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The Official Manchester United Thread [2006/2007]

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U

untouchable

Senior Squad
ladylover said:
All this whining about midfielders is becoming a bit annoying!
Click to expand...
Oh I'm sorry that me showing you the reality is interfering with your fantasy and making you uncomfortable. Poor boo boo. :sleep:
 
L

ladylover

Senior Squad
untouchable said:
Oh I'm sorry that me showing you the reality is interfering with your fantasy and making you uncomfortable. Poor boo boo. :sleep:
Click to expand...

What's your problem? The reality is that we are playing good football atm. and till now we don't have any problems defending. There's no reason to panick now, that's the reality
 
U

untouchable

Senior Squad
ladylover said:
What's your problem? The reality is that we are playing good football atm. and till now we don't have any problems defending. There's no reason to panick now, that's the reality
Click to expand...
No one is panic-ing, but I'm sick of people burying their heads in the sand, making up nonsense excuses. The fact is, we were played like fools in the transfer market AGAIN, and I'm SICK OF IT. Therefore I will COMPLAIN.

I'm as happy as anyone else when we win, but I'm always cautious against getting too excited only to be disappointed.
 
U

untouchable

Senior Squad
ladylover said:
All this whining about midfielders is becoming a bit annoying! Wasn't Scholes well known because of his crunch tackles? And Pirlo isn't a deeplying playmaker, he sits in front of the defence even more often then Gatusso.
Click to expand...
Please tell me you're joking..

Scholes is known for his HORRIBLE tackling. THAT WAS MY POINT. HE'S NOT A TACKLER. You're making my point for me.

And ummm, yes, Pirlo IS a deep lying playmaker, that's why he sits in front of the defense, so he can get the ball and control the play....again you're making my point for me.

I'm done here.... :nape:
 
M

MikeyM

Big Daddy
The fact is for the last five or so years, Manchester United has been aware that they needed to make arrangements to fill the gap left by Roy Keane (a hard tackling box 2 box runner that screens the back four defenders) in that time we have had;

Juan Sebastian Veron - Undoubtedly talented, but not really suited to Premiership football or Man Utd's system of play. Or Chelsea's

Eric Djemba-Djemba - Great player in the French league, and impressive start in the pre season games but froze in Premiership battle and was shown to lack skills required, is only a sub at Aston Villa now.

Jose "Kleberson" Perreira - World Cup winner with Brazil and exactly what United needed (in his right position) Injuries and ridiculous ideas of converting him to an Attacking midfielder belayed his talent in his chosen position which was screening the back four. Kleberson was an integral part of Brazil's WC2002 victory. Was finally sold because SAF had decided "he didn't have enough attacking attributes" IMO he was poorly utilised.

Darren Fletcher - Impressive in reserves and in early appearances, but he didn't evolve his game at the rate expected. In terms of workrate and running has done well, however he is too easily knocked off the ball (could do with bulking up a bit) and has limited passing and shooting range (but allowed space and time can find the net) Not a leader in terms of the bustling Roy Keane type but has captained Scotland so there's something there. IMO He's a "good" player but of insufficiant quality to deserve a Man Utd starting position.

John O'Shea - On his day, Sheasy can turn it on and do a very good job in midfield, he has excellent defensive ability and likes to go forward too (as demonstrated on that wonderful 4-2 drubbing of Arsenal at Highbury) He's also
a big lad and has good strength on the ball.

Ryan Giggs - Giggsy can play anywhere and be world class, when he plays in the centre, his trickery and pace can still tear gaping holes through even the tightest back line, and he has excellent awareness and experience by the decade. Only question mark is longevity.

Alan Smith - A centre forward by trade, Smithy has a lot of the Roy Keane makeup about him. Fierce and unyielding in the tackle and aggressive both with opponents and team-mates alike. Obviously needs to learn the position more thoroughly but that would come in time. One thing you know about Alan, he'll give you everything he's got and then some.

