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Your take on the Real Madrid Crisis
- Thread starter WilliamFAlmeida
- Start date
Socrates said:Sorry but having Raul, Ronaldo, Eto'o, and Moro wouldnt work. People still want to play for Madrid but they want to be the strater of the games not the subs so this again wont work out.
With us being Madrid it would have been much more than 45 Million becuse clubs tend to overprice their players as soon as a club with lots of money gets involved.
Got to go now, i might have missed some things
No problem, I see your point, but about the minutes thing, that is why they call it a team, some people have to sacrafice for other's good (part of Madrid's problem now). Just so long as they played some, they would have at least given it a chance.
Also if I recall correctly, PSG wanted 12-18 million I think for Dinho, Madrid already owned half of Eto'o's rights so that would have been at the time 6-8 for the other half. I think anyways.
RUSI said:
MAN, I just spent like 15 minutes writing a response, so I think you raised some good points, but then my computer lost it!
So I'll try to summerize by brilliant response
1. Nobody could have known Dinho would be as good as he is, but he was obviously going to be very, very good. Clubs were lining up across Europe to try to get him.
2. At that time Eto'o would not have had to play with Ronaldo, he would have been paired with either Raul or Morientes. Even if the two had to play together, they score their own goals, so "linking up" would not necessarily have been a huge problem (I have also seen Eto'o make some very clever passes). And one could also say that Raul and Ronaldo don't link up together that well either.
3. Replace Makelele with who? I think I listed the possibles in another post, and it would have been much cheaper to just pay him than go out and struggle to sign comparable players.
4. Essien and Makelele usually do not play together, as Cole is usually preferred. Chelsea play more or less 4 center backs (del horno and Gallas don't attack as much as you would think) and 5 attackers Duff, Robben, Drogba up top and Cole and Lampard attacking through the middle as AMs) That leaves Makelele to cover the defense and start attacks. Lampard only comes deep to collect the ball (because in their system he doesn't have to do much defending).
5. Owen and Morientes would have been content not starting as long as they played, as both said that they wanted to stay in Madrid, but both leaving because they were told they wouldn't play. I am sure that they could have found minutes for 2 of Europe's most dangerous strikershaving so many games in la liga, the copa del rey and the champion's league. Espcially considering who they have now (i.e. Baptista and Robinho).
6. I think that Madrid have a huge striker problem. When you have to play Robinho as a lone striker, that looks like a problem to me. Also, playing Ronaldo in El Classico with 3 days of prior training seems like a problem, Raul being out for months looks like a problem, and Baptista hurt also looks like a problem and Guti is not really a forward.
7. As for the midfield in the defence, someone could come in and help Madrid clean it up for a respectable league run, but they cannot win in Europe with the players they have in midfield and defense now.
Midfield: No combination of an aging Zidane, an overworked Beckham, a lightweight Robinho, a useless Baptista, an average Garcia, and Gravesen and Guti can compete with Barca, Milan or Juventus' midfields or Chelsea's system.
As for the defense, "San Iker" is an appropriate name for the work Casillas has to put in. I have not seen any team in any league have to rely on their keeper that much and still be in the top 5 teams in the league. R. Carlos doesn't want to play in Europe anymore, let alone spain, Helguera throwing his hands up in the air all day says it all, Pavon is more cover than starter, Woodgate is luckless and Salgado is solid, but doesn't add enough going forward. Diogo and Mejia are squad players and Raul Bravo looks like he should be playing up top
So, while tactics have definitely been a problem, the players you have dictate those tactics, and as it stands now, Madrid's management create's alot of problems with its "Galacticos and Pavons" policy.
Bringing Del Bosque back isn't going to solve anything, the problem IMO is the attitude of the players, if they don't want something, before you know it they win the battle and the manager gets sacked, Perez is also a fool for bringing in stars, this would happen sooner or later, Chelsea isn't a star filled team, but they have quality and they are prepared to listen to Mourinho and each other, the only star that is working hard atm is Beckham, but one player can't carry the whole team and that's why Real need a no-nonsense coach, if you can't shut up and listen, you won't play or you can leave
Swerve said:
Alright im back. I agree with you that right now the meaning of team a problem but a slight problem, its just that Ronaldinho would have just made it much more complicated at the time.
I meant that the other 3 defenders you were talking about, they would cost more than you expect just because we are Madrid and just becuase of that we should have to pay more to get a player. Thats what i was talking about.
Swerve said:
How so?? We had Ronaldo at the time and he was a starter as was Raul.
Swerve said:
We should have replaced him with anyone that you suggested or anyone that was doing hot at the moment, Gravesen came too late
and he was only good for last year this year he has been nowhere near as good as last year.Swerve said:
Sorry but both are great players so even being on the bench for either of them is unfair and they would have not been happy. I dont think either really wanted to stay to be a sub, stay to be a strater of course they would stay but not to be a sub. Yes they would have found minuets but not nearaly enough. Baptista is such a waste, Luxa wanted him to be a midfielder but it just didnt work, it seemed like initally Luxa wanted Just Ronaldo, Raul, Robinho as strikers and Soldado as the backup incase of injury or something like that so thats four strikers as i have said before. I liked this because it made sense, Raul and Ronaldo would start and Robinho is young so he can just be a sub and he would be the first sub to come on for Raul or Ronaldo and Soldado would have played for Castilla anyways so he couldnt have complained.
