Manchester United F.C Thread [2009/2010]

[Pogba4Now]

Anyone with half a brain.

I don't know why things that are so blatantly obvious to me aren't obvious to everyone else. Every time I saw Robben play with either Madrid or with Holland I could see what a valuable player he is. He is FAST, both with the ball and without it and he can use that speed to shake a defender. Since he has such a great left foot, he could be utilized on either wing, either sending in crosses from the left or going down the right and cutting in to unleash his wicked shots.

You people all seem to be concerned with what manager comes to United and I just can't understand it. A great player is FIVE TIMES more important than a great manager. You take a player like Messi or Ronaldo and he will be fantastic no matter what manager he plays for. You take a 'great' manager and hand him a bunch of average players and the team will still only be average.

SAF's worth is in his ability to mentor young players...but please stop giving him credit for all the trophies because it was the players that won them.

ok, I'll just give you a few examples:

1. As Daz said, by your logic, Real should be winning everything. They are a team full of stars: Ronaldo, Kaka, Higuain, Benzema, Xabi Alonso etc: all world class players. What is the explanation for RM's failures? They went out of the UCL to underdogs Lyon, were humiliated 4-0 by amateur team Alcorcon and went out of the Copa Del Rey prematurely. If you think the players are 5 times greater than the manager, Real should be sitting on top of La Liga and still in Copa and UCL.

2. Real Madrid won 2 UCL, 2 La Liga titles, and were reaching the last 4 of the UCL each season when Vicente Del Bosque was in charge. That was the 3 most successful consecutive years in Real's history (2000-2003). Once he's fired, a new manager comes and buys a few more stars along with the stars that they had already. And guess what? They haven't got past the 1/8 of the UCL since 2004. How would you explain that? Is that just pure coincidence?

3. Now talking about United and Fergie, when he came on, United had not won a single english top flight league trophy since 1967! YEAH we were an AVERAGE team before, just in case you didn't know.

From 1978 to 1986, United had won: 1 UCL, 7 league titles, 6 FA Cups in 108 years.
Compare that to after Fergie came: 3 UCL, 18 league titles, 11 FA Cups (Fergie alone won 2 UCL, 11 leagues, 5 FA Cups).

As you can see, these figures have doubled or even tripled since Fergie came. What's your explanation? Did our players get some sort of superpowers or something since the early 1990s?

I suggest you read a bit about United's history before you call Fergie "moron". He turned an AVERAGE club into ONE OF THE WORLD'S BEST in 25 years! Something NO other manager could do in the previous 108 years (apart from Sir Matt Busby who did an excellent work).

 

[cfdemarco]

As you can see, these figures have doubled or even tripled since Fergie came. What's your explanation? Did our players get some sort of superpowers or something since the early 1990s?

Um, no...we just got BETTER players.

Newsflash, when you bring in better players, you wind up performing better.

Have you not seen this happen at City in the past two years?

 

[adedawson]

And what Nady said... that was just at Old Trafford. As Aberdeen manager, Alex Ferguson had claimed every prize that Scotland had to offer, not to mention the added bonus of the European Cup Winners Cup when his team defied overwhelming odds to beat Real Madrid! He single handedly broke the “old firm” monopoly of Celtic & Rangers, sweeping all before him.

He certainly didn't do that with a team of super stars.

At Aberdeen he also took a team that hadn't won anything since 1955 and got them silverware within a few seasons. And bagged European success on top of that.

 

[Pogba4Now]

Um, no...we just got BETTER players.

Newsflash, when you bring in better players, you wind up performing better.

Have you not seen this happen at City in the past two years?

Ok, now explain me about Real Madrid's downfall from 2004 to 2010? Every year they bring new stars. They should be getting better every year. How come they keep on under-performing?

And btw you said we got better players. Is that a coincidence that we got better players? Fergie is the one who formed them or bought them in the first place. Without a good manager, you can't build a team. Without a good manager, you cannot tutor youngsters and turn them into stars.

And what Nady said... that was just at Old Trafford. As Aberdeen manager, Alex Ferguson had claimed every prize that Scotland had to offer, not to mention the added bonus of the European Cup Winners Cup when his team defied overwhelming odds to beat Real Madrid! He single handedly broke the “old firm” monopoly of Celtic & Rangers, sweeping all before him.

