The Canadian Soccer Thread

[::shinji::]

Edmonton is a great soccer town, but c'mon, you have to let go of the fantasy that a Canadian Soccer league would ever survive. It's been done before...the NASL did very well for a while, the Blizzard and Whitecaps had big followings back then but even that fizzled out.....and that was a league that had Pele! The CSL was a dissaster, got ok attendance for the first season or two, then....?


I can understand what you're saying though about wanting to support a local team, makes perfect sense. It's just too bad that MLS doesn't have relegation/promotion, because that would be a great opportunity for cities like Edmonton to try and get thier teams into the first division. Unfortunatly, that isn't for the American market, a relagated team in North America would get about 4 people going to their games.

 

[strobe_z]

First off, no one cares more about our National team than I do... but 1 MLS team is not the saviour of Canadian soccer.

I don't expect you to give a crap about Edmonton or a team for us.... but get it through your head that I don't give a crap about a team in Toronto either. , and I refuse to believe that there's no hope of EVER getting a Canadian soccer league going. The reason the leagues don't work is that they try too much too fast, and that the 'soccer fans' in Canada think the domestic product just isn't worth their time.

If every soccer fan in Canada that would shell out money to see Man U. play Barcelona went out to see the Whitecaps play the Impact I can guarantee we'd have a league in that class pretty damn soon. Obviously that's not going to happen, but fans in this country need an attitude adjustment.

As for money/tv contracts I'd love to see a Canadian soccer league on par with the CFL. Is the NFL bigger/better/more expensive.. sure! Does that bother me one bit? no. I'm not suggesting a Canadian League is going to be a world shaker.. but I really don't think it's too much to ask.

 

[Mikey]

I dont think anybody can argue MLS teams in Toronto, Montreal and maybe Vancouver would be a good thing for Canadian soccer. Like someone said before, they could limit the amount of Non-Canadians as well. I live about 30 min from Toronto, and Id be willing to go their for most games, something I wont do for the Lynx. If more people think like me, than Im sure theyd do well enough. The best plan would be to call them Toronto Azzurri, that would appeal to all the eye-tals around GTA. Hell, if Utah can have a team, Toronto surely could.

 

[davidcfs]

I dont think anybody can argue MLS teams in Toronto, Montreal and maybe Vancouver would be a good thing for Canadian soccer. Like someone said before, they could limit the amount of Non-Canadians as well. I live about 30 min from Toronto, and Id be willing to go their for most games, something I wont do for the Lynx. If more people think like me, than Im sure theyd do well enough. The best plan would be to call them Toronto Azzurri, that would appeal to all the eye-tals around GTA. Hell, if Utah can have a team, Toronto surely could.

Why won't you go to a lynx game? Montreal has 8 thousand + show up a game. Toronto has a measily 2,000 tops now me going to everygame am dissapointed with it really dissapointed. Its pro soccer in Canada yet 95% of these so called hardcore fans could give two ****s. Do you think the MLS is going to have any better players or something? I doubt it. Chances are that maybe in 6 years after getting our team the youth players will start to shine but by then everyone will have lost interest and the team would fold. Think realisticly here, a Pro Canadian Soccer League would be ******* awsome! Call it the C-League or something, everyone thought the J-league was going to bomb misserablly when it started in Japan but now its almost more popular then baseball!

All we need is proper advertisment and some well known players and the fans will come. The lynx get no one because they don't advertise and are too marketed to kids.

Start a league market it to adults as a pro league and tell them how they can be apart of something beautiful and the league will flurish.

 

[SnYper]

Rather than quote people, I'll just give an honest opinion.


What the Lynx play isn't soccer, it's a version of long-ball hailmary's hoping for the defense to screw up and get a break away. Watching that crap is as entertaining as watching paint dry.

The MLS at least has some international players and aging players that although they are no longer in their prime, still attract attention.

Canada can't have it's own league, there aren't enough cities or the money in this country to support it, and "canadians" won't be won over by soccer until the team qualfies for a world cup.