Swerve said:
I dont think we have a striker problem. Luxa played Robinho as a lone striker for unknown reasons we could have easily played Soldado with him but no Luxa decided on just putting Robinho up there. The unexpected injuries dosnt mean that we should have 6 forwards.
Swerve said:
Zidane should retire this year. Beckham is a good right winger. Robinho should either be just a forward or if needed an AMC but that it. Baptista i agree. Garcia i think is more than just average he is good. I like Guti's play although he is sometimes inconsistant he has been good this year and Gravesen as i had said before is not the player of last year
Hopefully with the new coach he can encourge the players to do more to help the team and get Carlos back to playing well. Helguera and Pavon are backups, in my ideal defence for us Woodgate and Ramos would start in the center with Helguera in the bench to come in if something happens and Pavon as the 4th backup. The only spot in defence that is not covered is left back as i have said.
Swerve said:
I have already said that the problems are part coachs fault and part Perez's fault so i wont debate on this as i have already given my opinion on that.
Sorry for the long post.
EDIT:
ladylover said:
I agree with most of what you say exepct that Beckham is the only hard worker, there is more than just 1 hard worker at Madrid. Becks, Iker, Ramos, Raul, Helguera ( although he is losing his skill
), Salgado, Guti, and Garcia. Just some players that are lazy. It just seems like these players lack motovation, another thing Luxa couldnt bring.Del Bosque was so succesful not becuase he was a no nonsense coach but because he had the superstars, the pavons, and the players that were in the middle of this like Makelele.
I also disagree about what you say about Chelsea, they have a backup team that is good enough to get a pretty good spot in the EPL. They just have one of the best coachs that handles everything nicely with all of them and plays them nicely.
Jedi Mind Trick
Starting XI
Rob said:
eh, beat me to it. i was just gonna say it.
can we all agree that if anyone is to blame, everyone should be looking towards mr. perez?
Swerve said:
I hate when that happens
We would have played Ronaldinho as a winger. We had two world-class wingers; Figo & Beckham(who we tried to play at CMSwerve said:
) It was easier to justify it at the time than it is now obviously.Swerve said:
We had Ronaldo at the time. Ronaldo is still the best striker in the world. Eto'o bitches so much now, Can you imagine him on the bench?(where he would have been.
Swerve said:
Agree. Stupid move on us.
Swerve said:
Haha.
Swerve said:
Well they didn't. Morientes hardly played ANY, which is why he left. And Owen wanted to leave in order to get minutes for the world cup, we wanted to loan him, but we couldn't.
Swerve said:
Just about any team would have a striker problem with three strikers out injured. Plus, Luxemburgo didn't have faith in Roberto Soldado
If played correctly, we definitely have the talent to do it, but our tactics as I have said were awful.Swerve said:
Swerve said:As for the defense, "San Iker" is an appropriate name for the work Casillas has to put in. I have not seen any team in any league have to rely on their keeper that much and still be in the top 5 teams in the league. R. Carlos doesn't want to play in Europe anymore, let alone spain, Helguera throwing his hands up in the air all day says it all, Pavon is more cover than starter, Woodgate is luckless and Salgado is solid, but doesn't add enough going forward. Diogo and Mejia are squad players and Raul Bravo looks like he should be playing up top
Once Woodgate is healthy, he will play with Ramos in the centre. Helguera played great vs. Sociedad so maybe he is starting to get better. Salgado and Diogo will fight for RB, and Carlos will be at LB. I think when Cicinho comes, we will try to transform him into a LB.
Our tactics were putting so much pressure on the CB's that it exposed them bcause they got hardly any help from the full-backs.Swerve said:
Look at our latest transfers...
'Zidanes y Pavones' is gone
Se7eN said:Just buy a player that actually gives everything he can on the field and that can do the dirty job without moaning or wanting a 7 digit salary per year. There, problem solved.
That is why Makelele left.Jedi Mind Trick said:
This season, I would have put it more on Vanderlei Luxemburgo.
We have the players to succeed.
But I agree, over the last three years, I guess the blame is on Florentino Perez.
Phew.... It took way too long for that post
WilliamFAlmeida said:
I would resign.
---
I think the board is responsible for those crises, firing Luxa was a very big mistake and I think this will make the team even bad. I don’t know how they were thinking when they fired Luxa, maybe they wanted him to win the league after 14 matches .
TheBlueBalla
Starting XI
The Madrid board firing Luxembergo without some kind of better replacement, like Le Guien or Hitzfield waiting in the wings to replace him immediately was cowardice. As Phil Ball put it, his head was cut off and held high to appease the rabid Madridistas. Saying his style of play was not attractive enough and thats why he got the axe is like taking the company line of Perez and his clowns. Im sure thats what their official position is, but its exceedingly clear that another scapegoat was just lined up and slaughtered for the sake of a team whose rottenness starts from the top down.
