+ The Portuguese Liga Thread +

[darth vader]

My point in posting that above is, it would be really of an hypocrite to accuse others and not one person of my club if he done something wrong too. Justice must prevail over stupid "clubites".

However, I agree with everything you said. In fact, if we use one of the basic principles in economics, that everyone acts racionally and tries to do what's best for himself, we can see that LFV would be a complete dumbass to repeatedly try to get involved in this process, because he would of, like he did, call attention to himself and get investigated by whoever is in charge of these investingations - that's the first thing they'd do, and I'm sure they did. Besides it was announced precisely yesterday Benfica will present a dossier to the police with alleged facts regarding this whole process. How stupid would that be?

Another thing, this is from a different newspaper that published the other news regarding Major Valentim. Why didn't they published the others then if they themselves supposedly had access to the developments in the process?


EDIT: Benfica has already reacted to that newspiece:
http://www.maisfutebol.iol.pt/noticia.php?id=722361&div_id=1456

yeah... and another thing is too strange: there is phone records that lead to think that benfica was robbed in 3 liga games in that precise season (nacional, boavista, and i don't remember wich is the other one). so after this they were allowed to pick the referee they wanted? that 's too strange indeed.

IMO (but it is only speculation of mine...) this could happened: LFV was furious because of the sudden change of the referee and was trying not to get one of the referee that had already robbed SLB.

but the most important here is that SLB continues to pressure the justice so the true can be known by all. no mather what happen even to SLB! the corrupts have to be all punished!

 

[INFESTA]

E prosseguiu. "Não respondo a cartas anónimas. Quero dizer que aquilo que há (na escuta) revela o estado de espírito de um homem que pugna pela transparência e rigor", disse, justificando a conversa relatada.

Depois entrou na interpretação do seu teor hoje revelado no diário. Sobre a conversa com Valentim, Vieira explicou: "Não fui eu que liguei para o major. Quando falou comigo, aquilo que fiz foi transmitir-lhe o meu descontentamento à volta de uma época desportiva do Benfica."
Link from Record.pt

Apparently he admits having that conversation in those exact terms. I hope all those who claimed he should step down don't reconsider now that he admitted it.

I already said here that anyone proven guilty of bribery and/or match fixing belongs in a prision cell, no matter his position or club.

but the most important here is that SLB continues to pressure the justice so the true can be known by all.

I couldn't figure out if you're being ironic or if you are under 14yo.

 

[darth vader]

no, i am not ironic neither under 14yo. and IF benfica have to be punished because they've cheated, that would be fair! of course i would be very sad, but that would be fair!

 

[Virgo]

Apparently he admits having that conversation in those exact terms. I hope all those who claimed he should step down don't reconsider now that he admitted it.

I already said here that anyone proven guilty of bribery and/or match fixing belongs in a prision cell, no matter his position or club.

After reading everything LFV has certainly gone a bit lower in my consideration by letting himself involved in this.

But as this apparently is a common practice that the clubs try to reach an agreement over the refs for the cup games, the only thing I ask atm is for this to be abolished for Valentim Loureiro and Pinto de Sousa to be thrown out of our football completely or else we'd have to ask to every club president and employee that ever did this to be punished.

It's suggested in the FULL transcript that all clubs have a vote on the matter. This really HAS to stop.

If this is how they see a ref is qualified to ref a match please bring back the draw. The feeling I got after reading the full transcript and the way Valentao and that other guy speak is that our football is rotten to the bone.



APPARENTLY there was a threat made to LFV about 15 days ago for him to shut up about the Apito Dourado or this transcript would be published. If that is true as well I think he made the right choice.

 

[Funky--K]

man, this is ****in sad!!!

day by day we are given NO CHANCE to believe that our teams win and loose because they are good or bad. the idea of "verdade desportiva" is fading away every ****in day...

I wish I was a kid again, and still believed it was all honest

And the press has been disgraceful. ****in coincidence that "ref phonecall" news of both Boavista and Benfica are both revealed this week...

Anyone of you is Boavista fan and can help me with find pictures of Kaźmierczak and Grzelak? I must get the pics till match against Benfica (9 september). Any kind of help would be appreciated

I pm'd you the Kazmierczak one (although it's last season's shirt)

Here's Grzelak with this season's (he'll murder Benfica tomorrow night)

 

[Tiago_10]

I find it rather amusing that Infesta only talks about this matter here after that newspiece where supposly Vieira is involved, though.

I must also say that I thought Vieira actually was involved in those organized schemes when I first read it. But the excerts from the conversation are out of context. But like I said before, you can go see it, I'm dissapointed with him. I understand he must've been furious by seeing his team getting harmed for so many time and realized it continued. But he shouldn't have called to Valentim (or the other way around, doesn't matter), like I said, even if it was to choose a fair ref, so people who's investigating should take this in consideration as well, let them judge it and justice must be made. He should be punished in some way (like I said different than Porto and Boavista and others) because it's a different offence and he actually colaborates with the police.