Michael Carrick - Not the "Roy Keane" type of player, but a more passive - foot on the ball and pass type. Carrick posseses an excellent range of passing and has the ability to dictate the pace of a game. With his passing and the speed of United's counter attacks, Carrick should thrive at Old Trafford. People suggest that Carrick will be the long term successor to Paul Scholes.


So some were flops, others were/are promising;

But the players to do the defensive midfield role were out there, and United managed to miss all of them;

Michael Essien (Chelsea) United pursued Essien throughout 2005, Lyon were Carlos*ing the price up every month.Essien kept pleading to join, United kept bidding and the price kept rising. Then Chelsea came in, whupped the roubles on the counter and waltzed of with their prize. Essien declared his love for the blue side.

Ballack (Chelsea) United ummed and ahhed in the January window allowing Roman to whip the chequebook out and entice the German captain to Stamford Bridge.

Hargreaves (Bayern) United apparently identified Hargreaves back in November
his contract was running out and no bid was made. Hargreaves decided to resign with Munich. Then after excellent displays in the World Cup, United went back and obviously were told "no chance" yet they persisted on an ultimately fruitless pursuit anyway.

Marcos Senna - Impressive displays in the Champions League and World Cup alerted United, though 30, Senna was exactly the type of player United wanted - and he really wanted to come too. Villareal were ready to deal - but United were still with their heads up their collective asses chasing Hargreaves. Eventually an irate Villareal were left in limbo for too long and the deal was nixed.

Mahmadou Diarra - Ah yes, the Diarra saga. United made an offer to Lyon, the dollar signs flashed in their eyes and suddenly it was Essien all over again. Lyon wanted £18M - United kept trying to cop him on the cheap (Yet £18M for a £10M player in Carrick was alright?). Lyon called it all off. Then Diarra declared he wanted a Madrid move, and the auction was on. United pulled out and Diarra looked like he was staying put. Until Real Madrid snared him for .... £18M

And there are the ones we didn't bid for but could have got; But United never made moves for.

Javier Mascherano (West Ham)
Nigel Reo-Coker (West Ham)
Sulley Muntari (Udinese)
Rino Gattuso (Milan)
Pape Bouba Diop (Fulham)
Didier Zokora (Spurs)


So you can see why a lot of fans are somewhat upset with the summer's activities.



Mike
 
L

ladylover

Senior Squad
untouchable said:
No one is panic-ing, but I'm sick of people burying their heads in the sand, making up nonsense excuses. The fact is, we were played like fools in the transfer market AGAIN, and I'm SICK OF IT. Therefore I will COMPLAIN.

I'm as happy as anyone else when we win, but I'm always cautious against getting too excited only to be disappointed.
Click to expand...

No-one is panicking? Everyone is already comparing our midfielders to others'. I am not burying my head in the sand, I am commenting on what I am seeing this moment, and that is that we are not having any problems now. We are scoring a lot of goals, that's what Man U is all about not only one man will defend for the team, that's a job for the whole team on the pitch. A team is not all about DM's, last year we weren't kicked out of the CL because we were not having a DM, that was because we couldn't score a lot of goals, last year we had one of the best defences in the EPL and we scored the most goals together with Chelsea, our problem was never beating the top EPL teams, our problem was scoring against the lower teams. Carrick and Scholes will do more then a decent job in midfield. The goals we conceded till now were unlucky, because from what I have seen is that the opponents had a tough time even shooting at our goal. What we are missing is a leader and not a DM, that's the difference between having Keane and not having Keane, cause he would scare the **** out of you if you made a mistake
 
G

goal_machine84

Senior Squad
MikeyM said:
The fact is for the last five or so years, Manchester United has been aware that they needed to make arrangements to fill the gap left by Roy Keane (a hard tackling box 2 box runner that screens the back four defenders) in that time we have had;

Juan Sebastian Veron - Undoubtedly talented, but not really suited to Premiership football or Man Utd's system of play. Or Chelsea's

Eric Djemba-Djemba - Great player in the French league, and impressive start in the pre season games but froze in Premiership battle and was shown to lack skills required, is only a sub at Aston Villa now.