He certainly didn't do that with a team of super stars.

He did the same thing at Aberdeen too, He took a team that hadn't won anything since 1955 and got them silverware within a few seasons. And bagged European success on top of that.

Yeah great point. He had to beat big teams like Real Madrid and Bayern to win that cup. With a team without stars: Aberdeen.

 

[cfdemarco]

Ok, now explain me about Real Madrid's downfall from 2004 to 2010? Every year they bring new stars. How come they keep on under-performing?

And btw you said we got better players. Is that a coincidence that we got better players? Fergie is the one who formed them or bought them in the first place. Without a good manager, you can't build a team. Without a good manager, you cannot tutor youngsters and turn them into stars.

They are only under-performing because their own standards are so high. If they expect to win every competition they compete in every season, they are only bound for disappointment. The perfection that is expected of them is just not possible.

They are in a position to compete for the title every season, what more can you ask of them? That's like me saying I expect United to win the treble every season...it's just not possible.

I give SAF credit for finding good, young talent to bring in, but it is ultimately up to the player to perform. You can teach attitude, you can teach tactics, but you cannot teach talent or physical ability, that is only up to the player's natural abilities.

You can try to give the manager as much credit as you want, but at the end of the day it is still up to the players to go out and actually perform. A manager's impact on the game ends at the touchline...it is on the pitch that the match is decided by the players.

 

[adedawson]

Yeah great point. He had to beat big teams like Real Madrid and Bayern to win that cup. With a team without stars: Aberdeen.

Yep, once possibly a fluke, but then to go on and do it all over again. And this with teams that hadn't won Carlos in years. He had to build and properly manage these team. At which he did to great success.

 

[Pogba4Now]

I give SAF credit for finding good, young talent to bring in, but it is ultimately up to the player to perform. You can teach attitude, you can teach tactics, but you cannot teach talent or physical ability, that is only up to the player's natural abilities.

You can try to give the manager as much credit as you want, but at the end of the day it is still up to the players to go out and actually perform. A manager's impact on the game ends at the touchline...it is on the pitch that the match is decided by the players.

Yes, kind of agree. But saying that the player is 5 times more important than the manager is just absurd. If you have a starting 11 full of stars, you won't win matches unless there's a manager to instruct the players how to play and change tactics.

Football is not just about stars. Its about tactics as well. You need good players and good tactics to win games. If you don't have one of these 2, your team won't operate. Sometimes you might not notice what difference a great manager does to the team. You only notice that difference when the manager leaves... That's why I used Del Bosque as example. As soon as he left the club, the team started to under-perform.

Yep, once possibly a fluke, but then to go on and do it all over again. And this with teams that hadn't won Carlos in years. He had to build and properly manage these team. At which he did to great success.

Yeah. That simply can't be pure luck or coincidence.

 

[adedawson]

I give SAF credit for finding good, young talent to bring in, but it is ultimately up to the player to perform. You can teach attitude, you can teach tactics, but you cannot teach talent or physical ability, that is only up to the player's natural abilities.

You can try to give the manager as much credit as you want, but at the end of the day it is still up to the players to go out and actually perform. A manager's impact on the game ends at the touchline...it is on the pitch that the match is decided by the players.

What's that famous saying Antony Hewish said. (Hes a Nobel Prize winner) When you plan a ship of discovery and go off, somebody up the mast head says "land ho". That's great, but who actually inspired it and conceived it and decides what to do, when and so on. There is a difference between skipper and crew.

That said, its a mixture of all the elements that makes us win, the players, the trainers, coaches, facilities, tacticians, physios etc. They all need each other. The question is, who drives and directs that infrastructure.

 

[RockShow]

FYI Robben snubbed United for Chelsea. i wouldnt expect to see him in a Manchester United jersey while SAF is at the helm.

and also, you obviously have no inkling of how important leadership is in a team environment otherwise you wouldnt be spouting all that garbage demarco. ask any army or company how important it is, there are volumes written on it.

