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[P+R] Croatia vs. England

pede54

Team Captain
S-o-c-C-r-o said:
I can't beleive how everyone just goes on about that funny goal. Only thing funny was england's performance: 4 shots and only one (a very poor one)on target, in the 91 minute. Croatia had 16 shots, and corners 9:1... an excellent performance. Come on, give some credit to our young and talented team... that after all, thrashed another big headed english illusion of being the world's best team!!!


You will not be able to find one Englishman who ever thought that England were the Worlds best team. This "Illusion" as you put it, just does not exist. It stems from other nations inferiority complexes and has never EVER had any meaning.

If your team went 40 years without winning anything, would you consider them the Worlds best team? Of course you wouldn't so why should the English be any different. We know our team is crap, we always have. We just seem to get one crap manager after the other, because our FA is incompetant and useless and they like to play safe all the time, and take on a "yes" man. That will never win England anything.
 

CapaJr

I Will Learn To Respect My Fellow Man, Even If It
Red Card
i watched some parts of the game, as far as i saw, crotia dominated the game, well played game for them, well done hrvati ;)
 

TOON ARMY

Starting XI
pede54 said:
our FA is incompetant and useless and they like to play safe all the time, and take on a "yes" man. That will never win England anything.


Exactly, it has always been that way. Just remember Brian Clough. Clough was a winner, a footballing genius and knew exactly how to handle the big players.

The FA wouldn't touch him with a bargepole because he was outspoken and wasn't afraid to put people in their places.

Now we have a manager who needs a sleaze bag publicist to give his post match interview! A spineless bastard and the players aren't much better either.
 

pede54

Team Captain
To be fair to the players TA, they only do what they are told mate. McClaren behaves like a little bitch,(e.g. the Beckham situation), and if anyone steps out of line in any way, they are out.

McClaren has now decided, at this stage of the qualifiers to maybe introduce younger players to the squad. He already picked Richardson and Downing so what other average ability players will he bring in now. I dread to think.

He accepted that his tactics were all wrong against Croatia. That for me is enough of a confession for the FA to sack him now. A World class manager (which is what we need), might make a tactical mistake here and there, but they are prepared to put it right when the mistake is realised. McClaren insisted his team stuck to the game plan even though it was obvious it was never going to work.

Another thing. You do not try out a new untried formation in an important competitive match. I thought every idiot in the Universe would know that. Apparantely McClaren didn't.

Ah well, the worse is yet to come so lets all prepare for that.
 

FFC2004

Senior Squad
I'm sick of England playing the sensible game... let's get some attacking, daring, risk taking football... (not that going for a goal should really be considered risk taking)

honestly, england remind me of fulham.
 

Cro Cop

Club Supporter

:amika: :rockman:
 

Aarfy Aardvark

Youth Team
FFC2004 said:
I'm sick of England playing the sensible game... let's get some attacking, daring, risk taking football... (not that going for a goal should really be considered risk taking)

honestly, england remind me of Middlesbrough during the seasons 2001-2006.

Fixed your post. :ewan:
 

TOON ARMY

Starting XI
pede54 said:
McClaren has now decided, at this stage of the qualifiers to maybe introduce younger players to the squad. He already picked Richardson and Downing so what other average ability players will he bring in now. I dread to think.

To be fair, Richardson and more recently Downing had a fair few call-ups under Sven too. The Downing thing wasn't helped by the injury of J. Cole who is pretty much a cert for the left side nowadays. Take Cole away and we are left with a lack of options on the left unless he changes the system. So in some ways i can understand both Richardson's and Downing's inclusion.

I also agree we need a world class manager (who wouldn't?). Thing is there aren't many who come to mind who would take the job at the current time. During the farcical selection process the FA overlooked blatant World class manager in Hiddink and O'Neill, both would have snapped the FA's hand off. So, what are we left with? Curbishley and Allardyce etc? While they are good manager they are certainly not good enough.
 

Aarfy Aardvark

Youth Team
Cro Cop said:

I actually lived in Croatia for about six months. Lovely people, lovely country.

As with any country you have your brainless dick-heads, and of course your igonorant tools. Most definetly the ones who displayed the Irish banner were the same ones who thought because I was English I would be able to hold my own in a football riot (evidently, I cannot - I'm goddamn chicken, like the rest of the mob who approached me that day for a nice chat.)