Jose "Kleberson" Perreira - World Cup winner with Brazil and exactly what United needed (in his right position) Injuries and ridiculous ideas of converting him to an Attacking midfielder belayed his talent in his chosen position which was screening the back four. Kleberson was an integral part of Brazil's WC2002 victory. Was finally sold because SAF had decided "he didn't have enough attacking attributes" IMO he was poorly utilised.

Darren Fletcher - Impressive in reserves and in early appearances, but he didn't evolve his game at the rate expected. In terms of workrate and running has done well, however he is too easily knocked off the ball (could do with bulking up a bit) and has limited passing and shooting range (but allowed space and time can find the net) Not a leader in terms of the bustling Roy Keane type but has captained Scotland so there's something there. IMO He's a "good" player but of insufficiant quality to deserve a Man Utd starting position.

John O'Shea - On his day, Sheasy can turn it on and do a very good job in midfield, he has excellent defensive ability and likes to go forward too (as demonstrated on that wonderful 4-2 drubbing of Arsenal at Highbury) He's also
a big lad and has good strength on the ball.

Ryan Giggs - Giggsy can play anywhere and be world class, when he plays in the centre, his trickery and pace can still tear gaping holes through even the tightest back line, and he has excellent awareness and experience by the decade. Only question mark is longevity.

Alan Smith - A centre forward by trade, Smithy has a lot of the Roy Keane makeup about him. Fierce and unyielding in the tackle and aggressive both with opponents and team-mates alike. Obviously needs to learn the position more thoroughly but that would come in time. One thing you know about Alan, he'll give you everything he's got and then some.

Michael Carrick - Not the "Roy Keane" type of player, but a more passive - foot on the ball and pass type. Carrick posseses an excellent range of passing and has the ability to dictate the pace of a game. With his passing and the speed of United's counter attacks, Carrick should thrive at Old Trafford. People suggest that Carrick will be the long term successor to Paul Scholes.


So some were flops, others were/are promising;

But the players to do the defensive midfield role were out there, and United managed to miss all of them;

Michael Essien (Chelsea) United pursued Essien throughout 2005, Lyon were Carlos*ing the price up every month.Essien kept pleading to join, United kept bidding and the price kept rising. Then Chelsea came in, whupped the roubles on the counter and waltzed of with their prize. Essien declared his love for the blue side.

Ballack (Chelsea) United ummed and ahhed in the January window allowing Roman to whip the chequebook out and entice the German captain to Stamford Bridge.

Hargreaves (Bayern) United apparently identified Hargreaves back in November
his contract was running out and no bid was made. Hargreaves decided to resign with Munich. Then after excellent displays in the World Cup, United went back and obviously were told "no chance" yet they persisted on an ultimately fruitless pursuit anyway.

Marcos Senna - Impressive displays in the Champions League and World Cup alerted United, though 30, Senna was exactly the type of player United wanted - and he really wanted to come too. Villareal were ready to deal - but United were still with their heads up their collective asses chasing Hargreaves. Eventually an irate Villareal were left in limbo for too long and the deal was nixed.

Mahmadou Diarra - Ah yes, the Diarra saga. United made an offer to Lyon, the dollar signs flashed in their eyes and suddenly it was Essien all over again. Lyon wanted £18M - United kept trying to cop him on the cheap (Yet £18M for a £10M player in Carrick was alright?). Lyon called it all off. Then Diarra declared he wanted a Madrid move, and the auction was on. United pulled out and Diarra looked like he was staying put. Until Real Madrid snared him for .... £18M

And there are the ones we didn't bid for but could have got; But United never made moves for.

Javier Mascherano (West Ham)
Nigel Reo-Coker (West Ham)
Sulley Muntari (Udinese)
Rino Gattuso (Milan)
Pape Bouba Diop (Fulham)
Didier Zokora (Spurs)


So you can see why a lot of fans are somewhat upset with the summer's activities.



