely, and said, "Thank you very much," said one government official, according to a July 20, report in the New York Times. That official said the briefing did not change the agency's reporting or analysis in any substantial way.

Several current and former intelligence officials told the Times that they felt pressure to tailor reports to conform to the administration's views, "particularly the theories Feith's group developed."

Moreover, the agents said the Office of Special Plans routinely rewrote the CIA's intelligence estimates on Iraq's weapons programs, removing caveats such as "likely," "probably" and "may" as a way of depicting the country as an imminent threat. The agents would not identify the names of the individuals at the Office of Special Plans who were responsible for providing the White House with the wrong intelligence. But, the agents said, the intelligence gathered by the committee sometimes went directly to the White House, Cheney's office and to Rice without first being vetted by the CIA.

In cases where the CIA's intelligence wasn't rewritten the Office of Special Plans provided the White House with questionable intelligence it gathered from Iraqi exiles from the Iraqi National Congress, a group headed by Ahmad Chalabi, a person whom the CIA has publicly said is unreliable, the CIA agents said.

More than a dozen CIA agents responsible for writing intelligence reports for the agency told the former CIA agents investigating the accuracy of the intelligence reports said they were pressured by the Pentagon and the Office of Special Plans to hype an exaggerate intelligence to show Iraq as being an imminent threat to the security of the U.S.

The White House has been dogged by questions for nearly a month on whether the intelligence information it had relied upon was accurate and whether top White House officials knowingly used unreliable information to build a case for war. The furor started when President Bush said in his January State of the Union address that Iraq had tried to purchase uranium ore from Africa. Bush credited British intelligence for the claims, but the intelligence was based on forged documents. The Office of Special Plans is responsible for advising the White House to allow Bush to use the uranium claims in his speech, according to Democratic Senators and a CIA agent who are privy to classified information surrounding the issue.

CIA Director George Tenet took responsibility last week for allowing Bush to cite the information, despite the fact that he had warned the Rice's office that the claims were likely wrong. Earlier this week, Stephen Hadley, an aide to Rice, said he received two memos from the CIA last year and before Bush's State of the Union address alerting him to the fact that the uranium information should not be included in the State of the Union address. Hadley, who also took responsibility for failing to remove the uranium reference from Bush's speech, said he forgot to advise the President about the CIA's warnings.

Hawks in the White House and the Pentagon seized upon the uranium claims before and after Bush's State of the Union address, telling reporters, lawmakers and leaders of other nations that the only thing that can be done to disarm Saddam Hussein is a preemptive strike against his country.

The only White House official who didn't cite the uranium claim is Secretary of State Colin Powell. According to Greg Thielmann, who resigned last year from the State Department's Bureau of Intelligence and Research- whose duties included tracking Iraq's weapons of mass destruction programs - he personally told Powell that the allegations were "implausible" and the intelligence it was based upon was a "stupid piece of garbage."

Patrick Lang, the former head of worldwide human intelligence gathering for the Defense Intelligence Agency, which coordinates military intelligence, said the Office of Special Plans "cherry-picked the intelligence stream" in a bid to portray Iraq as an imminent threat. Lang said in interviews with several media outlets that the CIA had "no guts at all" to resist the allegedly deliberate skewing of intelligence by a Pentagon that he said was now dominating U.S. foreign policy.

Vince Cannistraro, a former chief of CIA counter-terrorist operations, said he has spoken to a number of working intelligence officers who blame the Pentagon for playing up "fraudulent" intelligence, "a lot of it sourced from the Iraqi National Congress of Ahmad Chalabi."

In an October 11, 2002 report in the Los Angeles Times, several CIA agents "who brief Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz on Iraq routinely return to the agency with a long list of complaints and demands for new analysis or shifts in emphasis."

"There is a lot of unhappiness with the analysis," usually because it is seen as not hard-line enough, one intelligence official said, according to the paper.

Another government official said CIA agents "are constantly sent back by the senior people at Defense and other places to get more, get more, get more to make their case," the paper reported

Now, as U.S. military casualties have surpassed that of the first Gulf War, Democrats in Congress and the Senate are starting to question whether other information about the Iraqi threat cited by Bush and his staff was reliable or part of a coordinated effort by the White House to politicize the intelligence to win support for a war.

The Senate Select Committee on Intelligence is investigating the issue but so far neither the Senate intelligence committee nor any Congressional committee has launched an investigation into the Office of Special Plans. But that may soon change.