Soccer is near the bottom of the pecking order in this country and will be for quite awhile. There is no financial backing for the game at any level. I was stunned that CIBC put up some money for the team. Also, where do you expect a city like Edmonton to get money for a franchise? Be realistic, no local ownership will step up to the plate and pour money into something that will probably always turn a loss.

Where are some of you getting these ideas that marketing a league to a certain demographic will make it successful? The MLS is needed because of the exposure the league gets and its name recognition. Players can earn competitive wages, instead of 30K(if they're lucky) in the A-league. Also, they may actually be able to hold on to the hope of earning a move abroad if they do well enough.

There is no true "canadian media" to support a league either. American and Canadian sports media are completely intertwined. Hockey aside, we play their sports, watch their TV networks, follow their athletes. It's sad, but that's the reality of the way things are. If the MLS were to expand to Toronto, Vancouver, and Montreal, we'd be becoming a part of that same market and play a role in developing our National team, along with furthering the development of the game in North America.

Now for the completely pro Toronto stance: There are 6-7 million people living in the GTA, making up the 3rd largest media market in North America. 40% of the GTA consists of immigrants, many from countries where soccer is the main sport. The market, and more importantly, the money, exists in Toronto for an MLS team. Frankly, it makes perfect sense to bring the best league there is in North America to a city the size of the Toronto. Vancouver, and Montreal are the other two cities that can support a team, the rest can't.

Oh, and naming the team the Toronto Azzurri is completely ridiculous. I'm hoping that there was no ethnocentrism behind that suggestion, but for some reason I know i'm wrong. Toronto needs a real name, Toronto Unitied, or FC Toronto. We need to have our own identity, not steal one.

 

[::shinji::]

Yes, yes, and yes... I still don't understand why some people won't let go of this Canadian league fantasy. It's been proven that it just wouldn't stay afloat. There isn't one soccer fan in Canada that wouldn't like to see a league flourish, but it's just not economiclly feasable..

I think a great way to generate great attendance to would be for Canadian MLS teams to sign a couple well known internationals, even those near the end of their careers....can you imagine a guy like Batistuta or Zola playing for a Toronto MLS team?

 

[davidcfs]

Sad thing is everyone thinks we are not rich enough to have our own soccer league. I am just hopping for one Albertan oil companys owner to be a huge soccer fan and once their industry explodes it can hopefully push a league to Canada. I would go to MLS games if we had a team but in all honesty I am not a big fan of the MLS coming to Canada.

 

[Bobby]

What the Lynx play isn't soccer, it's a version of long-ball hailmary's hoping for the defense to screw up and get a break away. Watching that crap is as entertaining as watching paint dry.

My kind of football

 

[bigp]

Sad thing is everyone thinks we are not rich enough to have our own soccer league. I am just hopping for one Albertan oil companys owner to be a huge soccer fan and once their industry explodes it can hopefully push a league to Canada. I would go to MLS games if we had a team but in all honesty I am not a big fan of the MLS coming to Canada.

It doesn't matter if there are plenty of rich people in Canada. They don't want to throw money into a league that won't make money. It's a business decision.

 

[::shinji::]

no kidding, like who pays for the stadiums, the staff, the players, etc, etc...some rich guy who likes soccer is gonna pay all this from his own pocket? lol Nobody is going to drop a nickel into some league idea that'll generate f*ck all revenue..

uhh, yeah, that's not how the world works..

 

[davidcfs]

no kidding, like who pays for the stadiums, the staff, the players, etc, etc...some rich guy who likes soccer is gonna pay all this from his own pocket? lol Nobody is going to drop a nickel into some league idea that'll generate f*ck all revenue..

uhh, yeah, that's not how the world works..

Tell it to chelsea.

Hell tell it to Microsoft. They lost so much money with the Xbox but are now starting to make so much money from it. That is busniess, being able to take a loss to put your foot in the door.

I know how the world works please don't try to make it seem as if I suffer from a mental retardation.

