College Basketball Thread 2007-2008

[Yossarian]

hey, guys....what's a best/worst case outlook for Hansbrough at the next level?


best= a poor man's Boozer?
worst=Araujo?

 

[ShiftyPowers]

It's really tough to say, but Mark Madsen is probably one of the better comparisons I think. I'd put it at a Rich Man's Mark Madsen for a realistic option. I don't really see him playing much like Boozer at all. He'll get a some hustle points and rebounds, but I don't see him putting up the stats. Remember Madsen was pretty damn good at Stanford, although obviously not as good as Tyler. Worst case is probably Madsen or worse.

 

[SlayerDeuS]

Nobody expected Boozer to be a 20/10 guy he was drafted in the early 2nd round. Dude beefed up like crazy though, he's an absolute beast now. With Tyler's work ethic, I can see him bulking up and being a contributer. For Tyler 15/8 might be a bit overreaching for some folks but after a few years I could see him putting those numbers up.

 

[ShiftyPowers]

I don't really see him having the athleticism of Carlos Boozer. I can't imagine why Boozer was a second rounder, but I would assume it's because he was seen as "not ready" for the NBA because Duke was dominated by guards, which is K's system. Tough to put up stats with Duhon, Williams, and Dunleavy around you.

I mean, Boozer put up 15 and 11 his second year in the league. I know it was with a bad team, but I just don't see Hansbrough putting that up ever, much less as early as Boozer did.

 

[twigsanberries]

kinda like noah on the bulls, but tyler is stronger and has a harder motor. i think he will definitely be a contributor, but the athletic/crazy ass hyper centers in the leauge don't really make it that often... you need post skills on the block, and it's kinda hard to really develop that in the pace that college games are played, unless your team plays like UCLA - slow the **** down out of the game, slow it down some more, call time out, let big L score. just kidding... but honestly, I just find it hard to believe a player whose whole career is based on hustle all of a sudden develops a killer post game. bench player, contributor, but not a star

 

[ShiftyPowers]

Good analysis, but Noah is much more athletic, and much taller than Tyler. Hansbrough will be undersized for a 4 at the next level because unlike other 6-8 PFs, he doesn't have a tremendous wingspan/standing reach, nor does he have very good athleticism. He's more athletic than Love though, but Love has a refined offensive post game (he can score with his back to the basket, Tyler looks awkward when his back is to the basket, and commits nearly all of his turnovers when he tries to back guys down and spin) and gets better position for rebounds. Love also looks much more powerful than Hansbrough is (he'll probably trounce him in the bench press) and is a superior passer.

In college these differences (except the passing) don't get highlighted or exposed because these two are still better than everyone else, but in the pros it separates starters from the bench, and the bench from the guys who can't stay in the league.

 

[Bobby]

Ok, get this.

If UNC wins the title, Quintin Thomas will become the first Carolina player in history to win two championships. Really. Quintin Thomas.

 

[twigsanberries]

Good analysis, but Noah is much more athletic, and much taller than Tyler. Hansbrough will be undersized for a 4 at the next level because unlike other 6-8 PFs, he doesn't have a tremendous wingspan/standing reach, nor does he have very good athleticism. He's more athletic than Love though, but Love has a refined offensive post game (he can score with his back to the basket, Tyler looks awkward when his back is to the basket, and commits nearly all of his turnovers when he tries to back guys down and spin) and gets better position for rebounds. Love also looks much more powerful than Hansbrough is (he'll probably trounce him in the bench press) and is a superior passer.

In college these differences (except the passing) don't get highlighted or exposed because these two are still better than everyone else, but in the pros it separates starters from the bench, and the bench from the guys who can't stay in the league.

very true. also note, being the most athletic in college means squat when getting to the pros. what will tyler do when he goes face to face with dwight howard? his activity and drive will get him a spot on a roster, but he will need more. I agree about noah though, and seeing as how I am from Chicago and follow the bulls closely, the reason he gets his time is because he is strong and long, which helps offset his goofiness. like tyler, he was good in college because he was very athletic, but if you look at him in the games, he gets his contributions by outworking his opponent, and by his length. athleticism is a far third. tyler does not have the size, as you said, to be as effective in the pros as does noah. he better develop a midrange jumper (a-la Tim Duncan). This will at least help keep defenders somewhat honest so he can drive to the rim or get some separation to try and help his team spread the floor. A PF is worthless if he can't score with his back to the basket or facing it. i doubt tyler will be able to run around the players in the pros like he does in college.

 

[ShiftyPowers]

Yeah, I was about to say... Hansbrough isn't quick enough to drive around NBA Power Forwards, but you addressed that at the end.

 

[Yossarian]

yeah, youse guys make some excellent points. I wasn't saying that he'd be anywhere near the level that Boozer is at because the Booze is on track for a HOF career barring any heinous injuries or whatever. I was just saying that this kid could be a moderately decent contributor in 2-3yrs time from now.


Regarding Boozer's draft depreciation....I mean, hindsight is clearly 20/20 now, but I really don't recall any explicit outcries about the position in which he was selected in at that time, do you? I think that he was projected to be a late first rounder/ early second from the beginning. I think that he had some ambition/motivation issues. He was also considerably overweight for his size and had poor cardiovascular fitness coming into the combines, but aside from those negatives, he measured really well (has like the wingspan of someone 3-4 inches taller than he is), his back-to-the-basket game was very solid and he was a great finisher in and around the basket.