Anyways;

I take it, the Irish flag was not displaying their love of Guiness and Thin Lizzy, but rather a thinly veiled jab at the IRA. To which of course must people just laugh at because anyone with a braincell knows how incongrous that is, and how really stretched out it is given the current climate. (Its actually Britain who the IRA seek venegance against NOT England.) The most trouble the IRA cause is stealing lorry loads of DVD players to fund their prositution and gambling rings. I suppose the poor devils just wanted to be seen on television or have their faces published.

But then again you know, some Bulgarian fans in solidarity for their 'Serbian' imports displayed a nice banner honouring Ovcara when Croatia travelled to Sofia 2 years ago.

I suppose what goes around comes around.

I guess that will be me then; at the New Wembley, next November displaying my 6 foot JNA banner trying to get my photo published in Vecernji List.

Or you know, I could just not become one of those ignorant, moronic, attention-seeking twats.
 

Cro Cop

Club Supporter
The reasons why they had an irish flag and burned the english flag:
1.England was always against Croatia and for Serbia,especially during the war.
2.The irish have a same history like Croatia and England for them is like Serbia is for Croats.
3.They wanted to provoce english fans.

Why would the IRA seek venegance from Britain but not from england?I don't think the Scots or the Welsh are responcible for the Northern Ireland conflict.
 

Aarfy Aardvark

Youth Team
Cro Cop said:
Why would the IRA seek venegance from Britain but not from england?I don't think the Scots or the Welsh are responcible for the Northern Ireland conflict.

Because England is not Britain dip****.

Welsh or Scots not responsible? Yeah... they were never ever Scottish or Welsh battalions in Northern Ireland. :nape:
 

pede54

Team Captain
cro cop.....I presume you regard the pics you posted with pride huh? Why dont people like you learn something about the history of a country before you or people like you make a fool of yourselves. England are not and never have been (at least in recent history) at war with Ireland. The Government of the UK, which includes, England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland WERE at war with the IRA. Two completely different scenarios. So showing the Irish triciolor was meaningless mate. There are no parralels to be drawn at all with the Croatin/Serb situation.

I know this sort of thing is always down to a minority of morons but really, it will take more than the pathetic burning of a flag to provoke England fans. Personally I wouldn't disrespect any country or its people by doing something like that, but then again I'm not a thick moron who gets some excitement into an otherwise dreary life by acting like a retard. It does not do much to improve the Croatian fans reputation for mindlessness either. Not that the morons care about that of course.
 

FFC2004

Senior Squad
Cro Cop said:
The reasons why they had an irish flag and burned the english flag:
1.England was always against Croatia and for Serbia,especially during the war.
2.The irish have a same history like Croatia and England for them is like Serbia is for Croats.
3.They wanted to provoce english fans.

Why would the IRA seek venegance from Britain but not from england?I don't think the Scots or the Welsh are responcible for the Northern Ireland conflict.


Well isn't Croatia a wonderful country then!
 

S-o-c-C-r-o

Club Supporter
Shouldn't you be talking about football here!? I'm sick of all this political talks and tentions between countries for things that should be far from the pitch. After all, we have to give most credit to the english for this wonderful game!!! England is probably the only country that praises football to the highest point, they celebrate football every weekend, not only when their national team is playing, and that's why it feels so good to beat them. And, yes, english fans are proud, but arrogant as well... I was loughed at in a pub in London for saying that we can reach semis in '98! I was right then after all, and england went out in an earlier phase once again!
Anyway, another qualifiers weekend is behind us, and we'll all be back watching FA action on our satelites, and just love the english for their passion for football! It's only in england you see grannies and little kids on the stands living a great part of their life called FOOTBALL!!!

SO, THANK YOU ENGLAND!!!
 

Da Kid

Senior Squad
S-o-c-C-r-o said:
Shouldn't you be talking about football here!? I'm sick of all this political talks and tentions between countries for things that should be far from the pitch. After all, we have to give most credit to the english for this wonderful game!!! England is probably the only country that praises football to the highest point, they celebrate football every weekend, not only when their national team is playing, and that's why it feels so good to beat them. And, yes, english fans are proud, but arrogant as well... I was loughed at in a pub in London for saying that we can reach semis in '98! I was right then after all, and england went out in an earlier phase once again!
Anyway, another qualifiers weekend is behind us, and we'll all be back watching FA action on our satelites, and just love the english for their passion for football! It's only in england you see grannies and little kids on the stands living a great part of their life called FOOTBALL!!!