 

[::shinji::]

what the? You're comparing Chelsea and the Xbox to a Canadian Soccer league? Chelsea is a historic premier league club that already had a huge worldwide fan base, it wasn't a new venture. Ambramovich fronts a lot of money for players but how long do you think Chelsea would survive if nobody went to the games or bought merchandise? Do you have any idea what kind of overhead is involved with something like that? Besides, you don't even need any prior market research to know a league in Canada would be a bad investment, even for a city like Toronto it would still be risky nevermind investing millions on a soccer team in like Calgary!? Btw, when the CSL began back in the 80's, Calgary was the first to fold, their games drew like 100 spectators after the first game. The league which was supposed to be this great new Canadian proffessional soccer league didn't last longer than a couple seasons, and that at a time when soccer was more popular in Canada than it is today since our NT used to actually win games then and even qualified for the WC.

 

[davidcfs]

what the? You're comparing Chelsea and the Xbox to a Canadian Soccer league? Chelsea is a historic premier league club that already had a huge worldwide fan base, it wasn't a new venture. Ambramovich fronts a lot of money for players but how long do you think Chelsea would survive if nobody went to the games or bought merchandise? Do you have any idea what kind of overhead is involved with something like that? Besides, you don't even need any prior market research to know a league in Canada would be a bad investment, even for a city like Toronto it would still be risky nevermind investing millions on a soccer team in like Calgary!? Btw, when the CSL began back in the 80's, Calgary was the first to fold, their games drew like 100 spectators after the first game. The league which was supposed to be this great new Canadian proffessional soccer league didn't last longer than a couple seasons, and that at a time when soccer was more popular in Canada than it is today since our NT used to actually win games then and even qualified for the WC.

I wasn't around the time the CSL was up and running but what I want to know was it advertised? Did it have any hint of sucsess in other teams? The problem with soccer in Toronto is its not advertised at all which is stupid as I am getting tired of these fans who are soooo attachted to their european club but yet cant cough up a measily 15 bucks to watch Toronto's team play. Its sad, you want good soccer? Start investing in the company but people fail to realize that.

I bring xbox in to this because it indeed is a sign of how to take loss for the bring of future gain. Was there really another market that could open up with the xbox, there was already the PS2 and the GCN but they did it anyway and through proper advertising they managed to make a profit out of it and will continue to do so in the future. You say there is no market it in Canada? I say bring the fans what they want and they will come and they will come in great numbers especially if you show them how to get there.

 

[kickin_kyle]

what if instead of a national league we made a regional league(prairies, ontario, atlantic for example) and then had the winners play in a CL type of competition. the teams might not be top class at first but it's a start. and you could have multiple teams in a city like toronto; like Danforth Hellas, East End Celtic, Woodbridge Azzuri, and FC Markham? the regional idea limits the travel costs big time. not a totally sound idea but i thought it up while cutting the lawn

 

[SnYper]

This thread is sinking in the toilet with these lame ideas of a Canadian league. Shinji seems to be the only one who grasps the economics of soccer in a country like Canada.

Bringing up Chelsea and Xbox is retarded. First of all, Chelsea played in front of a packed Stamford Bridge before Abramovich even arrived. Their season ticket holder base is greater than anything you'll ever see for a Canadian team and the revenue they gain from sponsorship and TV is ridiculous to compare. There is no way you can contrast the idea of a Canadian league and a top flight EPL team. I'm not going to even get into XBox because Microsoft is a publicly traded company and they are subject to a lot of different conditions that work in their favour.

No sane businessman will pour millions out of his own pocket into a league that WILL fail, and won't EVER draw the attendances, TV revenue, or sponsorship needed to get anywhere near turning a profit.

MLSE will be the group to bring the MLS to Toronto, the problem with them is they NEVER want to pay for the facility. They're doing it with Marlies and the Ricoh Colisseum, and they did it with the Leafs by stepping in to move them to the ACC. They want the tax-payers to foot the bill, and it looks like they'll get there wish soon. Just for the record, MLSE are a bunch of retards, but if that's what it takes to bring the MLS to Toronto i'll be glad.