Mike
Click to expand...

well said (Y)
 
B

barthez4

Senior Squad
untouchable said:
I think you guys are starting to lose it a bit. The transfer window is closed so you're trying to convince yourselves that we're fine the way we are, but we are NOT, so open your eyes and use your brain.

It's all fine and dandy that we beat up on the small clubs in the EPL with our inbalanced central midfield, but when we actually come up against a class team, we will be shown up. No matter what crap you say about "We have the best passers" or whatever, the fact is, THERE IS NO ONE DOING THE ESSENTIAL DIRTY WORK THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE. Have any one of you seen Scholes tackle well? Carrick? NO BECAUSE THEY ARE MIDFIELD PLAYMAKERS THATS WHY. IT IS NOT THEIR JOBS TO CHASE AND TACKLE. The club ****ed up BIG TIME when they canceled the Senna deal to chase after the flavor of the month Hargreaves. The fact of the matter is, O'Shea is a defender, and Carrick is a deep lying playmaker, like Pirlo. Scholes is an attacking midfield player. It is not their jobs to defend, therefore by making them defend, we are taking away from their attacking ability.

What other top club in Europe has such a friggin unbalanced midfield? Milan? NO. Barcelona? NO. Chelsea? HELL NO. Madrid? NO. So why should we be content with the bull**** we have now? Get real.
Click to expand...
Thank you.

Carrick will defend minimally. Scholes will get a bunch of yellows and a few reds. I'm not concerned about our attack, at all. The worrying thing is that the only players in a Carrick-Scholes 4-4-2 who are seriously capable of doing real defensive work (Senna, Makelele...) would be the back four. For the argument that our wingplay is great, I agree, it's obvious. But that's going forward. Our wingplay makes us very dangerous, yes, but it does nothing to stop the fact that a good team could break us down pretty much over and over. Yes, Carrick will be deep in the midfield, but that doesn't mean anything if he's not a capable defender. Scholes is known for, among other things, his crunching tackles, but they're not good tackles, and he's a dreadful defender.

As ****ty as it seems, we might have to use O'Shea in the midfield against the good clubs. I don't like the thought of Xabi Alonso or Hleb or Zokora or any other good midfielders in the EPL passing right through our midfield.

And I'm not panicing, I'm just not happy with the center of the midfield (the responsibilities, not the players - Scholes and Carrick are both class, but OFFER ALMOST NO DEFENSIVE COVER.
 
D

dubcrazy

Senior Squad
MikeyM said:
The fact is for the last five or so years, Manchester United has been aware that they needed to make arrangements to fill the gap left by Roy Keane (a hard tackling box 2 box runner that screens the back four defenders) in that time we have had;

Juan Sebastian Veron - Undoubtedly talented, but not really suited to Premiership football or Man Utd's system of play. Or Chelsea's

Eric Djemba-Djemba - Great player in the French league, and impressive start in the pre season games but froze in Premiership battle and was shown to lack skills required, is only a sub at Aston Villa now.

Jose "Kleberson" Perreira - World Cup winner with Brazil and exactly what United needed (in his right position) Injuries and ridiculous ideas of converting him to an Attacking midfielder belayed his talent in his chosen position which was screening the back four. Kleberson was an integral part of Brazil's WC2002 victory. Was finally sold because SAF had decided "he didn't have enough attacking attributes" IMO he was poorly utilised.

Darren Fletcher - Impressive in reserves and in early appearances, but he didn't evolve his game at the rate expected. In terms of workrate and running has done well, however he is too easily knocked off the ball (could do with bulking up a bit) and has limited passing and shooting range (but allowed space and time can find the net) Not a leader in terms of the bustling Roy Keane type but has captained Scotland so there's something there. IMO He's a "good" player but of insufficiant quality to deserve a Man Utd starting position.

John O'Shea - On his day, Sheasy can turn it on and do a very good job in midfield, he has excellent defensive ability and likes to go forward too (as demonstrated on that wonderful 4-2 drubbing of Arsenal at Highbury) He's also
a big lad and has good strength on the ball.