A practical man like Hierro, assuming he isnt lost in his new role, will presumably get heart and soul guys, like himself, into Madrid. They would be well served to sell a few of these names and egos and replace them with less glamorous, and im not trying to be racist but, Spanish talent who realize the honor of playing for that team, rather than the joy of getting a fat paycheck.
Perez may have made countless millions with the galacticos policy, but at what cost? The product on the pitch is just not what it should be with all that talent.
Oh, and I refuse to accost them for getting Robinho as many have lined up to do. No, he wasnt physically ready. Yes, they grossly overpaid. But if they had let him go, perhaps to Chelsea or Milan or whoever was lining up a bid, they would have been castigated even worse than over their slip-up with Ronaldinho and Eto'o because people could clearly see this kid is/was going to be something special.
I think the place they made their mistake was in getting him, and then keeping a frail 18 year old on their first team to cut his teeth in the second or third best league in the world. Its overstating the obvious, but that is no way to break in and ween talent. PSV, Benfica, France, anyteam that will accept him for the next year or year and a half Madrid should send him to on loan and try and sort themselves out. Developing a talent such as this kid has will never properly happen when he is a. on the bench because he isnt good enough to be getting minutes right now b. mired in the middle of a club crisis that might cause him to question his decision already.
If they season him in Holland or Portugal, bring him back say in 2007, and let him loose, I think he will be alot more 'Dinho than Denilson
A practical man like Hierro, assuming he isnt lost in his new role, will presumably get heart and soul guys, like himself, into Madrid. They would be well served to sell a few of these names and egos and replace them with less glamorous, and im not trying to be racist but, Spanish talent who realize the honor of playing for that team, rather than the joy of getting a fat paycheck.
Perez may have made countless millions with the galacticos policy, but at what cost? The product on the pitch is just not what it should be with all that talent.
Oh, and I refuse to accost them for getting Robinho as many have lined up to do. No, he wasnt physically ready. Yes, they grossly overpaid. But if they had let him go, perhaps to Chelsea or Milan or whoever was lining up a bid, they would have been castigated even worse than over their slip-up with Ronaldinho and Eto'o because people could clearly see this kid is/was going to be something special.
I think the place they made their mistake was in getting him, and then keeping a frail 18 year old on their first team to cut his teeth in the second or third best league in the world. Its overstating the obvious, but that is no way to break in and ween talent. PSV, Benfica, France, anyteam that will accept him for the next year or year and a half Madrid should send him to on loan and try and sort themselves out. Developing a talent such as this kid has will never properly happen when he is a. on the bench because he isnt good enough to be getting minutes right now b. mired in the middle of a club crisis that might cause him to question his decision already.
If they season him in Holland or Portugal, bring him back say in 2007, and let him loose, I think he will be alot more 'Dinho than Denilson
Rob said:
This planet, thanks for asking. Seems I was putting Cole in for Essien instead of Robben while he was injured. My mistake, wrong is wrong.
But, Ronaldo would not and cannot play every game, he hasn't in years, that is why the cover would have been good, and I am not sure many people think that he is still the best striker in the world (let alone Brazil). If those guys couldn't accept being on the bench, they could have been sold for much more than was actually gotten for them, plus Soldado is nowhere near as good as any other top teams' backups (del Piero, Inzaghi, Gudjohnson, Larsson, etc. all world class players who accept coming off the bench). But I guess that we can all agree that Madrid has got some serious work to do regardless of where the major problems are.
**The BlueBalla is right too that Robinho should have spent some time in a less intimidating environment before coming to Madrid.
Swerve said:
The Ronaldo things is all about personal opinion, i still think he is the best but hey thats just me ( BTW who else in Brazil or that play for Brazil NT is better than him??
) . If im not mistaken Del Piero, Inzaghi, Gudjohnson, Larsson are all direct subs for the players infront of them while Soldado isnt.BTW TBB i dont really want to aruge this anymore but Luxembergo wasnt just fired for his style of play but that it seems like he was just as lost as the players. He had no gameplay, no good tactics, he had nothing really. No one really knew what he was up to. Im not saying its all his fault but he takes some blame for and sacking was the right decision imo and as i have said in the Madrid thread i hope Hierro bitchslaps sense into the players and Perez.
TheBlueBalla said:
Hierro won't do anything. If he has accepted to return with Florentino after how he was dispatched, he won't have the balls to discuss the oficial club policy.
Besides Hierro was a very good player but outside the football pitch he's not a very intelligent person... to say it in a kind way.
His return is just a curtain to hidde some problems until the end of the season and to give people other things to talk about. That's all.
TheBlueBalla
Starting XI
Then that, frankly, is tragic. Some people on this board seemed to be really happy with the hiring, but if its like you claim it will be, then another PR stint by the board to duct tape their leaky raft has apparrently worked.panxoman said:
Sacchi and Butragueno seem(ed) to know what was going on, especially the former, but I see he too has jumped ship