 

[Zakov]

Apart from Gerrard and Alonso going at it, I didn't think I'd ever see male footballers being so intimate with each other.

Good heavens. O_O

 

[ladylover]

Apart from Gerrard and Alonso going at it, I didn't think I'd ever see male footballers being so intimate with each other.

Good heavens. O_O

Hahahaha....

 

[adedawson]

that actually makes me feel sick. It looks really passionate. My stomach is turning

 

[adedawson]

http://www.skysports.com/video/inline/0,26691,13862_5572797,00.html

fan zone vs the bitters during the game. Priceless!! the Owen goal was so funny!

 

[Zakov]

I love fanzone, the thing that I like most about it is that its mostly just friendly banter, never over the top.

 

[adedawson]

Manchester United is world's richest club says Forbes


Money can't buy you love, but has helped United's on-field success
Manchester United is still the most valuable football club in the world, according to Forbes magazine.

The Premier League title holders, who came second in a list compiled by Deloitte in February, again topped the table ahead of Real Madrid.
Forbes values United at £1.19bn($1.84bn), Real at £859m ($1.32bn), and Arsenal, in third, at £767m ($1,181m).

It uses data on income streams such as broadcast rights, sponsorship and sales of tickets and merchandise.

Barcelona is fourth in the 20-team list which includes six clubs from the Premier League plus Newcastle United who have spent this season playing in the Championship.

Liverpool, Chelsea and AC Milan all made the top 10, but the trio's value had each fallen by 19% in the 2008/09 season according to the Forbes calculations.

Juventus and Olympic Marseille had the two biggest increases in value - each gaining 9% on the previous year.

Increasing sponsorship and media revenue meant "the news continues to be good for investors" said Michael Ozanian, national editor at Forbes.

However the average worth of the clubs in the list fell 8.5%.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8635865.stm

interesting. Appears we still have lots of money incoming

 

[cfdemarco]

All the more to pay off Malcolm the Deceiver's debt

 

[cfdemarco]

Balotelli has given the Special One a transfer request...

Put Berbs on the next plane to Milan.

 

[MikeyM]

Balotelli has given the Special One a transfer request...

Put Berbs on the next plane to Milan.

I've liked what little I've seen of Balotelli. Just because he's handed in a request, doesn't mean he want's to come to us though.

Speaking of transfers, today's name is Gareth Bale. I would assume he'd be a left winger for us, because I can't see Patrice Evra being stood down. He looks a really good player and I think he'd suit us. I know Fergie tried to get him from Southampton (but Bale felt he'd get more time at Spurs)

Question is, how much will Spurs want? £20M is being mentioned in the papers.

So just in case you're keeping score - the rumour mill is:

IN

Milner - Villa: Possible that Fergie wants a driving midfielder, but City have reared their ugly heads apparently.
Bale - Spurs: see above.
Lloris - Lyon: Not seen too much of him, but rumours are that Fergie will be adding a keeper this summer.
Benzema - Real: Yep again.
J. Cole - Chelsea: Possible, but as with Milner, the words "Manchester City" have been mentioned, add another "0"
Aguero - Atletico: Apparently Chelsea is his preferred destination.
Dougas Costa - Shacktar: Still has eyes for United apparently.
Rodwell - Everton: A bit quiet this one recently.
Dzeko - Wolfsburg: Us and everyone else.
Villa - Valencia: Too old?
Silva - Valencia: Add United to the list.

OUT:

Tosic - Cologne: People in Germany are saying the interview being reported over here as Tosic wants to stay with Cologne permanently, have been twisted by the British media. Reports over there are he wants to extend his loan, and then return to United.

Rooney - Real: Well the press sold Ronaldo for us last year, so they're stirring the sh*t with Rooney now. Real want him (who wouldn't) but indications from United are that a blockbuster contract is being readied for United's talisman.

Berbatov - Anywhere: Your guess is as good as mine here.

 

[cfdemarco]

I would like to see Bale come to United, he is a good player.

I would love to see Aguero arrive but you know that Chelsea will offer both a bigger transfer and a higher wage.

 

[Coruja]

Di Maria is in the mouth of the world, including Manchester United...