SO, THANK YOU ENGLAND!!!
:rockman:

Cro Cop!I am from Croatia and I really dont understand why you had to put those photos? It is stupid like that guys that were doing that! :nape:
Please....dont mix ploitics in this :jambo:
 

Vedran-10

Starting XI
There are always idiots, everywhere, not just here. I hate racists, and I hate people who throw torches on the field. I don't mind seeing them lit up, just for better atmosphere, but having them being thrown on the players is just stupid and unnecessary. There was this guy standing a few rows down from where I was, he would raise his right hand everytime the North stand would say "Hrvatska!". He's obviously an ignorant and an idiot, but it can't be helped. There will always be people like him. They are a minority, though.

The rest of us Croatians don't take these racist accusations seriously. While we were entering the stadium, some guy said "Oh, would you all just stop being racist!" and everyone laughed, including me. It's just stupid to accuse a nation of racism when there's only a group of people making racist gestures. And seriously, no one can do anything to stop this because they can't be thrown out/banned from the stadium for raising their right hand. It's sad how a group of idiots can be a motive for UEFA to threaten us with expulsion. I mean, EXPULSION from an international competition because a few idiots didn't have a very good education. It's not fair.
Also, after the game, the Croatian police officers and Sokol Marić employees who were frisking the fans at the entrance, have now turned out to be bullies because, apparently, some English fans got beat up. As I've read, some English fans wanted to get into the stadium without a ticket, and the security had to resort to violence. In that mess, some English fans who had a ticket also got hit, and now, because this happened with a few people, the Croatian have turned out to be a violent nation. All this is supposed to make us lose the Euro hosting. I don't know why people generalize things so much. Even if some English people did get hit, I'm sure the security didn't assault them for no reason. But the English have turned out to be saints harassed for no apparent reason, and we have violent maniacs securing football games.

Also, the people who are thought to be racist are on the North stand. The South is for away fans, the rest is for home fans, with the West being most expensive and the North being the cheapest. This is obviously the reason why 99% of idiots are on the North stand, and why the camera likes showing that stand. When you watch it on the TV, it's like the whole stadium is on fire, but it's really just the North stand and a bit of East, where I was. The people on my stand were just singing "U boj u boj, za narod svoj!", being ordinary fans with no malice. There's an idiot here and there, but that's it. The North is critical, because the people that do most of the singing and chanting and flag-waving are there, and it's the stand that is zoomed in on the most. Then people see it on TV and think we're racist, violent and ignorant. But when you're actually in the stadium, you see that the trouble makers are lets say a hundred people. The capacity in Maksimir is 38 000, I think. So... lets say there were 30 000 fans. Four and a half English, leaving us with a figure of 25 - 25.5 thousand Croatian fans. So, a hundred or two out of 25 thousand is nothing, really. What people don't want to understand is that these people can't be banned. They have a right to buy a ticket and attend, regardless of what they're singing. Sadly enough, these people are professional trouble makers, you can tell when they pass by you on the street. When I was going to the game, there were English fans around, and no one attacked them, no one insulted them, nothing. They got a few instructions from other citizens on how to get to the stadium. When I was really close to Maksimir, there was a small group of Croatian fans walking in front of me, and a few English fans coming the opposite way. When they came close to eachother, they said hello and shook hands. They didn't know each other because I heard the conversation among my countrymen afterwards, being so close to them. They didn't understand what the English said to them, but they thought it was cool they met. That's what the Cro fans are like. It's sad that the idiots are the group people are paying attention to.
There was also a big English flag somewhere, I think it was the main square. It had three words, two of them being Passion and Belief, I'm sure you saw the pics. They spread that flag and people were signing it. That was on the main square, no one made a problem out of it. But that's forgotten because a few people in Zagreb are racist.
 

TOON ARMY

Starting XI
Cro Cop said:
The reasons why they had an irish flag and burned the english flag:
1.England was always against Croatia and for Serbia,especially during the war.
2.The irish have a same history like Croatia and England for them is like Serbia is for Croats.
3.They wanted to provoce english fans.

Why would the IRA seek venegance from Britain but not from england?I don't think the Scots or the Welsh are responcible for the Northern Ireland conflict.

You really are a bit thick aren't you?

The Irish on this forum would be pretty pissed that you associate their flag with the IRA, who if i might have disarmed and no longer carry out paramilitary activities anyway.
 