Ryan Giggs - Giggsy can play anywhere and be world class, when he plays in the centre, his trickery and pace can still tear gaping holes through even the tightest back line, and he has excellent awareness and experience by the decade. Only question mark is longevity.

Alan Smith - A centre forward by trade, Smithy has a lot of the Roy Keane makeup about him. Fierce and unyielding in the tackle and aggressive both with opponents and team-mates alike. Obviously needs to learn the position more thoroughly but that would come in time. One thing you know about Alan, he'll give you everything he's got and then some.

Michael Carrick - Not the "Roy Keane" type of player, but a more passive - foot on the ball and pass type. Carrick posseses an excellent range of passing and has the ability to dictate the pace of a game. With his passing and the speed of United's counter attacks, Carrick should thrive at Old Trafford. People suggest that Carrick will be the long term successor to Paul Scholes.


So some were flops, others were/are promising;

But the players to do the defensive midfield role were out there, and United managed to miss all of them;

Michael Essien (Chelsea) United pursued Essien throughout 2005, Lyon were Carlos*ing the price up every month.Essien kept pleading to join, United kept bidding and the price kept rising. Then Chelsea came in, whupped the roubles on the counter and waltzed of with their prize. Essien declared his love for the blue side.

Ballack (Chelsea) United ummed and ahhed in the January window allowing Roman to whip the chequebook out and entice the German captain to Stamford Bridge.

Hargreaves (Bayern) United apparently identified Hargreaves back in November
his contract was running out and no bid was made. Hargreaves decided to resign with Munich. Then after excellent displays in the World Cup, United went back and obviously were told "no chance" yet they persisted on an ultimately fruitless pursuit anyway.

Marcos Senna - Impressive displays in the Champions League and World Cup alerted United, though 30, Senna was exactly the type of player United wanted - and he really wanted to come too. Villareal were ready to deal - but United were still with their heads up their collective asses chasing Hargreaves. Eventually an irate Villareal were left in limbo for too long and the deal was nixed.

Mahmadou Diarra - Ah yes, the Diarra saga. United made an offer to Lyon, the dollar signs flashed in their eyes and suddenly it was Essien all over again. Lyon wanted £18M - United kept trying to cop him on the cheap (Yet £18M for a £10M player in Carrick was alright?). Lyon called it all off. Then Diarra declared he wanted a Madrid move, and the auction was on. United pulled out and Diarra looked like he was staying put. Until Real Madrid snared him for .... £18M

And there are the ones we didn't bid for but could have got; But United never made moves for.

Javier Mascherano (West Ham)
Nigel Reo-Coker (West Ham)
Sulley Muntari (Udinese)
Rino Gattuso (Milan)
Pape Bouba Diop (Fulham)
Didier Zokora (Spurs)


So you can see why a lot of fans are somewhat upset with the summer's activities.



Mike
Click to expand...
totally agree with your ascessment of the players spically flecther and o'shea i think if flecher bulked up he could be a useful squad player and o'shea i beleive without doubt he is a great squad player.

Another thing people are saying we need mascherano and essien and hargreves i disagrre very strongly with that,,Roy is not mascherano or makelele roy when he was able went from box to box a bit like carrick but carrick lack aggression.If carrick was a lunatic like keane then everyone would be saying what a great signing.Carrick and schole will play in the same team.

OOO and big things coming out of brazil saying that mascherano and tevez are in a rolling load deal from MSI.The I stands for investment and thats what many beleive this is a investment deal.That these 2 players stay at west ham until january and then MSI see if there value has gone up since they have played in the EPL and if not they stay there until the summer and also it is rumoured that MSI are still paying their wages.In other words this is a stunt to get a return on MSI investment
 
D

d3adly

Senior Squad
why man, the goals are flowing, and the argument here is about a dm. btw is dave jones a dm?

edit:

Two deals dominate the press: Chelsea exchanging Gallas + £5m for Arsenal's Ashley Cole; and Carlos Tevez and Javier Mascherano joining West Ham, despite Corinthians' official club website reporting they were bound for Old Trafford...

by Adam Bostock

wtf? MSI is looking for some cash.
 