I saw quite a bit of his games while he was at Duke and especially in their NT championship season, and I dont ever recall once going....'This Boozer kid, he's a surefire lotto pick"....I don't know why. Shifty*z has alluded to the dominance the guards have in the Duke system. Also, Williams and Dunleavy jr were having a player of the year type of seasons ....all that brouhaha surrounding the others diminished his true worth, I'd imagine.


speaking of drafts.....let's revisit the first rnd of that '02 one and readjust the rankings to the current value of those players, shall we?


1-The Yao
2-Amare
3-The Booze
4-Butler
5-The Prince
6-Dunleavy
7-Wilcox
8-Scola
9-Gordon
10-Kristic
11-Nene
12-Matt Barnes
13-The DICKaaaauuuu
14- Roger Mason


after 14, I don't think that I can come up with another qualified player worth mentioning

 

[SlayerDeuS]

Good analysis, but Noah is much more athletic, and much taller than Tyler. Hansbrough will be undersized for a 4 at the next level because unlike other 6-8 PFs, he doesn't have a tremendous wingspan/standing reach, nor does he have very good athleticism. He's more athletic than Love though, but Love has a refined offensive post game (he can score with his back to the basket, Tyler looks awkward when his back is to the basket, and commits nearly all of his turnovers when he tries to back guys down and spin) and gets better position for rebounds. Love also looks much more powerful than Hansbrough is (he'll probably trounce him in the bench press) and is a superior passer.

Love is definitely stronger in the lower body, I saw him in one tournament game and he basically sat on the guy while getting post position. He's a bear. Tyler can do that spin move though, he does travel a bit but his biggest weakness is his passing. He rarely tries to pass out of double teams and when he does it is 80% a turnover. Some fans refer to Tyler as the black hole when he gets the ball in the post because most of the time it isn't coming back out.

 

[SlayerDeuS]

Ok, get this.

If UNC wins the title, Quintin Thomas will become the first Carolina player in history to win two championships. Really. Quintin Thomas.

hahaha yes! As of a few games ago, Q has the most wins of any Tar Heel player. This has been the winningest (is that a word?) 4-year stretch in UNC history, pretty hard to believe...but in only 5 years Roy already has tied Dean Smith in # of 30-win seasons, probably more a sign of the times than anything else but still remarkable!

 

[ShiftyPowers]

Definitely a sign of the times. I think more games are scheduled now. If I recall correctly, Dean won the ACC pretty much every year, and went to the Final Four pretty much every year too (then lost). It's hard to imagine a team winning the ACC and going to the Final Four could win fewer than 30 games in this era.

That 2001 draft Yoss, man I still feel bad for Jay Williams. He could have been real good. I mean, he was probably the most talented college player I've seen since following college basketball closely.

 

[twigsanberries]

he showed flashes of brilliance. however, i watched pretty much every game of his, and he definitely did not live up to the standard of "one of the best college players ever" He played with a lack of confidence, in his drive to the basket and in his jumpshot. Granted, he was a rookie, and the bulls sucked about as much dick as Britney when she's off her meds, but I feel really bad for him. I remember the game vs New Jersey, when he absolutely DEMOLISHED jason kidd. and this is when jason was in his prime. if his pro career was going to be anything like that game, he would have been a monster. i also feel bad about how the media tore him up about his bike. it was a freak accident, and it wouldn't have mattered if he wore a helmet or not, he tore up his knee and hip. he got more scrutiny than kellen winslow jr when he ****ed himself up in that parking lot. kellen winslow was doing wheeles, he deserved what he got. then again, i don't like the guy so

 

[Yossarian]

Yeah, JayWill was by far one of the best guards that I ever saw play in college, man. He didn't have any glaring weaknesses that I can recall. Solid distributor, perimeter shooter, defender, very athletic, and most of all, he had that commanding presence on the floor that you really need from your PG.....what a pathetic and stupid way to piss away your career, man. Because he seems like a level-headed, intelligent person, you know?

Anyone know if the notoriously cheap Reinsdorf paid off the remainings of his contract? I know that he wasn't obligated to.



Who wants to bet that Hansbrough will have a better rookie year than Love? Man, Love doesn't impress me much, let alone being a high end lotto pick....say top five or whatever that the experts are projecting 'em to go.

I really wanna know what hismeasurements are....no way he's 6'10" or over. Also, the kid is obscenely flabby, man.

 

[SlayerDeuS]

I don't think Love or Hansbrough will be lottery picks this year. Love is still a fatty and both are sorta undersized to play in the middle. I wouldn't predict greatness for any player in the college game today other than Derrick Rose.

 

[Yossarian]

wow....not even Beasle, Gordon, Griffin, or Mayo? How about Bayless, Collison or Lawson? None of those will turn out to be notable players in your mind, bro?



alright.....let's see yer predictions, mother****ers!


Memphis
-----------------------------------> Memphis
Ucla
-------------------------------------------------->UNC

Kansas
----------------------------------->UNC
UNC

 

[SlayerDeuS]

Notable sure, but not the possibility to reach GREATNESS...again though it really depends on which situation they get drafted into and it is all a crap-shoot. I like Memphis & UNC as well.

 

[$teauA]

UNC vs. UCLA

UCLA to win it all.

 

[twigsanberries]

UNC vs. UCLA

UCLA to win it all.

ms cleo...? is that you!?



just playin man... kansas v memphis.

and what the **** man? since when did memphis decide they knew how to shoot free throws?