But it seems that was not a motive to become "arguido". Maybe because he was demanding a fair ref, not asking for favours (threatening and blackmailing as well) like other people did. I think there's a little difference. Again, I still don't consider it right, but there's defenately a difference. But still, he must be judged for this, no doubts about it.

And I can tell you this, someone is truly afraid of what he knows.

 

[Funky--K]

I
But it seems that was not a motive to become "arguido". Maybe because he was demanding a fair ref, not asking for favours (threatening and blackmailing as well) like other people did. I think there's a little difference. Again, I still don't consider it right, but there's defenately a difference. But still, he must be judged for this, no doubts about it.

dude...?

------------------------------------------
Valentim Loureiro (VL) - Eu penso que ou o Lucílio... o António Costa, esse Costa não lhe dá... não lhe dá nenhuma garantia?
LFV - A mim?! F.., o António Costa? F... Isso é tudo Porto!
VL - Exacto, pronto! (...) E o Lucílio?
LFV - Não, não me dá garantia nenhuma o Lucílio!
VL - Talvez o Lucílio, pá!
LFV - Não, não quero Lucílio nenhum!(...)
VL - E o Proença?
LFV - O Proença também não quero! Ouça, é tudo para nos f...!
VL - E o João Ferreira?
LFV - O João... Pode vir o João.
------------------------------------------

I'm sorry, all respect to you man, but I cannot agree that this is a different matter. Regardless of not including bribes or threats, this is match fixing! He's choosing the ref for his own team's game, man!


This guy is a hipocrite, that's what he is. Allways bull****in' about Apito Dourado, how the others should be investigated, and he's caught in this situation.


(oh, and Joao Ferreira is the ref on tomorrow's match the press will destroy the guy)

 

[NightCrawler]

LFV - A mim?! F.., o António Costa? F... Isso é tudo Porto!

I think Benfica's president intentions where clear according to this settence, he has every right to demand an unbiased ref, since he knew Benfica was robbed.
No one whould stand still knowing a game was fixed and I dont't think someone should be punished for demanding justice.

 

[Tiago_10]

dude...?

------------------------------------------
Valentim Loureiro (VL) - Eu penso que ou o Lucílio... o António Costa, esse Costa não lhe dá... não lhe dá nenhuma garantia?
LFV - A mim?! F.., o António Costa? F... Isso é tudo Porto!
VL - Exacto, pronto! (...) E o Lucílio?
LFV - Não, não me dá garantia nenhuma o Lucílio!
VL - Talvez o Lucílio, pá!
LFV - Não, não quero Lucílio nenhum!(...)
VL - E o Proença?
LFV - O Proença também não quero! Ouça, é tudo para nos f...!
VL - E o João Ferreira?
LFV - O João... Pode vir o João.
------------------------------------------

I'm sorry, all respect to you man, but I cannot agree that this is a different matter. Regardless of not including bribes or threats, this is match fixing! He's choosing the ref for his own team's game, man!


This guy is a hipocrite, that's what he is. Allways bull****in' about Apito Dourado, how the others should be investigated, and he's caught in this situation.


(oh, and Joao Ferreira is the ref on tomorrow's match the press will destroy the guy)

I understand your point of view. The difference I see between both, is that Vieira was trying to obtain a ref that wouldn't harm his team, but neither would harm the opponents team. But I reprove this, not the way to do it for sure, he as well should be judged I don't think I'll need to say it by the 3rd or 4th time. This is only my opinion, of course.

 

[Funky--K]

I think Benfica's president has every right to demand an unbiased ref, since he knew Benfica was robbed.
No one whould stand still knowing a game was fixed and I dont't think someone should be punished for demanding justice.

Unbiased ref? What? Joao Ferreira is more unbiased than Antonio Costa? Or Pedro Proença?

How can you consider this "demanding justice"?

It would be justice if he'd agree with the oponnent team on an unbiased ref. But that's not what he's doing. HE'S THE ONE CHOOSING THE REF!

 

[Funky--K]

I understand your point of view. The difference I see between both, is that Vieira was trying to obtain a ref that wouldn't harm his team, but neither would harm the opponents team. But I reprove this, not the way to do it for sure, he as well should be judged as well I don't think I'll need to say it by the 3rd or 4th time. This is only my opinion, of course.

man, the thing is, even if these guys get judged (which still sounds unlikely to happen) it's not going to change much... there will still be these schemes and all this bull**** around football...

 

[Tiago_10]

man, the thing is, even if these guys get judged (which still sounds unlikely to happen) it's not going to change much... there will still be these schemes and all this bull**** around football...

I agree on that, I don't even feel like watching tomorrow's match. When the stars aren't the players.. Now at every ref decision people will be in doubt.. Even if they actually are unbiased and accidental mistakes.