Based on several news reports into the activities of the Office of Special Plans, a number of lawmakers have called for an investigation into the group. Congresswoman Ellen Tauscher, D-California, who sits on the House Armed Services Committee, wrote a letter July 9 to Congressman Duncan Hunter, R-California, chairman of the Armed Services committee, calling for an investigation into the Office of Special Plans.

The Office of Special Plans should be examined to determine whether it "complemented, competed with, or detracted from the role of other United States intelligence agencies respecting the collection and use of intelligence relating to Iraqi weapons of mass destruction and war planning. I also think it is important to understand how having two intelligence agencies within the Pentagon impacted the Department of Defense's ability to focus the necessary resources and manpower on pre-war planning and post-war operations," Tauscher's letter said.

Congressman David Obey, D-Wisconsin, also called for a widespread investigation of the Office of Special Plans to find out whether there is any truth to the claims that it willfully manipulated intelligence on the Iraqi threat. During a Congressional briefing July 8, Obey described what he knew about Special Plans and why an investigation into the group is crucial.

"A group of civilian employees in the Office of the Secretary of Defense, all of whom are political employees have long been dissatisfied with the information produced by the established intelligence agencies both inside and outside the Department. That was particularly true, apparently, with respect to the situation in Iraq," Obey said. "As a result, it is reported that they established a special operation within the Office of the Secretary of Defense, which was named the Office of Special Plans. That office was charged with collecting, vetting, and disseminating intelligence completely outside the normal intelligence apparatus. In fact, it appears that the information collected by this office was in some instances not even shared with the established intelligence agencies and in numerous instances was passed on to the National Security Council and the President without having been vetted with anyone other than (the Secretary of Defense)."

"It is further alleged that the purpose of this operation was not only to produce intelligence more in keeping with the pre-held views of those individuals, but to intimidate analysts in the established intelligence organizations to produce information that was more supportive of policy decisions which they had already decided to propose."
 

Elder

Starting XI
I found this article quite interesting... Taken from the Washington Times website. Doesn't surprise me at all...

"Iraqi govt. papers: Saddam bribed Chirac



BAGHDAD, Iraq, Jan. 28 (UPI) -- Documents from Saddam Hussein's oil ministry reveal he used oil to bribe top French officials into opposing the imminent U.S.-led invasion of Iraq.

The oil ministry papers, described by the independent Baghdad newspaper al-Mada, are apparently authentic and will become the basis of an official investigation by the new Iraqi Governing Council, the Independent reported Wednesday.

"I think the list is true," Naseer Chaderji, a governing council member, said. "I will demand an investigation. These people must be prosecuted."

Such evidence would undermine the French position before the war when President Jacques Chirac sought to couch his opposition to the invasion on a moral high ground.

A senior Bush administration official said Washington was aware of the reports but refused further comment.

French diplomats have dismissed any suggestion their foreign policy was influenced by payments from Saddam, but some European diplomats have long suspected France's steadfast opposition to the war was less moral than monetary.

"Oil runs thicker than blood," is how one former ambassador put his suspicions about the French motives for opposing action against Saddam.

Al-Mada's list cites a total of 46 individuals, companies and organizations inside and outside Iraq as receiving Saddam's oil bribes, including officials in Egypt, Jordan, Syria, the United Arab Emirates, Turkey, Sudan, China, Austria and France, as well as the Russian Orthodox Church, the Russian Communist Party, India's Congress Party and the Palestine Liberation Organization."
 

JTNY

Starting XI
Originally posted by Elder
Swallow what words? There is a big difference between going to war on faulty intelligence and "lying" about why you went to war. You can't know the intelligence is faulty until you get in there and figure it out first hand.

But that's beyond your thought process I'm sure.

What side do I take in Israel and "Palestine"? I say let them wipe each other out and be done with it once and for all. I am sick of hearing about the "poor" and "innocent" palestians. If they wanted peace, they could have it. **** them.

Got to agree with you to an extent. Both groups both have ancient/religious claims to the land. Sure the Palestinians got screwed 50 years ago and sure the Jews are defending "thier land" but that is no need to blow each other up. Both sides are wrong. Both sides are guilty of killing each other. Now, Palestinian suicide bombers are not right at all by murdering innocent civilians, yet the Israelis also maime and kill civilians in their "strategic helicpoter gunship raids" and incursions into the West Bank. The Palestinian refugee camps are pits of disease and horror, as the individuals are evicted by Israel. Settlements dismantled, people killed, bla bla bla..... in the end, time will heal the wounds, might be 10 years, 50 years 150 years, but it cannot last.