S

shokz

The Red Devil
d3adly said:
MSI is looking for some cash.
Click to expand...
And they won't find any at Old Trafford, so you can forget about Tevez or Mascherano ever playing for Manchester United - unless someone is sold to pay for it. I wouldn't be surprised if Chelsea come in with a bid for Ferdinand in the next twelve months now that they look like they are lacking depth at the heart of the defence with Gallas gone, only three natural centre-backs (Terry, Carvalho and the Dutch player).

Fact is, the Gimps have spent nothing this summer, yet they will probably go on the PR offensive and claim that they supported Ferguson this summer by giving the go ahead for Carrick, when in fact, you just have to look at the net spending to realize they never contributed a single penny into buying him, because the money came from the sales of John Obi Mikel and Ruud van Nistelrooy. We're a selling club now. It's either sell or bring in no one.

Would Manchester United of been able to afford another player after signing Carrick? probably, only because of the twenty-nine players leaving the club on-loan or permanently, leaving millions in wages saved. I was amazed when I saw how many players had actually gone out, thats our entire reserve team from the last couple of seasons.

IN:

Michael Carrick (Tottenham) £14m*
Tomasz Kuszczak (W.B.A.) Loan (p/ex)

Total: £14m

OUT:

Ruud van Nistelrooy (Real Madrid) £11m
John Obi Mikel (Chelsea) £6m*
Jonathan Spector (West Ham) £500k
Sylvan Ebanks-Blake (Plymouth) £250k
David Bellion (Nice) Undisc.
Luke Steele (W.B.A.) P/Ex
Paul McShane (W.B.A.) P/Ex
Quinton Fortune (Bolton) Free
Liam Miller (Sunderland) Free
Markus Neumayr (Duisburg) Free
Mads Timm (Odense) Free
Mark Howard (Brondby) Free
Eddie Johnson (Bradford) Free
Phil Picken (Chesterfield) Free
Colin Heath (Macclesfield) Free
Tommy Lee (Macclesfield) Free
Kyle Moran (Free Agent) Released
Gerard Piqué (Zaragoza) Loan
Guiseppe Rossi (Newcastle) Loan
Chris Eagles (NEC Nijmegen) Loan
Lee Martin (Rangers) Loan
Phil Bardsley (Rangers) Loan
Tim Howard (Everton) Loan
Ben Foster (Watford) Loan
Adam Eckersley (Brondby) Loan
Jonathan Evans (Antwerp) Loan
Danny Simpson (Antwerp) Loan
Darron Gibson (Antwerp) Loan
Fraizer Campbell (Antwerp) Loan

Total: £17.75m
Net Outlay: -£3.75m

Then take into account the wage-bill now two big earners are off of it and that reserve players probably get a few thousand pounds a week.

Wages Saved:

Ruud van Nistelrooy - £8m (over the remaining two years of his contract)
Roy Keane - £5m (what he was getting)
Liam Miller - £2m (allegedly on £40,000 a week)
Reserves/Deadwood - £7m (altogether i'd say between £100,000-£150,000 a week).

Heres hoping that Jonah comes on leaps and bounds this season. :(
 
M

MikeyM

Big Daddy
VanTheMan said:
so now that the transfer window is closed, we can forget about everything.
after reading shokz's post about the ins and outs, i come to know that the supprot from the board for transfers is sh*t.

apart from that, the aftermath for this topic will continue as it is a forum for discussions and debates...
so here we go.. something that makes SENSE:

http://www.unitedrant.co.uk/archives/2006/09/liars_liars_liars.html
Click to expand...


That is an excellent site.

I wonder which United player will come back injured from the internationals? We always seem to get one. :nape:




Mike
 
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