 

[NightCrawler]

Unbiased ref? What? Joao Ferreira is more unbiased than Antonio Costa? Or Pedro Proença?

How can you consider this "demanding justice"?

It would be justice if he'd agree with the oponnent team on an unbiased ref. But that's not what he's doing. HE'S THE ONE CHOOSING THE REF!

João Ferreira might not be the most unbiased ref in the world, he sucks IMO, the only ref I have some respect for in Portugal is Pedro Henriques... No wonder he's not a International ref, he's never (so far) in this sort of "caldinhos". Anyway... I agree with you, that's ref choosing, but as Vieira said Antonio Costa was in somekind of "deal" with Porto so he was just complaining that if Antonio Costa or Pedro Proença was chosen Benfica whould be harmed.

 

[MaSsiVe]

honestly, how can you guys still discuss this disgusting matter...
because if I actually read past the papers' headlines I might just puke.
ignorance can be a bliss

 

[Filipower]

c'mon, Vieira is as much guilty by doing that as the other guys who chose the refs..

 

[Johnny_Big]

This case will go on and on just like Casa Pia's one, and we will wait around 30 years to found all the sh*t those that were once in command have done.

 

[Virgo]

It would be justice if he'd agree with the oponnent team on an unbiased ref. But that's not what he's doing. HE'S THE ONE CHOOSING THE REF!

1 - that's not how it should be done.

2 - if you read the whole particle and not just the convenient sensasionalistic bits you'd realise that's what's been done, supposedly with Valentao mediating the choice of the refs for the cup games.

 

[MaSsiVe]

Segundo o Sportugal.pt, António Pragal Colaço, advogado de Jacinto Paixão, vai avançar com um processo contra Pinto da Costa por este ter atentado ao bom nome de Paixão, insinuando que o ex-árbitro era homossexual.

É conhecida a história que envolveu Jacinto Paixão e o FC Porto. O árbitro envolvido no processo “Apito Dourado” foi acusado de ter favorecido os dragões no jogo frente ao Estrela da Amadora disputado a 24 de Janeiro de 2004, a contar para a Liga. O processo acabou por ser arquivado pelo Ministério Público (MP) e eventualmente acabou esquecido nas prateleiras do DIAP (Departamento de Investigação e Acção Penal).

A acusação afirma que o FC Porto, na pessoa do seu presidente, pagou, alegadamente, serviços sexuais prestados por prostitutas aos árbitro do encontro. Pinto da Costa alega que “o FC Porto nunca subsidiou prostitutas para árbitros”, e que neste caso seria impensável isso acontecer, pois “corria [o boato] no mundo futebolístico que ele [Jacinto Paixão] seria homossexual”.

Ao seu estilo, o presidente portista acrescenta ainda que considera Jacinto Paixão “um mau árbitro” e que “não beneficiou em absolutamente nada” o FC Porto nessa partida. “Fomos mesmo mais prejudicados pelas suas asneiras”, comentou.

:funny:

 

[INFESTA]

I find it rather amusing that Infesta only talks about this matter here after that newspiece where supposly Vieira is involved, though.

I talk when I want, and don't care what you think about it. You must be blind, though, or absent when the whole Apito Dourado incident started a couple years ago.

I'm sorry, all respect to you man, but I cannot agree that this is a different matter. Regardless of not including bribes or threats, this is match fixing! He's choosing the ref for his own team's game, man!

This guy is a hipocrite, that's what he is. Allways bull****in' about Apito Dourado, how the others should be investigated, and he's caught in this situation.

(oh, and Joao Ferreira is the ref on tomorrow's match the press will destroy the guy)

Good post.
This is match fixing, this is harming the spor, any way you look at it.
The context of the conversation between Vieira and Valentim was simple: they were choosing which ref should go to that match.

If chosing refs was a standard practice for top clubs then it means there are more guilty parties, not less. Vieria isn't less guilty because of it.



I don't know about you people, but I'm absolutely sick with this class of 'dirigentes' and parasites that surround our football. It's hard to trust anyone, even harder to believe our fave competition is clean.

I played in matches (in bball) where we knew in advance the ref was out against us and it totally destroyed our spirits - and we were just amateurs. I wonder how it feels when this is happening in your profession...

This whole GaloCaos incident and the Apito Dourado case is a great excuse to finally clean all the **** that suffocates our football. Unfortunately, I don't see any saviours out there. Vieira was preaching for stuff like justice and 'verdade desportiva', and this makes it even more disappointing. Lets be honest here: if PdC gets convicted there won't be a single Portista surprised; same way, I won't be surprised if all top clubs are involved - or all professional clubs for that matter - because they are all part of the system.

You know what, go back to the Looney House and bring back this guy:

 

[darth vader]

...and this f#cking saga continues

http://www.publico.clix.pt/shownews.asp?id=1269681&idCanal=95