Palestine could have peace.... the entire population is not repsonsile for a few splinter groups. Why should non-descript civilain Palestinians be sleign, and killed. When people are exposed to terrible conditions, terrorism is the result, the only way to prevent terrorism is by helping the Palestinians. Killing Palestinians, terrorists and the innocent, just causes more people to join these groups.

The Israeli government has just as much blood on their hands as the Palestinian terrorists. Even if the people support Arafat, and Arafat supports terrorists, Israelis support the Israeli government which has committed just as many crimes.
 

rhizome17

Fan Favourite
Originally posted by juventusita
Now, people who didn't think that Saddam had illegal weapons - you're just a moron.

So, Saddam lied about having illegal weapons, and you still believe he does not have weapons of mass destruction? Maybe they are not completed, but they will find chemical weapons.

Uh huh. Really. Seems to be otherwise now.

Originally posted by ShiftyPowers
I do think that when all is said and done we will find "weapons of mass destruction", but it will take a long time, they have some good hiding spots obviously. I don't think anyone can seriously believe that Saddam does not possess those things.

ShiftyPowers... what were you thinking...

Originally posted by Ljungberg08
Tell me something, this is just a scenario.

When it's all said and done, if the Coalition find WoMD, what would your reaction be?

Don't say "they won't", i said it's a scenario.

Can I say it now? Can I? Please? Pretty please?

Originally posted by KingPaulV
But anyway, I truly believe Saddam had or has his weapons and that the only reason he didnt use them was because perhaps he thought a better more suitable time would come later on....He's a survivalist above all and if he still has access to any of his arsenals he will use them

You were more sure than he was then...

Originally posted by V-9
I don't see no other alternative to get rid of Sadaam and his WMDs.
So weapons inspection is useless. Sadaam can hide all his WMDs by the time the inspector arrrived.
I wonder what you all will say if the Coalition find WMDs. I guess most of you will NOT believe it because the US must have planted the evident themselves.

What WMD? Where?
 

Elder

Starting XI
Originally posted by JTNY
Got to agree with you to an extent. Both groups both have ancient/religious claims to the land. Sure the Palestinians got screwed 50 years ago and sure the Jews are defending "thier land" but that is no need to blow each other up. Both sides are wrong. Both sides are guilty of killing each other. Now, Palestinian suicide bombers are not right at all by murdering innocent civilians, yet the Israelis also maime and kill civilians in their "strategic helicpoter gunship raids" and incursions into the West Bank. The Palestinian refugee camps are pits of disease and horror, as the individuals are evicted by Israel. Settlements dismantled, people killed, bla bla bla..... in the end, time will heal the wounds, might be 10 years, 50 years 150 years, but it cannot last.

Palestine could have peace.... the entire population is not repsonsile for a few splinter groups. Why should non-descript civilain Palestinians be sleign, and killed. When people are exposed to terrible conditions, terrorism is the result, the only way to prevent terrorism is by helping the Palestinians. Killing Palestinians, terrorists and the innocent, just causes more people to join these groups.

The Israeli government has just as much blood on their hands as the Palestinian terrorists. Even if the people support Arafat, and Arafat supports terrorists, Israelis support the Israeli government which has committed just as many crimes.

Agreed. Both sides are to blame.. But what is Sharon doing right now? Dismantling settlements in Gaza.. What are the Palestianians doing? Probably nothing.

They brainwash their children... try to check out some of the media they use.

I actually blame the Western media for many of the problems there. They glorify rock throwing youths, even taking them into the streets so they can get pictures of them... They don't present the facts, and give Palestinians a pass on just about everything... Hopefully it can end someday, but I don't have many hopes.
 

JTNY

Starting XI
Originally posted by Elder
Agreed. Both sides are to blame.. But what is Sharon doing right now? Dismantling settlements in Gaza.. What are the Palestianians doing? Probably nothing.

They brainwash their children... try to check out some of the media they use.

I actually blame the Western media for many of the problems there. They glorify rock throwing youths, even taking them into the streets so they can get pictures of them... They don't present the facts, and give Palestinians a pass on just about everything... Hopefully it can end someday, but I don't have many hopes.


Would you agree the Jews also brainwash their kids, and glorify the Israeli "incursions" into refugee camps full of squalor with aims of "stopping terrorism"..? Two sides to everything... usually.
 

Elder

Starting XI
Originally posted by JTNY
Would you agree the Jews also brainwash their kids, and glorify the Israeli "incursions" into refugee camps full of squalor with aims of "stopping terrorism"..? Two sides to everything... usually.