Now let's end this discussion and talk about how sad our U-20 team is, and how bad it's looking for 2007 when Canada hosts this very tournament.

 

[Mikey]

a league in Canada would fail. The only way it might survive was if it came after we hosted the World Cup (like US in 94') and than building on that sucess. And since the chances of Canada hosting WC any time soon are as remote as me scoring with Carmen Electra, i think we should just move on.

I didnt expect anything from Canada against Columbia or Italy, but they shouldve beat Syria.

 

[kickin_kyle]

Now let's end this discussion and talk about how sad our U-20 team is, and how bad it's looking for 2007 when Canada hosts this very tournament.

apart from Ryan Gyaki and maybe David Edgar none of them seem to be any good.

 

[Mikey]

Roster For Gold Cup

1 Greg Sutton GK Montreal Impact, USL First Division 4/19/77 2 2
33 Mike Franks GK Vancouver Whitecaps, USL First Division 4/27/77 0 0
2 Adam Braz D Montreal Impact, USL First Division 6/7/81 1 0
3 Chris Pozniak D Haugesund, Norwegian Second Division 1/10/81 12 0
4 Kevin McKenna D Energie Cottbus, German Bundesliga 2 1/21/80 27 8
5 Gabriel Gervais D Montreal Impact, USL First Division 9/18/76 4 0
6 Patrice Bernier M Tromso, Norwegian Premier 9/23/79 8 0
7 Iain Hume M/F Tranmere Rovers, League One 10/20/83 11 0
8 Adrian Serioux M Millwall, English League Championship 5/12/79 5 0
9 Ali Gerba F Montreal Impact, USL First Division 7/27/82 0 0
10 Olivier Occean F Odd Grenland, Norwegian Premier 10/23/81 9 1
11 Jim Brennan M Norwich City, League Championship 5/8/77 38 5
12 Sandro Grande M Montreal Impact, USL First Division 9/9/77 4 0
13 Atiba Hutchinson D/M Helsingborg, Swedish Premier 2/8/83 12 1
14 Dwayne de Rosario M/F San Jose Earthquakes, MLS 5/15/78 29 7
15 Josh Simpson D/M Millwall, League Championship 5/15/83 7 0
16 Patrick Leduc M Montreal Impact, USL First Division 12/26/77 0 0
17 Jaime Peters M Ipswich Town, League Championship 5/4/87 7 0
18 Rhian Dodds M Kilmarnock, Scottish Premier 10/3/79 0 0

Players also on the 23-man roster and eligible for the Gold Cup
19 Nevio Pizzolitto D Montreal Impact, USL First Division 8/26/76 9 0
20 Will Johnson F Chicago Fire, MLS 1/21/87 0 0
21 Felix Brillant M/F New England Revolution, MLS 9/9/80 0 0
22 Josh Wagenaar GK Hartwick College, NCAA 2/26/85 0 0

===============================================================

Too bad theres no Stalteri or De Guzman, but at least Occean and especially Hume (our best prospect) will get their big chance. The Montreal Impact is very well represented.

 

[::shinji::]

eek, I have to say I'm not a big fan of Olivier Occean, he's just so one dimensional and not a great finisher by any means, IMO anyway. I'd love to see a Brillant-de Rosario partnership up front, supported by Hume. I think that's the best firepower we can come up with atm..

 

[Rochester Rhino]

1 Greg Sutton GK Montreal Impact, USL First Division 4/19/77 2 2

Will he be starting then?

5 Gabriel Gervais D Montreal Impact, USL First Division 9/18/76 4 0

Rhino reject

9 Ali Gerba F Montreal Impact, USL First Division 7/27/82 0 0

Real good forward, they picked him up right before they played us at home and he ending up beating us.

19 Nevio Pizzolitto D Montreal Impact, USL First Division 8/26/76 9 0

Player I hate the most, cheap shotted one of our players last year during the walk back in through the tunnel at half time, disgraceful.