Aarfy Aardvark

Youth Team
Vedran-10 said:
There are always idiots, everywhere, not just here. I hate racists, and I hate people who throw torches on the field. I don't mind seeing them lit up, just for better atmosphere, but having them being thrown on the players is just stupid and unnecessary. There was this guy standing a few rows down from where I was, he would raise his right hand everytime the North stand would say "Hrvatska!". He's obviously an ignorant and an idiot, but it can't be helped. There will always be people like him. They are a minority, though.

The rest of us Croatians don't take these racist accusations seriously. While we were entering the stadium, some guy said "Oh, would you all just stop being racist!" and everyone laughed, including me. It's just stupid to accuse a nation of racism when there's only a group of people making racist gestures. And seriously, no one can do anything to stop this because they can't be thrown out/banned from the stadium for raising their right hand. It's sad how a group of idiots can be a motive for UEFA to threaten us with expulsion. I mean, EXPULSION from an international competition because a few idiots didn't have a very good education. It's not fair.
Also, after the game, the Croatian police officers and Sokol Marić employees who were frisking the fans at the entrance, have now turned out to be bullies because, apparently, some English fans got beat up. As I've read, some English fans wanted to get into the stadium without a ticket, and the security had to resort to violence. In that mess, some English fans who had a ticket also got hit, and now, because this happened with a few people, the Croatian have turned out to be a violent nation. All this is supposed to make us lose the Euro hosting. I don't know why people generalize things so much. Even if some English people did get hit, I'm sure the security didn't assault them for no reason. But the English have turned out to be saints harassed for no apparent reason, and we have violent maniacs securing football games.

Also, the people who are thought to be racist are on the North stand. The South is for away fans, the rest is for home fans, with the West being most expensive and the North being the cheapest. This is obviously the reason why 99% of idiots are on the North stand, and why the camera likes showing that stand. When you watch it on the TV, it's like the whole stadium is on fire, but it's really just the North stand and a bit of East, where I was. The people on my stand were just singing "U boj u boj, za narod svoj!", being ordinary fans with no malice. There's an idiot here and there, but that's it. The North is critical, because the people that do most of the singing and chanting and flag-waving are there, and it's the stand that is zoomed in on the most. Then people see it on TV and think we're racist, violent and ignorant. But when you're actually in the stadium, you see that the trouble makers are lets say a hundred people. The capacity in Maksimir is 38 000, I think. So... lets say there were 30 000 fans. Four and a half English, leaving us with a figure of 25 - 25.5 thousand Croatian fans. So, a hundred or two out of 25 thousand is nothing, really. What people don't want to understand is that these people can't be banned. They have a right to buy a ticket and attend, regardless of what they're singing. Sadly enough, these people are professional trouble makers, you can tell when they pass by you on the street. When I was going to the game, there were English fans around, and no one attacked them, no one insulted them, nothing. They got a few instructions from other citizens on how to get to the stadium. When I was really close to Maksimir, there was a small group of Croatian fans walking in front of me, and a few English fans coming the opposite way. When they came close to eachother, they said hello and shook hands. They didn't know each other because I heard the conversation among my countrymen afterwards, being so close to them. They didn't understand what the English said to them, but they thought it was cool they met. That's what the Cro fans are like. It's sad that the idiots are the group people are paying attention to.
There was also a big English flag somewhere, I think it was the main square. It had three words, two of them being Passion and Belief, I'm sure you saw the pics. They spread that flag and people were signing it. That was on the main square, no one made a problem out of it. But that's forgotten because a few people in Zagreb are racist.

Totally. I was at the Makismir, four years ago - and I was quite taken aback by the racism and some sections of violence (especially amongst the ultras, but this is nothing new.) But this really only represents a small minority of the popualtion sadly. Most people you encounter in Croatia are friggin' awesome.

I just think these idiots could well expel Croatia out of the tournament after recent incidents involving the fans (in Malta and Italy for example.)

I think its time the authorities stop being overran by the ultra groups and stop trying to wish the problem will go away. Some of these fans need to enter the 21st century and except the country as one that is going forward not backwards.

Tbh, I really wish we could meet again in the Euro 2008 finals, because in 2004 the atmosphere between both sets of fans was the best I've ever seen.

Let's also hope by the last game in November 2007, we can both celebrate as two teams who have gone through with nothing to play for, and just can enjoy a nice game of football.
 


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