Agreed, but probably only on the far right side. From what I know of Israeli's, they don't hate the Palestinians, but have a hard time having sympathy with them when their busses and cafe's are being blown up.

I just wish the Palestinians would finally learn that nobody in the Arab world actually cares about them, and would give up this fight they cannot win. It's too bad that a people can have so much hate inside of them. But that's what religion will do to you I guess.
 

JTNY

Starting XI
Originally posted by Elder
I just wish the Palestinians would finally learn that nobody in the Arab world actually cares about them

Do you know that? The western media can report what they like, and what will sell a story best, and what generally conforms.... still in my experience of news telecasts and news services, the created image is that the Arab world does care about Palestine, and is one of the reasons why terrorist organisations have so many people ready to die, apart from the fact many of them live in squalor and do not have much to lose. I suppose you'd never the Arab world's sentiments unless lived among the populous for a while...
 

rhizome17

Fan Favourite
Well, just like the Matrix, it would seem we now have Iraq: Reloaded (which may well mean Iraq: Revolutions is in the near future). But anyway, as some of us said before this whole thing got underway, the resistance would be bigger than any 'remnants of the regime' argument that Rumsfeld etc. like to use, and with growing Shia discontent (along with strong Sunni rebellions in the 'triangle) I really can't see this sorting itself out between now and..... when are the US planning to leave? June? Hmmm, that means both SHia and Sunni rebellion groups must be extinguished in 3 months. Chances of that happening? Not much. So, will the US pull out and leave Iraq in the hands of the UN? I don't really see the point. The UN are a peacekeeping force, and in Iraq at the moment there is not a heck of alot of peace to keep. But then, how will W explain this one, if he needs to send more troops to Iraq and basically admit that the war is still going on. EIther way, the US is caught between a rock and a hard place. Pull out soon, and there is a high chance civil war is in the pipeline. Wait, and even more people will be asking about this administrations 'gameplan'.

Oh well, just as I said would happen over a year ago. :(
 

Elder

Starting XI
Originally posted by rhizome17
Well, just like the Matrix, it would seem we now have Iraq: Reloaded (which may well mean Iraq: Revolutions is in the near future). But anyway, as some of us said before this whole thing got underway, the resistance would be bigger than any 'remnants of the regime' argument that Rumsfeld etc. like to use, and with growing Shia discontent (along with strong Sunni rebellions in the 'triangle) I really can't see this sorting itself out between now and..... when are the US planning to leave? June? Hmmm, that means both SHia and Sunni rebellion groups must be extinguished in 3 months. Chances of that happening? Not much. So, will the US pull out and leave Iraq in the hands of the UN? I don't really see the point. The UN are a peacekeeping force, and in Iraq at the moment there is not a heck of alot of peace to keep. But then, how will W explain this one, if he needs to send more troops to Iraq and basically admit that the war is still going on. EIther way, the US is caught between a rock and a hard place. Pull out soon, and there is a high chance civil war is in the pipeline. Wait, and even more people will be asking about this administrations 'gameplan'.

Oh well, just as I said would happen over a year ago. :(

The US made a huge mistake by not crushing this before it got started. We have an almost PC, hands off military now... a "don't offend the Clerics" mentality that will now come back to bite them. This Cleric who has armed this militia should have been arrested months ago for the murder of that other cleric last year in Najaf.

The US needs to crush these people now... and crush them hard. And the civil war is being pushed by radical Muslims. What is with this part of the world? I don't understand these people at all.
 

monkee

Senior Squad
Originally posted by Elder
What is with this part of the world? I don't understand these people at all.
Maybe they're a bit pissed at the West invading their territory... perhaps?

It puts W in a tough spot. The easy option for him would be to pull his troops out and hope that no-one in the US notices, after all, it wouldn't be effecting Americans anymore (other than possibly terror attacks in the future) and maybe they'll forget about the situation that exists due to their war. That way he won't take a dent in the polls. Outta sight, Outta mind.

Or he does what he really has to do and leaves the forces there. You can't pull out now. It a mess created by the coalition of the willing and the bribed and they have to do everything they can to sort it out. Anything less and it's a failure.

But if he sends more troops then surely it'll be seen as Vietnam revisited by some quarters and the longer it goes on the harder it will be for W and his Goons.

ps. How do you crush the rebels if you don't know who they are? Are you happy to allow for coutless innocent Iraqi's to be killed in the attempt if it comes to that?

Agree with you that radical/extreme religious groups cause a load of trouble, but isn't Bush a bit on that side? Especially with all his talk about Evil, and God sending him to carry out these wars. lol
 

Elder

Starting XI
Originally posted by monkee
Maybe they're a bit pissed at the West invading their territory... perhaps?

It puts W in a tough spot. The easy option for him would be to pull his troops out and hope that no-one in the US notices, after all, it wouldn't be effecting Americans anymore (other than possibly terror attacks in the future) and maybe they'll forget about the situation that exists due to their war. That way he won't take a dent in the polls. Outta sight, Outta mind.

Or he does what he really has to do and leaves the forces there. You can't pull out now. It a mess created by the coalition of the willing and the bribed and they have to do everything they can to sort it out. Anything less and it's a failure.

But if he sends more troops then surely it'll be seen as Vietnam revisited by some quarters and the longer it goes on the harder it will be for W and his Goons.

ps. How do you crush the rebels if you don't know who they are? Are you happy to allow for coutless innocent Iraqi's to be killed in the attempt if it comes to that?

Agree with you that radical/extreme religious groups cause a load of trouble, but isn't Bush a bit on that side? Especially with all his talk about Evil, and God sending him to carry out these wars. lol

Um, being pissed off is a reason to dismember and string up bodies on a bridge. The US was pissed about 9/11, but you would never see US citizens doing such things. They are barbarians who have no place in this world.

I do agree about the "evil" talk. Sometimes when I listen to GWB, I think I am reading a comic book. The "evil doers" is the quote that comes to mind most often.

About Innoncent Iraqis being killed... Why don't those innocent Iraqis stand up against this crap and help us? And please dont' tell me it's becase Iraqi's hate the US. Poll after poll coming out of Iraq shows otherwise.
 

rhizome17

Fan Favourite
Originally posted by Elder
Um, being pissed off is a reason to dismember and string up bodies on a bridge. The US was pissed about 9/11, but you would never see US citizens doing such things. They are barbarians who have no place in this world.

I do agree about the "evil" talk. Sometimes when I listen to GWB, I think I am reading a comic book. The "evil doers" is the quote that comes to mind most often.

About Innoncent Iraqis being killed... Why don't those innocent Iraqis stand up against this crap and help us? And please dont' tell me it's becase Iraqi's hate the US. Poll after poll coming out of Iraq shows otherwise.

I would be interested in seeing any links to these 'polls', and I would be particularly interested in the methodology. So any links would be appreciated.

As for the innocent Iraqis, how can they help US troops when they are like this?:

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2004/04/285247.shtml

Would seem to me, that it is precisely BECAUSE such things occur, the US won't be getting much help anytime soon. Why are there members of the new, US-trained Iraqi army going around chanting Sadr's name?
 

Elder

Starting XI
Originally posted by rhizome17
I would be interested in seeing any links to these 'polls', and I would be particularly interested in the methodology. So any links would be appreciated.

As for the innocent Iraqis, how can they help US troops when they are like this?:

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2004/04/285247.shtml

Would seem to me, that it is precisely BECAUSE such things occur, the US won't be getting much help anytime soon. Why are there members of the new, US-trained Iraqi army going around chanting Sadr's name?

How can the innocent Iraqis help? Maybe by stopping these religous barbarians from killing innocent contractors, burning them alive, and then stringing their bodies up on a bridge. Cause and effect Rhizome, cause and effect. I should find the picture of the 10 year old Iraqi boy standing on the burnt head of a US citizen. I don't feel bad, I just don't.

I will be looking for those poll results and will post them when I can find them.
 

Elder

Starting XI
From the BBC, hardly a friend of the United States.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3514504.stm

and the link to the actual survey itself. (need acrobat)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/15_03_04_iraqsurvey.pdf


ABC News

http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/world/GoodMorningAmerica/Iraq_anniversary_poll_040314.html

Oxford Poll

http://breakingnews.iol.ie/news/story.asp?j=26474525&p=z64747yz


It's quite possible that all of these links are related, but I am not sure. The last one is very recent, while the other 2 are from March.
 

rhizome17

Fan Favourite
Originally posted by Elder
How can the innocent Iraqis help? Maybe by stopping these religous barbarians from killing innocent contractors, burning them alive, and then stringing their bodies up on a bridge. Cause and effect Rhizome, cause and effect. I should find the picture of the 10 year old Iraqi boy standing on the burnt head of a US citizen. I don't feel bad, I just don't.

I will be looking for those poll results and will post them when I can find them.

The resistance in Flujah has nothing to do with religion.

Looking at the polls now. Ta.
 


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